Given the destruction of Numenor, she'll be able to reasonably conclude that the vision is fulfilled, and any future depictions are just the mirror showing her the past, as she told Frodo it sometimes does.
Oh - from an author POV - what a brilliant idea! And from a reader POV - gah! No! that's just AWFUL! That is so tragic it doesn't bear thinking about! You are a genius, you know that?
Author's reply
Thanks, Marnie ;)
Adamas
· 4 January 2005
· Chapter 7: Hostage
Thank you for answering my question about the three rings. My hat is off to you! I went back and re-read the section in UT. I have read that a hundred times and I just never focused on that part about the rings. I knew when I was questioning you that you had to have a logical reason. I also went back and read the Silmarillion again. I don't feel that the additional information Tolkien provided in the UT regarding the rings is in conflict with the Silmarillion; it only further clarifies. As for whether the UT can be consider canon… I think that anything Christopher Tolkien has published or written is canon. He is as much a part of Middle-Earth as his father.
As I stated in my earlier review you are very talented as a writer and very canon with Tolkien. I have to ask…are you, by any chance related to Tolkien? Hee, Hee… It is really scary how close your work reflects Tolkien. I have also read your "Wandering History…" I wish I had read that first. This story is clearly following your very well explained outline of Celeborn and Galadriel's travels.
Things I forgot to mention that I really liked, in no particular order…
* Annatar/Sauron and his breeding of the Orcs: He is truly evil incarnate.
* Galadriel's vision/nightmare of the sinking of Numenor: I loved the way Celeborn was described as her anchor. The way you wrote how each traversed different paths. Again this just supports how the two complement each other.
* The way each of the Elven Ringbearers removed the rings once it was discovered that Sauron had deceived them. I noticed this when I re-read the Silmarillion. You wrote it mirroring Tolkien. Masterful
* Celeborn/Galadriel/Sauron confrontation: This was described and dialoged beautify. I like the way you ended with Galadriel's prophesy to the Numenor King and Sauron "I Shall not forget..."
* Again you foreshadow Tolkien's words "We have fought the long defeat…" is reflected in your words from Galadriel; "We have failed again" and her description of what she has seen. The ultimate realization that who can they trust to even seek and destroy the One Ring.
I could go on and on you are truly very talented. There is so much that Tolkien has left for us to continue or branch off, without being contrary to Tolkien's vision. You have once again proven what I have said again and again to many of my fellow fans. Thank you again. I eagerly watch and wait for your next chapter.
Author's reply
I'm glad you thought the explanation held together. Glad too that you like the UT; it is absolutely invaluable to me. ;) And don't I wish I was related to Tolkien ... then I might get some money from all this ...
Thanks so much for your reviews today. I think that the greatest compliment is what you said about continuing Tolkien's vision without being contrary to it. I'm of the opinion that Tolkien wanted to create a living mythology, and would have been delighted by the art, the songs, and yes, the stories that have come from his work.
perelleth
· 4 January 2005
· Chapter 7: Hostage
Hi! Nilmandra recommended this story to me when I bluntly asked her to write a full account of the rest of the 2nd Age in the epilogue to her H.Lessons II. And I'm truly glad she did, for when I saw your update and had the opportunity, I simply started reading… and, wow! here I am. I must confess I had never been much interested in what had happened at the other side of the Misty Mountains, and I have always found it beyond my imagination to even guess what Celeborn and Galadriel might have been doing down there all that time, so removed from where "action" was (even though I suspected they would be carrying "action" alongside, but I could not imagine what kind...)
It is a very detailed work of craft, and so much in character, I'm truly awed.
I’m enjoying every part of it, but I’ll comment some brief points, maybe things that called my attention above others:
I loved the way you portrayed the arrival of Amroth and Durin at the battle of Eregion, and that meeting in the first chapter, when Annatar says something about their hearts betraying them referring to Celebrían and Amroth... it is a very powerful line... it hit me as truly accurate...and a very painful kind of flaws indeed for those proud and selfwilled parents!
I kind of sympathize with Amroth, in the sense that I don’t think being Celeborn and Galadriel’s child is an appealing lot in life!! So I quite understand his need of simpler things, his search for something completely different from his parents’ trade in which he could feel accomplished…! But to desert his people for love! Man! I find it hard to believe! (Do you plan to get to that point btw?) If it was truly so (and not the typical corruption of a tale which is passed along and retold for centuries until it has little to do with the actual fact, as it usually happens with popular tales...) I think he can expect a sound scolding sometime in Valinor! His mother would find it hard to forgive I think!
