Eruanneth_Luin
· 26 October 2004
· Chapter 23: The Hidden Valley
Nilmandra,
My heartfelt thanks again for bringing the Second Age (and some of the Third Age) to life.
Arwen and I suffered alike from cliffhanger syndrome, which made the wait for this chapter seem endless.
Foreshadowings every where, with past and present coming together. It makes a greater impact to walk across the lands and through the ruins than just hear the tales. And the men in Tharbad who saw ancient drawings come to life without a hint of age or decay vividly bring to the mind the fact that elves are NOT men.
Perhaps what gets Elrond through his many loses is combined heritage of elf, maia and mortal. Where ever he gets it, he certainly needs it in abundance.
Thank you again for this wonderful tale, that I think would please the heart of Master Tolkien.
Author's reply
Elrond certainly is acquainted with grief, isn't he? Thank you for your wonderful support over the long course of this story - and it thrills me if you think Tolkien would be pleased - if he does not turn over in his grave in disgust, I would be glad!
Dot
· 17 October 2004
· Chapter 23: The Hidden Valley
Phew, I made it before you posted the next one!!
Another amazing chapter. It was tough to read in parts and I imagine tough to write but I guess it’s through the experiences of children that we really see the effect of war. And yay, we finally come to Imladris! What an exciting time.
I really liked the opening with Arwen still feeling the emotion of the previous night’s story. Her sensitivity and deep emotions are such an elfy trait. It seems she’s still learning to see Glorfindel in a new way. Actually, it would be interesting to see their relationship when she’s older. It’d be very different from his relationship with her brothers, yet it would have to move beyond him doting upon her, although he’d still love her as though she were his own. Hmmn.
“Though they would not speak of it, they did agree: it was Erestor who was not the same again.” I know I’ve said it before but I’ve really gained SUCH respect for Erestor. And you really make me just want to give him a great big hug…;-)
“We can take guard shifts by her door! I suspect, however, that in the future, much as now, when Arwen makes up her mind about something, there will be little to deter her.” I’m not even going to comment on that one!!
It must be truly odd for the Men to see these historic figures, some of whose images adorn their walls just walk straight into the city. And it was so fascinating to watch Celebrían, Celeborn and Galadriel walk around their old home. It’s sad to see such a beautiful and thriving place now in ruins and all but forgotten by time but at the same time it’s so wonderful for Celebrían to have this chance to show something of her past to her children and let them see where the tales they have heard took place. It must be quite strange for Elrond to know that he can never revisit Balar and see if he can recapture any memories there because it is lost under the sea. It’s hard to even comprehend that. But that was all so long ago and I hope such thoughts don’t trouble him.
That image of Celeborn crumbling the soot from Celebrimbor’s forge… wow. I wonder what he felt being back to where it all began. He’s already seen some of the effect of Nenya on his wife and must have an inkling of what the future holds if she continues to wield it. As Elrond thinks, he must indeed regret that the rings weren’t destroyed if they had to be forged at all in the first place. It makes me realise just how deep his love for Galadriel is.
“You were just as charming. It was difficult to refuse you anything as a child, and that has not lessened much since you have become such a fine adult.” You know, I really was never much of a Galadriel fan, not in the books and not in the films. But you really do a tremendous job in making her come alive for me and you give her such depth. I particularly love to see the moments where she really is just their grandmother. And it’s always wonderful to see moments of light-heartedness between these characters.
Irritable and stubborn Elrond always makes great reading. He actually makes an excellent leader and tactician too. It must be endlessly interesting to his children to hear of this side of him. I like that he recognised the desperate need of the three grieving children to something of some help and allowed them to participate. And Glorfindel, of course, is fantastic with them. As Elrond made them feel useful, he made them feel that their efforts were worthy of praise. And they really are so amazing. They certainly do work well together.
Elrond sketching the Hidden Valley was such a magical moment. In the midst of all this war and destruction he looks to not just a place that is ‘defensible’, but that is beautiful. Of course I know they find it but still, it really made me *want* them to find it!!
Oh, that image of the children sleeping by Glorfindel, soothed by his touch, was just so incredibly moving. I’m glad they can find comfort and, of course, he willingly offers it where he can. It’s quite touching too to think of Erestor watching Glorfindel as he watches over Elrond. The bonds of love and friendship are clear to see.
Even the idea of a rope bridge makes me cringe, not to mind read about them running back and forth across it. These elves are regular boy scouts. I’d be still sitting a nice safe distance from the edge, wondering what on earth I was going to do next.
Those children! Disobedient, but so very brave. I was on the edge of my seat once the Orc arrows started flying. But what I liked most about this part, I think, is seeing them finally give into their sheer exhaustion and fear and seeing Glorfindel and Celeborn cradle them. It’s a stark reminder that for all their courage, these are still children who should never even have to imagine such events, not even in play. It brought tears to my eyes to see Celeborn sitting silently next to Eirien’s mother, holding her hand. Mostly I’m glad that she has been shocked into awakening from her stupor even though it is in such a horrific way but she’s going to need the support now of those around her. How generous of first Elrond and now Celeborn to offer her some comfort. Although, it doesn’t take much to realise that Celeborn is probably thinking of his own cherished daughter and her beloved mother.