And your picture of the orc breeding system is… Scary? Creepy? Almost believable? This is evil at his most mechanized, and thus so Sauron’s… gee! (shivers)
So, all in all, I think it is clear I’m enjoying, and looking forward for more! :-)
PS: A little typo: Chapter 7's heading reads Chapter 6... I almost asked for my money back when I got to the end and found there was no "forward" and then went back and checked! ;-)
Author's reply
Thanks for the great review! And it was nice of Nilmandra to recommend the story. I would have loved to see her take on this history as well, but it is rather an exercise in gapfilling. Or gaping-hole filling ;) I'm so pleased that it feels in character.
Glad you enjoyed the line from Sauron about the children. I've always wondered a bit at Amroth and Celebrian. Amroth abandons his post, Celebrian gives in to grief (although she has a good excuse). Given that Annatar lived in Eregion, I figured that their fates had something to do with the fact that Sauron personally knew them, and had reason to hate them all.
I am going to write about Amroth's abdication. In fact, it was Marnie's request for a story about the first appearance of the Balrog in Moria that got this whole thing started. I found I couldn't write the Balrog without Amroth, and I couldn't write Amroth without deciding who the heck he was, and I couldn't write his background without a backstory ... you get the idea. I found I had to write about his life to get to the point where Amroth's fate had emotional resonance, and DF was born ;) And it just keeps growing.
Honestly, the orc breeding scene was not my idea. I think Sauron grabbed the keyboard and wrote it for me. "Creepy" is a good way to put it ;)
Oh, typo fixed. Sorry about that!
I'm so pleased you've enjoyed the story so far, and hope you continue to do so!
Marnie
· 4 January 2005
· Chapter 7: Hostage
I couldn't bear to write a scene where they actually thought about it, but I can't help wondering if Celeborn suspects.
He's already decided that denial is his best strategy :) I think he'd tell himself it wasn't proof. Maybe the trait came from a distant kinsman on the Avari side of the family... which would be bad, but bearable. Thinking about that, and about the orc breeder, puts a different aspect on Finrod's death in Sauron's dungeons, I think. Sauron had intended to keep him alive, but he must have been quite aware that would have been a fate worse than death. It makes that particular story slightly less horrible.
Oh, and I hadn't thought of Galadriel's vision of drowning as tying in with Amroth's death. Gah! Break my heart why don't you! You're definately reaching sublime levels of tragedy in this chapter.
Author's reply
Yeah, I think he'd go with denial. It really is too horrible otherwise. And you're right -- thank heavens Finrod died. My God. Could you imagine?
I just couldn't help it. A vision of Numenor's fate is so close to Amroth's that I just had to slip in something ambiguous. Galadriel isn't going to make the connection either, until it is too late. Given the destruction of Numenor, she'll be able to reasonably conclude that the vision is fulfilled, and any future depictions are just the mirror showing her the past, as she told Frodo it sometimes does.
Bodkin
· 4 January 2005
· Chapter 7: Hostage
On re-reading (again!), I just thought I would add:- the silver haired orcs are a horrible thought. Not so much for themselves, but from the thought of their origin. But even worse, in a way is the orc-breeder -
'This particular breeder was very old, and very fat, for it had never seen the front lines. Smart and vicious, it was part of a very narrow privileged class who oversaw most of the spawning operation. This one had originally been an elf who, after precise torture, had taken to the craft. Sauron suspected that it personally sired a high percentage of the foot soldiers of each generation.'
To imagine an elf so tormented that he breaks and ends up siring orcs is one thing, but one who comes to enjoy the process so much that he contributes to the corruption with such delight is even more horrible.
Author's reply
Y'know, that whole scene just wrote itself. It was Annatar, who was quite excited to tell me about his own genius. Creeped me out, to be honest with you.
I really wanted the whole section to be horrifying on many levels. I knew I wasn't going to write specifically about the progenitor of the silver-haired orcs, who is, of course, Elmo -- Celeborn's granddad. (My little nod to Marnie, 'cause I can't help it.) But I certainly wanted the readers thinking about what monsterous things happen to everyone Sauron touches. In comparison to the poor orc-breeder, I almost think Ar-Pharazon got off easy; after all, he just died.
Thanks again, Bodkin.
Adamas
· 3 January 2005
· Chapter 7: Hostage
Your work was mentioned in another author's reviews, so I decided to check you out. I have read the "Sapphire Aurae" and now this story. I normally do not read fanfiction regarding the elves. Mostly, because I am a devoted Tolkien fan and it really bothers me when writers do not remain true or follow canon with Tolkien's elves. My irritation comes from the fact that I believe that Tolkien wanted the elves to be somewhat above humans - beings of light. Yes, I know the Noldar have very strong tendency to get into many humanistic traits and weakness but for the most part they are superior. Which is why in Jackson's LOR movies Legolas never looks like he's been in a battle while Aragon and the other humans always look like a mess. I am more tolerant with writers who take creative license Tolkien's human characters.