Ah, and Erestor finds Imladris! What a spectacular moment. I could really feel a sense of wonder and awe. And yes, I gave a little cheer…!
How absolutely wonderful that the three children went on to find a good life in Imladris. Athranen and Angren are obviously of some importance – I’m guessing Glorfindel trained them to see that obedience is just as important as skill in a warrior! – and I’m so happy that Athranen and Eirien found happiness together.
“As Imladris settled and children were born, it was to the giant golden haired warrior they flocked; him they wished to hear sing; him the young males emulated and from whom the young females learned how they should be treated by a courtly elf.” That’s so beautiful, Nilmandra. I don’t think a better thing could be said about anyone. Glorfindel is all these things, yet he remains himself, asking for nothing in return except that those whom he loves are safe and happy.
The ending of this chapter was done very well, I thought. Listening to these tales of hardship and bravery, especially when it involves people he knows, it must be difficult for Elladan to just accept the peace that they struggled for and not play his own part in it. But of course, his time will come and most present know that this is inevitable. Still, for now may they experience such horror only through the stories of their elders.
A really great chapter. :-)
Author's reply
Thank you for the wonderful review, Dot. I have not been feeling well and these chapters have been slow in coming, and your kind words came at just the right time to help inspire me to continue.
I am glad you liked the children. Real life stories of the part children have played in times of war and hardship have always humbled me, for their lost innocence and courage, and how they rise to do what is needed. While physically they handled themselves well, the emotional breaking point had to come, and especially for the ellon, being orphans, they need a male figure to hold on to.
Elrond is a fun character to write - I want to make him a quietly strong and confident leader, but one who still gets irritable and angry at times. He is fortunate to have Glorfindel, someone who can speak honestly to him without fear of reproach.
I wanted Erestor to come across as changed, so I am glad he does. The war affected him greatly, and I think when Elrond sails (in my world) Erestor will go with him. I don't think he can stay any longer either.
Thanks again!
LKK
· 5 October 2004
· Chapter 23: The Hidden Valley
“Arwen is a beautiful child,” said Elrohir. Then he growled, “I suppose it will take all of us to chase away her suitors as she comes of age.”
Elrond laughed. “We can take guard shifts by her door! I suspect, however, that in the future, much as now, when Arwen makes up her mind about something, there will be little to deter her.” Truer words were never spoken, Elrond. I doubt he would have been so flippant had Elrond known just who Arwen would make up her mind for. :(
I liked the story of how the young ones aided in the elves' retreat. I can picture the twins and Arwen behaving in a similar way should the need arise. Although Erestor claims Glorfindel was changed after the hit on the head, I don't think so. I think the golden-haired warrior was always like that, but up until then, had no opportunity to demonstrate that facet of his personality. :)
Author's reply
I am glad you like Glorfindel in his 'uncle' role - I really did mean to have the children attach on to Elrond, but they wouldn't take their eyes off of Glorfindel! I think it must be the light of Valinor shining in him - it attracts them like moths to the flame. :-)
Elenluin
· 5 October 2004
· Chapter 23: The Hidden Valley
I've been reading your 'history lessons' for a while now, and thought it was time to tell you that they are magnificently told :D You are so good in characterising Elrond and the others, as a reader, you almost seem to know them... The innocence of Glorfindel, the fact that you can just feel that Elrond has been through a lot, although it is not always explicitly mentioned... I hope that there are many more stories to be told!
Author's reply
Hello Elenluin - thanks for leaving the note! Its always wonderful to hear from a reader for the first time. I am glad you like the stories and the characterizations. And there are always more stories to be told, more people of Middle-earth to meet. :-)
Bodkin
· 5 October 2004
· Chapter 23: The Hidden Valley
Brilliant, just brilliant. I love all these elves - they are so noble and loving and . . . all the things elves should be.
Arwen's concern for Elrond is so touching, as is her new view of Glorfindel (I think the jealousy monster is effectively killed off there). I'm with the guard of Tharbad in being enchanted by her. And I agree with Elrond that Celeborn is responsible for this - Galadriel, Celebrian and Arwen - what a combination! (Mind you, Celeborn and Elrond are not without input into the younger two.) The determination to get her own way seems part of her inheritance, as well. Even here, thoughts of Estel, mortality and eternal division are not far away.
I can see Elladan (particularly) and Elrohir listening to this with the kind of half-envy that boys get when hearing tales of battle and honour, but what a nasty twist with the reader knowing so much of what all of these characters will have to endure. The introduction of the young elves - and Arthranen's words - make it so clear how valuable is the opportunity for a childhood of innocent safety. And Glorfindel makes a superb substitute adar.
It was fascinating watching them investigating the ruins of Ost-in-Edhil - it seems bizarre to be able to go back and see a former home ruined by time. The destruction of war is at least quick, but the weathering of the years cuts them off from somewhere that meant a lot to them. I wonder if Elrond's inability to go back is worse or not. (I don't think I'm being very coherent here.) Sometimes going back is not such a good thing. (I feel that with Galadriel and Aman, really - exiles can yearn for home, only to find that when they get there, it is no longer home. Water cannot pass under the same bridge twice, and all that.)
(By the way - 'French Calvary School' - I think it's Cavalry.)
The way Elrond and Glorfindel feel about Erestor and his initiation into the hideous world of war is beautiful - even after all this time, they still grieve over it. And even there is the foreshadowing of grief to come. Poor Elrond. The Valar were really mean in their treatment of that elf. Whatever good happened to him seemed to be only in preparation for another kick in the teeth. It is a good thing that he had the first part of the Third Age to be happy. In Rivendell. Which they have now found.
Brilliant.
Author's reply
I agree about poor Elrond. He could hold on to nothing too tightly in that world, because it was ll eventually ripped from his hands. I do like writing him at times of happiness. I was not sure if him never seeing Balar again was a good or bad thing - I was thinking worse, because again there is no chance for goodbye. Celebrian can hold a stone, remember a river or the way the sun rose over the mountains - and these things can recall cherished memories. Elrond doesn't have that - the island is gone, only his memory remains.
Glorfindel did make a good foster adar, didn't he? I had honestly intended for the kids to glomp on to Elrond, maybe in recognition of another orphan, but the kids couldn't keep their eyes off of Glorfindel. :-)
daw the minstrel
· 4 October 2004
· Chapter 23: The Hidden Valley
The three things I liked best about this chapter were
The finding of the valley of Imladris -- I thought that was exciting! It was like seeing history at work. We know what Imladris meant for millennia after this, so to see it being found was just thrilling. Go Erestor!
The inclusion of the children -- their presence showed something about how horrible the war was without you having to belabor the point. Also I liked the way Glorfindel took them on and cared for them, and then they turned up as adults in the camp. Cool.
The visit to Celebrian's childhood home -- and the sad reminder that Elrond couldn't do that. I think most kids would find it fun to see their mother's home town. I was thinking too about how there's more of the ruins here at the start of the Third Age than there will be when the Fellowship goes through thousands of years later.
Author's reply
Thanks - I am glad the children came across well. I have read so many accounts of how courageous children are in terrible situations, and decided this story needed some heroic elflings.
Seeing your home amdist ruins would be hard...but I can't imagine what its like to have the land physically gone - poof! nothing left. See kids, there used to be a huge land west of Lindon but the Valar sank it....it must be like us hearing tales of Atlantis.
meckinock
· 4 October 2004
· Chapter 23: The Hidden Valley
Elrond laughed. “We can take guard shifts by her door! I suspect, however, that in the future, much as now, when Arwen makes up her mind about something, there will be little to deter her.”
Oh, yeah. Now he laughs.
This chapter was so bittersweet in a way, because once again it spotlights Elrond in a freeze-frame of rare happiness. The ruins of Ost-in-Edhil lie beneath his feet and the grief and loss of the future hover somewhere in the distance, but for this moment he is safe and joyful in the love of his family. It's a testament to his strength that he will somehow recover after Celebrian's suffering and departure. And let's not even get into the whole Arwen mess. Tolkien put a lot onto this guy's shoulders, for sure. It's nice to see him happy.
Glorfindel is such a mensch, as usual, not only looking after poor, beat-up Elrond but finding some lost urchins to foster as well. The children were so brave and resourceful. And Erestor steals the whole show. I really enjoyed seeing the first glimpse of Imladris through his eyes.
Author's reply
I am glad you like my Erestor and Glorfindel - two very compassionate elves who react quite differently. I was trying to figure out what different perspective a reborn/re-embodied elf has on the world...and Tolkien says they regained their innocence. Seemed to me that someone like that would relate well to children :-)
And I like to give Elrond some happy moments, poor guy. And why is it that anything you write showing happiness for him ends up having some foreboding to it? He sure does get whacked on.
The Karenator
· 4 October 2004
· Chapter 23: The Hidden Valley
I've enjoyed every chapter of this tale, but this one seems to be my favorite. However, I do reserve the right to have more favorites. :>) I'm not sure exactly why I've singled this one out, but as I thought about it, I think it's the complex escape, and the introduction of the three children. These three were wonderful additions. It's funny how in the face of such danger and the scramble to survive, the children adapted so quickly, but they were still children. You did a very nice job of balancing the 'street wise kid' with the ordinary kid.