Anyway, the reason I mention all of the above is because I truly enjoyed your work. I sincerely felt that you have not water down the elves, ie Celeborn, Galadriel, Elrond, and the others… I enjoyed completely the balance of power and partnership, as well as the sacrifices you have written in the Celeborn and Galadriel relationship. I like that you have not make either of them overshadow the other. Enjoyed reading in particular the advice Celeborn gave his son Amroth regarding marriage. That scene and the dialog between father and son reminded me of the passage in Tolkien where Galadriel states they (C & G) have fought the long defeat. Your Annatar/Sauron also intrigued me. I really liked your description of him when he had a physical form. I like the way you link each of your chapters to Tolkien by quoting from Tolkien in the beginning. You really are a very talented writer and I have enjoyed reading and re-reading your work. I am looking forward to your next chapter.
A final note regarding the Ringbearers of the three Elven Rings of Power. Narya was given to Cirdan and he in turn gave it to Gandalf. Vilya was given to Gil-galad and in turn he gave to Elrond. You changed the ring assignment in chapter five, was there a reason, which you have not revealed yet?
Thank you again for sharing your talent.
Author's reply
Thank you for your thoughtful review. I'm so pleased that you found my stories worthwhile, particularly if this is not your usual reading. I too believe that Tolkien intended the elves to be better than humans. I do love the elves, but it is always a struggle to write them because of this difference. I always have to think to myself, not "how would I react?" but "how would they?" I'm gratified that it seems to be working.
I'm delighted that a part of the story reminded you of the "long defeat" quote. I've spent a lot of time figuring out how I can connect this story in subtle ways to what Tolkien said; I spend a lot of time in his text trying to get the feel of the moment, and then determine what it would have taken for the characters to get there. The idea of the "long defeat" is one of the central themes I'm trying to weave through all my work.
Thanks for asking the question regarding the rings. I try to get the little details right, because it drives me crazy when I get them wrong. You had me worried, so I double-checked my notes, and I do have canonical justification for my interpretation. If you'll bear with me a moment, I'll explain.
The section I relied on is from the "History of Galadriel and Celeborn" section of the Unfinished Tales, which says: "Celebrimbor followed [Galadriel's] counsel that the Ring of Air and the Ring of Fire should be sent out of Eregion; and he entrusted them to Gil-galad in Lindon." Immediately thereafter, Christopher Tolkien notes that "It is said here that at this time Gil-galad gave Narya, the Red Ring, to Cirdan Lord of the Havens, but later in the narrative there is a marginal note that he kept it himself until he set out for the War of the Last Alliance." Later is the passage we get another quote describing the same events. At the time of the first Council in Imladris, "Gil-galad gave Vilya, the Blue Ring, to Elrond ... but the Ring Ring he kept, until he gave it to Cirdan when he set out from Lindon in the days of the Last Alliance."
Obviously, there are multiple interpretations based on these quotes. Frankly, there is also an argument that the UT isn't strictly canon. However, given how little description we have of the Second Age, it is a close as I can get. My preferred interpretation is that Gil-galad originally received Narya and Vilya. He then gave Vilya to Elrond when he visited after Imladris was founded, and kept Narya until the Last Alliance, when he gave it to Cirdan. Cirdan thereafter gave it to Gandalf. This is, of course, just one possible explanation out of many. You've got to love Tolkien's own internal inconsistency ;)
Thanks again for your great review. I don't often hear from readers outside the usual circle, and so it was an honor to hear from you. I hope I live up to your expectations, and that you continue to enjoy my stories.
Marnie
· 3 January 2005
· Chapter 7: Hostage
Crossing orcs with wargs had not worked, but it had been entertaining to watch them try. LOL! Deary deary me, I was getting too fond of Annatar and I'm glad to have had this chapter's glimpse into his 'arts' to remind me what we're really talking about. I must say that I read this late last night and then lay awake worrying about poor Elmo, and what would have happened if Sauron had actually managed to assemble his battalion of silver-haired orcs, and Celeborn had had to face it. It really hurts much more when you have a name to attach to the individual orc. You shouldn't plague me with these plot bunnies!
Annatar was seriously unmasked this chapter, and now I really hate the smarmy git :) As for Ar-Pharazon, he has it coming, but, yes, the tragedy of the past few days has brought home the full horror of what that king's pride brought on his people. I'm glad you didn't change it; it resonated as a cry of mourning.