The finding of Imladris was fascinating. I think that ring Elrond has will come in handy after all. Your description was wonderful. Very visual.
Your characters continue to be a gold mine. I feel like a new vein is uncovered in each chapter. And now we know what happened when Glorfindel got whacked on the head.... :>)
Very, very good, Nilmandra. Just wonderful. I look forward to another installment.
Karen
Author's reply
Thanks, Karen :-) I feel like each time I start to write the next story, since these are really a bunch of smaller stories woven together, I uncover another vein of gold. Its why writing them takes so long! (poor daw, this chapter was 10,000 words!).
I am glad the children came through well - I was so moved by the real life stories I read - and they had that quality too - the kids did do heroic and brave things..but they were still children. Glorfindel seemed to know that - but then, as a reborn/re-embodied elf he has regained the innocence like he had in childhood too. Perhaps he relates.
Next chapter: The siege of Imladris, the arrival of Numenor and Gilgalad - and Elrond meets Celebrian :d
Creashuns
· 4 October 2004
· Chapter 23: The Hidden Valley
This is quite possibly the best series on the web -
Quality stories are so hard to find + this is one of them!!
Thank you so much for sharing it with us. I do hope that it's not even close to being over!!
Creashuns
Author's reply
*blushes* Thank you - I am glad you like it. We have a bit more to cover - not a lot of chapters, maybe, but they will be long and cover much. :-)
Nikara
· 4 October 2004
· Chapter 23: The Hidden Valley
Wow! That was a very creative and very realistic way of looking at the founding of Rivendell. The only suggestion I have is with this line- "Children killed before their parents; parents forced to watch their children slaughtered before them. " I think you mean parents killed before their children. Great job!
Author's reply
I changed that line several times, but I think you are right- I confused myself! I will fix it later. I am glad you liked the search for Rivendell.
paranoidangel
· 4 October 2004
· Chapter 23: The Hidden Valley
I was just thinking I'd quite like to read a new chapter of History Lessons and then there one is! I especially liked Celebrian going through the ruins of her old home - it hadn't occured to me that they'd be close by. And of course Athranen and Elrond are right to tell Elladan 'careful what you wish for'.
Author's reply
Thanks, Nic - and Elladan should be careful what he wishes for. Why is it that with Elrond's family, everything you write and say can be taken in a foreboding way? Poor elf.
Jay of Lasgalen
· 4 October 2004
· Chapter 23: The Hidden Valley
The tale of the three children was very good - I liked their courage, resilience and resourcefulness. I was terrified that they may be injured during the retreat, so it was very nice to see them all grown up in the 'present day' tale. I love the way they flocked to Glorfindel, just as the twins are drawn to him as well.
Jay
Author's reply
I am glad you liked the children - it seems the common thing in literature is to make the children smarter than the adults, more resourceful etc - and I wanted them to come through very real - brave and courageous, but still children.
Daw and I were talking about what would draw children to Glorfindel - and I think perhaps its the innocence he regained after leaving Mandos's Halls - maybe they understand each other. :-)
Karri
· 4 October 2004
· Chapter 23: The Hidden Valley
A wonderfully woven chapter, as can always be exected from you, Nilmandra. Arwen's anguish over her father's injury long-recovered from was charming. And I have quite thoroughly fallen in love with both your Glorfindel and your Erestor. Both were as endearing and enchanting as ever in this chapter.
Author's reply
I love Glorfindel and Erestor too! They are really very much alike, yet how they come across can be quite different. My heart actually breaks for Erestor and how much this war changed him.
hmm.......inbox *still* empty....
LKK
· 29 September 2004
· Chapter 22: War in Eregion Part IV: The Fall of Eregion
“Your sons are not aware that two of the Three are present on this trip,” stated Glorfindel softly.
“They are not,” replied Elrond. “They are not aware of them at all. For now, I prefer they not have this knowledge.”
Those sentences caught my attention this morning. The children were told that Celebrimbor gave one of the Three to Galadriel when he realized that the rings were in danger. I'm surprised that none of the children have asked yet what their grandmother did with it. They're very inquisitive and clever souls. I'm sure one of them would eventually wonder.
Author's reply
LOL - yes, sometimes parents believe what they want to believe!! I think you are right that the twins, at least, have thought much about this. :-)
LKK
· 28 September 2004
· Chapter 22: War in Eregion Part IV: The Fall of Eregion
The first time I read this, I only had time to read the Third Age parts. Now, with more time available, I was able to read the battles in the Second Age. Ai! What descriptions you gave me! I was able to see, hear, and feel the fight, the weariness, and the despair. So well done, Nilmandra. You have left me with a deep sense of sorrow. Do you think the golden song bird would be willing to harp for me?
Author's reply
I will send Glorfindel to you immediately. I think sorrowful is a good word to use to describe the elves. Their long lives were in many ways a hardship to them, to have to live with the undending cycles of war and grief and suffering.
The Karenator
· 18 September 2004
· Chapter 22: War in Eregion Part IV: The Fall of Eregion
Nilmandra,
I'm sorry I'm so far behind in reviewing, but I hope it'll be a nice surprise to get a review after all the flurry of a new chapter has died down.
The journey home has certainly gotten better. Elrohir is getting back to his old self and Arwen is keeping him entertained with 'doing his hair'. What a hoot! She has given a whole new meaning to 'hat hair'. Nothing like humbling a warrior with a few ribbons either.
The way you have described Elrond's reaction to the new sensations of carrying Vilya were great. He is truly fighting a 'new war' with himself and the consequences of this burden. I really like Glorfindel's reminder to him about not becoming too attached to the ring. And I thought Elrond's reaction of gratitude to his friend was an indication that he is indeed capable of wielding such a ring of power. A separation of ego and intent, I guess.
I'm also enjoying how you have fleshed out Erestor. I don't think I've ever had any kind of sense about him and you've given him such a well rounded personality that he's easy to grasp. I find him to be a delightfully complex guy. I really like that.
The battle scenes were extraordinary. I can't get over what a great job you've done with details and having it all tie in as it should. I have trouble just telling north from south and you've made it all sound so fluid and logical. I've really enjoyed reading the story the 'elders' are telling. It's exciting and heartbreaking all at the same time.
I'm looking forward to your next chapter. It's always such a treat to find that little notice in my mailbox.
Karen
Author's reply
Ah, you are no further behind in reviewing than I am in writing. The next chapter is about 2/3 of the way - slowly getting there.
I am glad you liked Elrond's experience with Vilya. What a place to have it come alive, and I think he did have to learn to wield it. Any 'weapon' or tool such as this, in untrained hands could wreak havoc.
I am writing more Erestor this chapter, and I hope it further makes him into the Erestor we see now. Battle has to scar everyone in some way, but the scars are different. My heart actually breaks for him!
Ellie
· 10 September 2004
· Chapter 22: War in Eregion Part IV: The Fall of Eregion
This was a most excellent chapter. Very well done! I can't wait for more!
Author's reply
Thanks, Ellie - it was a bear, so I am glad you thought it was well done!
Dot
· 9 September 2004
· Chapter 22: War in Eregion Part IV: The Fall of Eregion
Wow. What a chapter. AMAZING!
Where to start? You did a great job with Elrond. On one hand, he’s the relieved father whose son is finally free from pain but then he also can’t help but be suspicious of the power that aided Elrohir’s recovery and thus feel a little intrigued by the ring nestled in that pouch he carries. It’s interesting that Galadriel was the first to use one of the rings – and thereby almost making it alright for Elrond to want to use Vilya – but I think what appealed to me about the situation is that she uses it out of nothing more than a desire to ease the pain of a loved one. I wonder if she knew what a sacrifice she was making. I hadn’t thought before about the Three awakening because the time was right. I love the way even Elrond doesn’t seem to fully understand this thing that he bears. I get the impression too that if Vilya was sensing anything it’s his curiosity and the beginning of a desire to wield it, to allow it to do all the good it’s capable of.
Glorfindel is so wise. After all he has seen it must be too clear to him what the Rings could do to those who possess them. Or what could happen should others covet them. How painful for him to know that even someone he respects so much seems to be influenced by their power. I love that Elrond is willing to listen to him and in turn Glorfindel offers friendship and understanding.
LOL at the creative hair-styling! It’s so wonderful to see Elrohir in good spirits again. And it makes me smile that his children can ease any worries that trouble Elrond.
Oh, I do love your Erestor. Erestor now and back then seem at first almost as though they can’t be the same person but really, it’s obvious that what he did and saw have made him what he is now. He seems to be the ideal scout, almost invisible and completely courageous. I can’t believe he slipped so easily into Celeborn’s tent! And he’s so good with Celeborn, knowing immediately how to handle him – he shows no fear and even his concern is expressed in a very practical manner. You almost broke my heart with Celeborn, by the way! It really drove the horror of the situation home to see such a powerful and proud elf so weary, injured and verging on despair.
I have to say, you did the battle scenes so well. I admit that strategy is generally beyond me and I tend to skim over battle scenes but here I actually felt like I knew what was going on, who was where and why! I thought the little human moments you included were so touching, like the father who loses his son and then sets out to protect the son’s age mates and another father sending his son away to look after the refugees so that he would be away from the fighting.
You wicked woman, having first Glorfindel and then Elrond fall! For a second it didn’t matter that I knew they both survived – my heart was in my mouth anyway.