I loved the way that Celeborn and Galadriel each came to the same conclusion by their own different methods, and Celeborn's reaction to Galadriel's mirror. It must be unbelievably depressing to be in constant contact with all the terrible things which might just happen in the future. It makes it a lot clearer why Galadriel has just had enough by the end of LotR.
Nice to see Calandil again! I chortled a bit at his 'more than usual'. He is rather irrepressible.
Loved the conversation between the four of them. Annatar's very sinister hinting that he knows all about their children, Celeborn being gagged because he can't find it in himself to speak as fawningly as required, and Galadriel having a good go at it, but ultimately resorting to staring Ar-Pharazon down. Brilliant! And then to have to acknowledge that they can't destroy the Ring even in Sauron's absence because no one trusts anyone else to touch it... Hooray for hobbits!
This was a great chapter!
Author's reply
Thanks for the review, Marnie. I knew you'd pick up on the exact implications of the silver haired orcs. Once the idea struck me, I had to write it, horrifying as it was. It really is disturbing, this idea that the enemy, the orcs, could well be closely related to some of the great elves. I couldn't bear to write a scene where they actually thought about it, but I can't help wondering if Celeborn suspects. You're welcome to that plot bunny, if you'd like ;)
I really wanted to write a scene showing Annatar's twisted evil. Up until now, and even in the books, it is hard to point to actual evil deeds. He could make an argument that he is merely ambitious and misunderstood. Since this is Sauron's last physical appearance in the story, I wanted to make it clear exactly what he really is. Besides, he insisted ;)
I'm glad you thought the allusion to Numenor's fate was appropriate. I really was worried about it, considering the disaster is Asia, but it had to be here. Tragedy by water is going to happen twice in this story, and I needed Galadriel-the-foresighted to get a glimpse of them both, even if she doesn't realize exactly what she's seeing.
Glad you're enjoying the story!
Sphinx
· 2 January 2005
· Chapter 7: Hostage
You know who I liked the most in the chapter. 'Course you do. :D
The silver haired orc was a cunning insertion. Brilliant, though.
Annatar owns my heart. He really does, with the way you wrap yourself around his brain and write him. Not Sauron, not Gorthaur - Annatar. Great orc-speak, even better was the Lord of the Rings.
And this. "I am their gravest enemy. They are my … most annoying detractors." !!!
Celeborn was deservingly snappy, Galadriel was justifiably distraught, and Calandil was good. Love the way you've encoporated him into this.
But...Annatar. 'A Simple Way: Phase II', perhaps? ;)
Author's reply
Glad you picked up on the silver haired orc thing. Once the idea hit me, it was really rather horrifying, but I just had to write it.
Annatar really is fun to write. Which is frightening, but there it is. An Annatar muse. Lovely ;) I'll lend him to you, if you'd like. I want to see a twisted, moody Annatar story from you! Please?
Glad you're enjoying the story, and thanks for the review.
Bodkin
· 2 January 2005
· Chapter 7: Hostage
What an unutterable **** Ar-Pharazon was. Never heard of a Numenorean who more deserved his fate. The only thing that distresses me is that he dragged so many powerless people into disaster and death with him - ordinary soldiers who had no option but to follow his commands, women, children, the slaves rowing his galleys. Actually, it would have been quite amusing to see Ar-Pharazon ending up enslaved by Sauron and forced to spend an age and a half licking his boots. If Sauron wears boots.
I love the image of Celeborn grounded in the present anchoring Galadriel as she plays with her mirror. And it making him bad-tempered.
Poor orcs. Not the world's cutest creatures, but hardly their fault. And the breeding programme certainly makes Sauron's less appealing side clearly apparent, so that the pretty Annatar impression is seen for what it is. As does the Herald standing in his colleague's entrails.
Ar-Whatanidiot isn't really seeking alliance, though - he's seeking domination. But even in the first few minutes, Sauron has already got him where he wanted him, so that he can spew venomous words at Celeborn and Galadriel. (I like Ar-Pharazon patronising Galadriel. Shame they couldn't then spend a short period alone together. Then Sauron could have swept up the remains. It would have saved a lot of trouble.)
And the ultimate weapon remains. But at least they know to keep their hands to themselves.
Great story.
Author's reply
Ar-Pharazon really made some monumental mistakes in all of this. It really is terrible that he pulled all his people down with him. That's next chapter, and it may be a bit grueling to write.
I really wanted to write a scene where Sauron was full-on bad, and where the horror of what he really is would come through. All we've seen of him so far is the suave Annatar scenes, and he could make an argument that he isn't really evil, just ambitious and misunderstood. Even in the books, we don't really see the evil, other than wars. I thought it was about time that we see him for what he really is.
Thanks for the review. Glad you're enjoying the story!
Nilmandra
· 7 December 2004
· Chapter 6: Belfalas Interlude
Ooh, lovely chapter, Bejai, and I am especially glad as I intend on skipping most of this time. I can just refer people over here!
I have been thinking, though, about what threat the elves might have seen of Ar-Pharazon. He wished for the kingship of Middle-earth, and he had the strength to make life miserable for the elves as well. You used the steward at Pelagir well to show the growing threat.
I liked Galadriel's attachment to the sea, and I have wondered too if just having Nenya in her posession would increase her sea-longing (vs actually wielding it). The comparison of Celeborn to the sea was wonderful too - sums up his power, wisdom and tempermental spirit well.
Looking forward to more!
Author's reply
Thanks, Nilmandra. Glad you enjoyed the chapter. The more I get into this time, the more interesting it is, but it sure does involve a lot of the world of men! It has involved much research in the parts of the Silm I always skipped ;)
Ar-Pharazon is certainly going to cause some havoc, both directly and indirectly. In some ways, though, it is better for the elves of Middle Earth that he turned his attention to Valinor instead. Not better for Numenor or his own people, though.
I think that merely keeping ring really did increase her sea longing. There is a line in the UT or Silm somewhere that at least alludes to it. She must have fought it for a long time.
Thanks for the review!
Marnie
· 6 December 2004
· Chapter 6: Belfalas Interlude
Sorry I didn't review this earlier - I've been away from the computer all weekend. Though I did manage to find time to read it 3 times so far :) It's such a good story! I liked the fact that this was a peaceful interlude - after all the battles and angst previously it's nice to see them in what must have been, after all, normal life. I rather like the fact that they fall out of history every now and again - of course they do, no one could sustain a life of as much peril and responsibility as theirs without taking a rest every now and again.
So "But the grind of the years had depleted them both, and more often, they left Celebrían to contend with the burgeoning population and retreated here, to a nameless place, to breathe and rest." is just a great way of putting it, and far more believable than the idea they'd be furiously active every day for thousands of years.
I also like the fact that they've left Celebrian to cope with the Public Relations in Edhellond. With Amroth left in Lorien to become a king's heir they're treating their children much like they treat each other - letting go, helping them to grow into positions of power of their own. A good touch!
And there were so many other lovely touches in this quiet chapter. I loved 'how is the sea? Large? Damp?' LOL!
The scene of Galadriel and brothers finding hundreds of white shells in the tide pools of Valinor reminded me of Elmo finding his one broken star-shell. Something that sets off huge trains of thought.
I loved the maps! It would be nice (for the sake of future historians) if they could be redrawn *and* resurveyed. I laughed at the thought that one of the useful things they'd noted down was the temperament of the forests. How elvish is that!
Great set up of Pelargir. I find the information in UT very confusing, but this has clarified a lot for me.
I loved the description of Amroth and Celeborn 'touched by opposite ends of night', and the fact that they might be great elf lords but they're also still a father and son going 'so when are you going to marry her then?' 'Aw! Dad!'
Their conversation on the subject of love was exceptionally good. Amroth has a point in that love must be more important than many things in your life, or it won't be strong enough to bind you together, but I think Celeborn's right in saying that the idea that it should subsume *everything* is obsession, not love.
'I only pray that in giving Nimrodel everything you are, you do not find that you have lost yourself completely.'
That's very good! Not only foreshadowing, but also true that love can't feed on itself; it needs to be outward looking as well.
Well worth waiting for! Thank you.
Author's reply
Thanks for the great review, Marnie. I really wanted to write an interlude, although I had the hardest time coming up for a plot in this chapter. And there is that very long stretch in canon where they don't get any sort of mention at all. I thought a good explanation might be that they simply WEREN'T doing anything. It would be easy for an immortal to blow off a few centuries, I think.
I left Celebrian in Edhellond on purpose. Glad you saw the "letting go" connection. Also, I think that someone who is going to be Elrond's wife needs some experience in rulership. It will come into play again during the Last Alliance chapter. My plan is to put G and Celebrian in charge of the elven havens during the war, in case things go very badly and the elves have to evacuate Middle Earth. And Celeborn ... well, there needs to be a commander held back behind the lines who has experience covering the flight of refugees. Not that he's going to be happy about it.
Glad you picked on the shells thing. I actually had a few paragraphs written where G told about the shells, and C talked about the star shells and his granddad. I decided that I was being too heavy-handed and cut it, but I'm delighted that you saw the connection.