I feel so sad for Celebrimbor. I think he genuinely believed in what he was doing and was manipulated so easily only because of this. He didn’t deserve the end that came to him. His last words really show a desire to lessen the harshness of the Doom, to give his people a chance for peace before they have to eventually accept their fate and do feel a weariness with the world. He can be criticised for a lot, of course, but still didn’t deserve the torment he lived in or the way he died. :-(
The ending of this chapter is just so beautiful. The image of Glorfindel stroking Erestor’s hair really touched me. It’s one of those images that I think will stay with me. Erestor may have lost his innocence in all that he has seen but he certainly hasn’t lost his compassion. What pain all of these elves have endured. I’m glad Celeborn offers his wife some comfort. Didn’t Tolkien say somewhere that the use of Nenya awoke the sea-longing in Galadriel? But Celeborn, like Glorfindel, is willing to offer his strength to one he loves, whatever his views on the Rings.
I’m sure everyone tells you how wonderfully you bring this story to life and it certainly helps me to understand events that I would only have a very general knowledge of. I definitely would never have been able to make the connections you do. But I think what I am most in awe of is the depth you give these characters and how it’s through their reactions, thoughts and emotions that the full implications of the events are seen. You always give me something new to think about and help me to see these characters in a new light.
As always, I’m eagerly awaiting more. :-)
P.S. I’m trying to be a more consistent reviewer. Seriously, this time…
Author's reply
Dot, you couldn't have picked a better chapter to review. I truly was concerned that this chapter would not come across well, or that I wasn't clear during the battle scenes or the motives/themes were lost. Your wonderful review relieves me!
It is so interesting to think of what sets Elrond and Galadriel apart from Glorfindel and Celeborn, that the former would use the rings while I sense the latter would not. Its not clear if Gandalf used Narya, but I am sort of inclined to think he did. The ringbearers take risks the others do not, and yet both are *right*. And yet Elrond and Galadriel are very different too - and probably bear the rings for different reasons. Elrond is humble - I do not think he desires power. Galadriel probably no longer desires power as she did in her younger days, yet she is a powerful person. One really has to get at the motivations to know what each person would do with those rings. If entrusted to Glorfindel, would he use the ring? No, because he did not entirely trust himself, or no, because in the end it was futile, or no, because he knew for what purpose he was intended - to protect the ringbearer? All the same answer 'no' yet such different reasons why.
One sees why this chapter took forever to write. Analysis paralysis!
You are correct about the effect Nenya had on Galadriel - Tolkien wrote about that in UT and that was exactly what was happening at the end - whether Glorfindel's song intensified the sea-longing or with Nenya, awakened it - she won't tell me. Galadriel is so dang mysterious about everything. Actually, all of these wise elves are. They point me back to the paper and pen and pat me on the head and tell me things are above me and just to write what they say. *sigh*
I really do appreciate your kind words about this chapter.
Marnie
· 8 September 2004
· Chapter 22: War in Eregion Part IV: The Fall of Eregion
I'm sorry - I ought to say something intelligent, but the presence of distressed, shirtless!Celeborn is making me distracted. When did I become such a fangirl?! That was a treat for me :) But I was very delighted too, to see him given a bit of credit for the defence of Eregion, when the official source is so much more concerned with Celebrimbor's ultimately pointless - indeed (as far as Men and Dwarves go) disastrous 'heroic last stand'.
I didn't expect Glorfindel to get injured though! Somehow he seems untouchable. It really brought it home to me how lucky they were just to get out with their lives. And I liked the fact that he refused to get distracted from his mission of protecting Elrond; that helps explain why such a powerful elven lord is not a more major player in the Third Age.
Seeing the children playing really brought it home to me how impossible it must have been *not* to use the rings. Is it an evil to allow suffering to continue, if you have the power to relieve it? Perhaps, and yet that pity is what Gandalf fears in his own response to the One.
And alas, Glorfindel's song at the end only made me think of how Celeborn must have felt that everything was conspiring to make his wife leave him. First Nenya then Glorfindel. He's not having a good day at all :)
Author's reply
LOL! Marnie, you are the quintessential Celeborn fangirl! I am glad he came across well, for the whole fight for Eregion seemed so hopeless that whoever led her defense had to be noble and selfless.
Celebrimbor's stand was pointless, wasn't it? I did fell some pity for him, though, after it occurred to me that if you look at his hopes for the Three Elven rings, they did seem to be counters to the Curse and Doom - and while pointless to try to overcome them, I think he did intend good. But then, I try to think the best of people and sometimes I am, unfortunately, wrong.
And Glorfindel just got whapped on the head. HE was fine; assured me that his noggin is pretty thick and no serious injury was done :D.
At the end, I was trying to show the awakening of the sea longing - how Glorfindel's song must have intensified or even awakened that in her. Poor Celeborn - he had to have known for some time that she would leave him, for she could only fight that for so long.