I just had to have a scene with maps. That map at the beginning of the LotR books an in the back of the Silm is just facinating to me. I started wondering what C's maps might look like, so he showed them to me ;)
I'm glad the discussion between C and Amroth worked. I am trying to see things from Amroth's POV, as difficult as it is for me. (I always just want to grab him by the throat and tell him to get a grip.) But there has to be a reason for what he did. The story's climax is regarding that decision, so I have to get a handle on him, even if it means subjecting my readers to a meandering discussion on the nature of love ;)
Sphinx
· 4 December 2004
· Chapter 6: Belfalas Interlude
I do not have to see Galadriel to love her.
There are no words, really, to express how glad I am that you're back. Longer review later.
Hope everything's fine now. :D Missed this story and you very very much.
Sphinx
Author's reply
Glad you enjoyed it, S. Did you get my email, BTW? A week, week and a half ago?
Bodkin
· 4 December 2004
· Chapter 6: Belfalas Interlude
By the way, I just adored this line -
"Your mother has enough baubles and gifts from her legion of admirers that we could start a market of our own. I am not about to add to them. . . "
It says a lot about C and G's relationship!! (Actually, on reflection, I suppose it could sound bitter and twisted, but not in my ears. Ironic and full of understanding, maybe.)
Author's reply
It could be bitter, but I don't think it was. A subtle dig at Nenya and the fact that everyone who meets his wife falls in love with her, but I think they're both secure enough in their relationship to see the humor in it.
Thanks for the reviews!
Bodkin
· 4 December 2004
· Chapter 6: Belfalas Interlude
What is it about the young that makes them so convinced that they know better? I was rereading and there Celebrian was, telling her mother that she and Celeborn clearly didn't love each other properly because they weren't completely mushy and selfish like Amroth and Nimrodel - and now that love-obsessed and irresponsible elf is saying the same thing!!! Shame he never grew up enough to learn that responsibility and duty and sacrifice are important parts of love, too. Unless you count jumping in the sea. Which I don't.
I love the antiquity of the maps and the changing shape of the land indicating the passage of time. And the tolerance C and G seem to have of each other's peculiarities. The injection of information about Numenor sets the time - I feel rather sorry for Miriel myself, because I don't see that she had any control over events - and I just love it when Galadriel says - "We have fallen out of history, beloved, and I fear those paths will be harder to discover again. The world shifts around us, indeed, and I can scare see what is, much less what could be. It is time to awake, my Lord of the Trees, and find the world again, if it is not too late." - It's almost impossible to imagine a millennium drifting past as you walk along the beach and dip your toes in the water, but, when you think of it, time could pass in no other way for an elf who has been around since before Arda started counting the days.
Really happy to see this - and looking forward to more.
Author's reply
The story of Amroth makes me crazy, quite frankly, in much the same way as Luthien and Beren, or Romeo and Juliet. Although they have the kind of frenzied, passionate love that makes for good songs, there is just something that tells me that C&G's love is deeper. It is one thing to die for love. It is something else to hang on and live through the rough times.
I'm glad the sense of time came through. From about the mid-second age to well into the third, there is absolutely NO mention of C&G at all. Now, I can make a good-faith argument that they were involved in the events happening right on their doorstep, like Sauron being taken to Numenor, Isildur washing up in the Bay of Belfalas, and the Last Alliance. But there was this 1000 year or so stretch where I couldn't think of a darn thing for them to do. And then I though: maybe they DIDN'T do anything. I've lost days and days of time to procrastination and apathy. Wouldn't it be easy for an immortal to blow off a few centuries?
daw the minstrel
· 3 December 2004
· Chapter 6: Belfalas Interlude
I love the sense of the sweep of time here, Bejai. Even the land changes. And you manage to make your elves real but leave them elfy. Amroth is such a sad figure, although, frankly, I can't help but think he's a fool and an irresponsible one at that. His poor parents. This is one of those times when one wouldn't want the gift of foresight.
Author's reply
I have trouble with Amroth, in the same way I have trouble with Romeo and Juliet. I always want to shake them and scream at them to GET a GRIP! I'm doing my best to let Amroth explain himself, but it really is hard.
Thanks for the review!
Sphinx
· 7 October 2004
· Chapter 5: The Three
Ah. So now it becomes even more interesting. :) So very good to have this story back!
I think what intrigued me most about Sapphire Aurae was the Vilya undercurrent. And that's filtering through here as well, although nicely confirming to the theme - which is obviously different from that of SA.
The page/messenger was a very observant chap. Polite, as well. One can imagine Celeborn being a most interesting message-boy, if he had been one to Elu.
The flashback was fun to read for various reasons. One, that it showed how usually intelligent species who have lived for a couple of thousand years act like imbeciles. Second, it set the stage for the fireworks to begin. I might not agree with Erenion's character wholly here, but Cirdan's interruption was beautifully personal. I loved the "Telpe" part.
It will be very interesting to see how you bring Amroth back into this. And may I beg for Annatar? You do him so well. :)
*leaps around* You're backkk.
Author's reply
Thanks, S. Glad you enjoyed the chapter. They were all acting a bit like imbeciles, weren't they? Not the best of days for the elves.
Amroth is coming back next chapter. I think, after all this tension, we need a bit of an interlude. And Annatar will be back in two or three chapters -- one more confrontation with C&G before he heads off to ruin Numeneor. Should be, ahh, exciting.
Thanks for the review!
daw the minstrel
· 5 October 2004
· Chapter 5: The Three
Fascinating look at how these strong elves reacted to and reasoned about the Three. I felt sorry for Celeborn. No one listened to him. And yet I think in the long run, he was wrong.
Author's reply
Thanks, daw. I do agree that things probably would have been worse without the ring. Maybe no Rivendell or Lothlorien for Frodo to rest in, and what would have happened to Frodo then? But oh, it would have been an agonizing decision at this point!
Nilmandra
· 5 October 2004
· Chapter 5: The Three
Well done elf bickering - how tense that must have been, and how alone Celeborn must have felt? He alone (though I agree he spoke for the others not present) would destroy them. Even Cirdan sees that they have furhter purpose. Their argument was tense and physical - and I could see Erienion and Celeborn coming to blows, even.
Such a hard argument, for I think they are all right, in the end. The Three may have been use for great good at the right time....aiding Gandalf, protecting the heirs of Isildur, holding Dol Guldur at bay....and yet all the ringbearers spent much of themselves in wielding them and in the end all of it decayed. Personally, they would have been better off without them.
Your writing still wows me, Bejai.
Author's reply
Thanks Nilmadra. Glad you enjoyed the bickering. I wanted a tense, almost physical scene. You are actually the one who inspired me to get the chapter up -- you're about to lap me in History Lessons, and it makes me feel mildly guilty that you get three or four chapters up for my one ;)
Bodkin
· 5 October 2004
· Chapter 5: The Three
What a day - History Lessons AND Deific Flame. Lots of pleasure in one go.
Elrond and Celebrian getting close - good, Elrond needs his own family. I love the way the page adjusted Celeborn's message to make it more tactful. And that both Celebrian and Elrond knew exactly what the original would have been. It is rather amusing to see him treating the lord of Imladris as a dilatory elfling.
It must be - disconcerting, to say the least, to see your long dead brother's face in a endless stream of his descendants.
Hard for them to explain away the existence of the rings - good to see Galadriel being smooth, but the Nine and the Wraiths are hard to get past. You can see why the elves felt even more obligated to fight Sauron.
And the Three might not have the evil overtones of the other rings, but they sure as sunrise aren't wholly harmless either - look at the response of Galadriel and Gil-Galad to the idea of disposing of them. Is Celeborn right? Quien sabe! It's a difficult decision - did they make things better or worse? Help the fight or hinder it? They were well-meant, but does that make them well-meaning?
Celeborn knew it for truth when Galadriel said that Celebrimbor would not have betrayed her - but Sauron is not so dumb that he wouldn't be able to work out the whereabouts of at least two of the rings. She and Gil-Galad do stand out as recipients.
Another great chapter.
Author's reply
Thanks for the review, Bodkin. So glad you enjoyed the chapter!
I think treating Elrond as a "dilatory elfling" is one of the reasons C&G need to get out of Imladris. Time to let Elrond have a go on his own. And you're right -- the Three aren't evil, but they certainly do have influence. Celeborn proved that!
Nilmandra
· 13 August 2004
· Chapter 4: The Nine
Superb, Bejai! First, I hope your ankle is healing well. Elrohir sends you his condolences.
You show Annatar as evil and powerful, and the desire of the man perfectly. I appreciated the vey witty dialogue between Galador and Calandil too - Calandil gives a good example of 'go not to the elves for advice, for they say both yea and nay'
I like Celeborn's immediate recognition of the nine as well. He knows, and he is saddened for even with the warning will not be heeded.
Glad your muses have returned and looking forward to more!
Author's reply
Thanks, Nilmandra. I must admit, when Elrohir was healed in the last chapter of History Lessons, I was a bit jealous. Would almost be worth having Galadriel pull out Nenya, if it means I could walk again. Almost ;)
I'm glad you enjoyed the Sauron moment. The guy is quite fun to write at this point in his career. I'm having way too much fun with him. And I'm glad you picked up on the "for the say both yea and nay" thing. That was exactly what I was thinking.