Melje
· 6 September 2004
· Chapter 22: War in Eregion Part IV: The Fall of Eregion
Elrond speculates that Vilya is coming to life because Nenya was used, and because it’s time for their bearers to start using the Three. I had another theory, myself: that now that Elrond has seen with his eyes all the good that could come from the use of the ring, he more than ever longs to put it on, and that’s why Vilya makes its presence known with such force: because it has sensed its bearer’s desire. After all, rather than giving evidence of an independent will, so far it has only complied to Elrond’s moods. And the elf looks obsessed, good that he has Glorfindel to keep him grounded. So which is it? Vilya coming to life because it wants to be used by Elrond, or because Elrond wants to use it? I guess the truth lies in between.
I am rather appalled at the lack of security in Celeborn’s camp. Erestor was able to go straight to the tent of the army’s commander, without anyone stopping him. He could have been Sauron himself, or any Elf bribed or blackmailed into trying and killing Celeborn. Those Elven captains might be exausted, but they don’t look to bright, either: first they don’t even realise there’s an intruder in the tent, and then they seem to think it’s no important matter, to the point that they don’t even press him to know how he got there in the first place!
Erestor should really stop that favourite joke of his, to try and surprise trained Elven warriors just for the kick of it. Elladan and that Lothlorien scout from the Third Age were young and naive enough to let him trip them up without so much as a flicker of a reaction (and then, we know about Elladan’s balance issues), and Celeborn on the other hand was experienced enough to check himself before taking Erestor’s head. But some day Erestor will try his trick on someone in between – and Elrond will find himself short of a valuable advisor.
Your description of battle is impressive and must have taken a lot of thinking. You balanced very well the bird’s eye view of the armies clashing and the individual stories of the single soldiers, so the reader can follow the war, but doesn’t forget all the pain and loss and courage involved.
I’m looking forward to read more about Erestor guiding Elrond’s army to Imladris!
Author's reply
Ah, Melje, you saw right to the heart of the matter! Vilya has awakened for a number of reasons, I think, and Elrond's desire surely is one of them. This had to be a frightening yet exciting time for him, as he began to understand what it meant to bear a ring of power.
Yes, Erestor is a bit self confident, isn't he? He is like darkness itself, so stealthy and slick that he can move where none suspect. I wonder if his own skills scare him? He has found soemthing he is very good at, and I wonder how he learned to set his own boundaries as to what he could and could not do?
The chapter was a bear to write - it did take a lot of thinking and trying to relate major events together, give motivation to why characters thought or acted a certain way. I am anxious for them to get to the site where they hold up under siege, so that we can focus less on logistics and more on the people and strategy.
Thanks for your thoughtful comments!
PS I fixed the typo too - thank you!
Nikara
· 6 September 2004
· Chapter 22: War in Eregion Part IV: The Fall of Eregion
That was a very impressive chapter. I can't wait until we get to learn about the founding of Rivendell. That was a great mixture of emotion, action, and explanation. Congratulations!
Author's reply
I am glad you liked it - it was very draining and depressing, to try to think as they might have thought, and seen through their eyes that death was before them. Imladris is next!
Bodkin
· 6 September 2004
· Chapter 22: War in Eregion Part IV: The Fall of Eregion
'Sadness again filled Glorfindel’s eyes. “Things we value too highly can come to own us. Do not let it became of more worth in your eyes than it should.” '
Wise, wise Glorfindel.
'“Remind me as often as you see need,” he said instead. '
I wonder if all the suffering that led to Elrond - (I was going to make a list, but it sums up as pretty well everything nasty that has happened up to this point) - was for the purpose of creating an Elrond who could be powerful but still able to allow others freedom, who could listen - and hear the response. And whether Galadriel would have been able to wield her ring as she did, had she not seen what she had and committed herself to Celeborn.
If a ring had come to Galadriel when she was fresh out of Valinor, before the Kinslayings and the War of Wrath etc, what would she have done with it then?
'Glorfindel nodded. “Such knowledge in anyone close to you could lead them to harm.” '
Poor Celebrian.
The effect of Glorfindel's song is just beautiful. And that it made Galadriel sad, while he became 'proud and joyful and strong, filled with purpose and love'. Does it make a difference that he was sent back? Which suggests that perhaps he was not subject to the Doom.
The battling flows and fits together really well. And I can understand Arwen's reaction. Stories of battles are all very well - but when they include the suffering of your favourite people, it is much harder to endure.
And I feel nothing but sympathy for Celebrimbor (although I wish he could have kept his mouth shut completely). And Celeborn was right - Sauron didn't need many brain cells to work out where the Three were likely to be.
(If the rings have come to life now Nenya has been used, clearly none of them had been used before, despite earlier suspicions.)
This is just such gripping stuff.
Author's reply
Bodkin, I think you have hit on the key point about Elrond. He is the sum of his life's experiences - humbled by all he has lost, yet loved enough to still value others and himself. He truly is gold refined in the fire, with all the dross removed.
Can you imagine had Galadriel come upon the ring of power too soon? I think the Helcaraxe tempered her, then the wars of beleriand and her love for Celeborn. She is a mother now, something else sure to soften a proud heart, and by the time we see her she has grown wise, thank goodness.
I am so glad you caught that while Galadriel was weeping and shining, Glorfindel was indeed full of joy and shining brightly, comforting all. Glorfindel was forgiven and healed in Mandos's Halls, and his innocence returned. He has no regrets. It is an interesting idea to wonder if he was not subject to the curse and doom - if the Valar or Eru himself afforded him some special protection that would keep him from growing weary or being killed. Hmmm.....
I am glad you were able to follow the battle - I draw it all out on maps, which readers don't have the benefit of seeing (not the my drawings are that good!).
My real enlightenment this chapter was tying the curse and doom to why Celebrimbor made the rings. It ties much together, it does make me more sympathetic to Celebrimbor, it gives motive to his actions and makes it personal as well - he hopes to amend the harm done by his father, uncles and grandfather. I haven't seen that done before nor did Tolkien say it, but the language and themes of Tolkien do tie them together in my mind.
I am glad you are enjoying this - its a joy, but this chapter was hard!
meckinock
· 6 September 2004
· Chapter 22: War in Eregion Part IV: The Fall of Eregion
Elrond was silent for a long moment as he stood next to this powerful, re-embodied warrior of the first age. Glorfindel had heard the Doom of the Valar spoken, had seen it come to fruition, and yet had returned to the cursed, fading and weary elves of Middle-earth. Elrond thought of why Celebrimbor had made the rings: to aid in understanding, making and healing, and preserving things unstained. Had his motivations truly been to counter the Curse? Could understanding, making, healing and preserving be turned to evil? Or would these things merely contribute to the final words spoken in their doom, increasing their weariness of life in Middle-earth? He heard the laughter of his children, and as often happened, felt his weariness evaporate, at least for the moment. Under the curse they might live, but Middle-earth was the only home they knew.
“Yet you came back,” he answered as his thoughts returned to the one at his side.
“I am here,” agreed Glorfindel with a merry laugh.
Elrond turned to meet the bright eyes and joyful face, and thought again about the light of Valinor that shone from Glorfindel like a beacon. That Glorfindel was in Middle-earth was proof enough, should he need such a thing, that while the elves who endured here did grow weary with time, they were not forgotten.
Sorry to waste so much space with the recap, Nilmandra, but this one passage highlights so much that was wonderful about this chapter. A deep and warm friendship that spans two ages, an abiding love of family and world and creation itself that struggles with the awareness of evil, a deep yearning for something greater than the unending weariness and toil of Middle Earth, and the forebearance and humor to endure. What a great segue to the action. This story brings the Second Age to life in all its gut-wrenching tragedy and heroism (And dirt. Don't forget the dirt.) It would have been gripping even had the very same heroes of the struggle were not sitting around the campfire telling the tale; but to gain such insight into the past adventures and sacrifices of characters we love so much already was an even more special treat. And shirtless, bleeding Celeborn was a nice touch, too.
Author's reply
You have warmed the cockles of my heart. I actually pity the elves, they lived so long they had to see evil rise and fall, only to rise again - and they really could not escape it except to sail west.
Glad you liked Celeborn. He held out for over a year waiting for help, and so greatly outnumbered it had to be by cunning and wits alone. The arrival of help too late...still breaks my heart to write that.
This chapter was a bear to write. Thank you for taking the time to let me know what you liked about it - I am so glad to know it did make sense and the points I hoped to make were made.
shirebound
· 6 September 2004
· Chapter 22: War in Eregion Part IV: The Fall of Eregion
Amazing, as always. And what a good lesson for us all, Nilmandra: "Things we value too highly can come to own us."
How Galadriel MUST have "longed for home" throughout the Ages. Since I always need to think about "happy endings", I like to imagine her very joyous homecoming at the end of the Third Age for which she had waited for so long.
Author's reply
Tolkien wrote in 'Unfinished Tales' that Nenya awakened the sea longing in Galadriel and she had to contend with it for nearly an age before sailing. That did give me more respect for her, that she held out until the Ring business was over before giving in to what surely was a deep and powerful longing.
I think she was happy to go home, and I am glad that Celeborn did eventually join her. Fortunately for Middle-earth, a ring of power did not come into her possession when she was younger and greedier for power!
daw the minstrel
· 6 September 2004
· Chapter 22: War in Eregion Part IV: The Fall of Eregion
I am so impressed by the way you bring this story to life. In this chapter, I like the glimpses of a different kind of Erestor than we normally see. And then the loyalty of wondrous Glorfindel, and the anguish of Elrond who came too late.
And in the Third Age story, I loved the glorious silliness of Elrohir and Arwen as they do each other's hair. Oh, and I almost forgot! The ring coming alive. Oh my. What a moment.
Author's reply
There is a lot stuffed into this chapter, isn't there? I admit I want the war over because it is so hard to write about. Its good to have some silliness in the third age story - the elflings deserve it and those who are telling their story need it.