Thanks so much for the review!
Marnie
· 13 August 2004
· Chapter 4: The Nine
LOL! How very ..evil.. of Sauron to give another ring to the boy, thus ensuring he could hate his fellow Nazgul for all time. That's just so like him! A refinement of evil :) He's a fantastic bad guy - one who's really good at what he does.
I loved Celeborn remembering his grandfather, but not quite remembering when the memory was from. It seemed terribly poignant, the fact that he doesn't know whether he's grown to be taller than him or not. And throughout this chapter his enormous age has come through - the fact that it's been so long since he wrote a song that he can't now really remember if it's one of his or not; all the memories that have been haunting him, even in new places. Galador is quite right - immortality seems like quite a burden in this chapter.
But then there's merry Calandil to show that it doesn't have to be. I loved his interview with the Men; "the Wise suffer vain seekers and fools with kindness. I am less wise, less patient, less kind than they." And his looking mysterious when asked to explain how he knew the Man's name ;D 'I've been eavesdropping on your conversations for the last mile' wouldn't seem quite as impressive. I wonder if the Men knew it was a bawdy song, or if the dialect of Doriath is too different to understand. I can't help but think they imagine he's singing about something tragic and beautiful ;)
I loved the way the elves just appeared - there's a real sense of the difference between the elves and Men, but now the readers know both from the inside. And Celeborn's list of 'bad things of Middle-earth' was oddly amusing. Unlike his "And a warning, though I am certain we shall not heed it." The voice of experience, cynicism and wisdom. Very terse, tactless and Celebornish.
More please!
Author's reply
You're back! How was the vacation?
Glad you enjoyed Sauron. He has been entirely too much fun to write. I get the impression that while Overwhelming Armies of Darkness and Depair are all well and good, and necessary if one is going to rule the world, it is all quite ... corporate. My Sauron muse (lovely. I have a Sauron muse) doesn't try to justify himself at all to me, but he does insist that the artistry of evil is in the details.
Glad the age thing came through. I was hoping it would. And I thought you'd enjoy that little nod toward Elmo.
Caladil is always a hoot to write. He strikes me as one who finds great enjoyment out of life, particularly when there is an opportunity to tease an old friend. Glad you're enjoying him, seeing as how he is yours ;)
I struggled quite a lot with this chapter, and it is so good to hear that it actually worked.
Sphinx
· 13 August 2004
· Chapter 4: The Nine
What a wonderfully *detailed* chapter. I've been waiting for it ever since you gave me the ETA. ;) And it was killing me because I saw the author alert on a routine mail check in the morning, and couldnt read until later.
It was full of little things - that gave it such a fabulous flavour. The Numenorean in the beginning, for instance - my favourite part of the chapter. And the wine spilling, and the rings and the opulence. Wow.
He lifted his face and sneered at the stars while Eärendil passed angrily overhead, powerless, chained by the indifference of his keepers. It was all intensely amusing.
THAT is what I mean.
I especially loved Celeborn's reaction in the end to the news of the Nine. What terror he must have gone through - to realize that if the NIne were susceptible, the Three certainly were. Excellent, excellent touch.
More than anything, it is the way you've created the backstory to all this that floors me. And I love it.
Update. Like, NOW. :D
Sphinx
Author's reply
Oh, I'm so glad to hear that the details worked in this chapter. I've had the thing nearly done for a month, but the stinkin' details just wouldn't work out. I've been despairing, thinking that I've forgotten how to describe the feel of a think. I'm not so good at physical descriptions, but the internal feel of a think usually writes itself. Not so in this chapter until a few minutes before I was ready to post. It is a relief to hear it worked out!
And I'm glad the truth behind Celeborn's concern came through. Not so much that there is a new Bad Guy to fight, but that Galadriel might be next.
Thanks for the review!
Bodkin
· 13 August 2004
· Chapter 4: The Nine
Wonderful. The corruption of the Nine - not that Mr Nasty needed much corruption. In fact, if somebody had to suffer eternal servitude to Sauron, he seems a pretty good candidate. And the horror of their emergence - Celeborn feeling some responsibility due to the circumstances of the making of the rings.
Celeborn and Galadriel's new haven sounds lovely - as do the elves of Edhellond. And Imladris's woods.
Like Calendil's bawdy song (that Celeborn cannot remember if he wrote) sung in the beautiful elven tones that contributed to the men gazing at him with reverent expressions. Also his statement that he is 'less wise, less patient, less kind.' Maybe - but more humorous.
I like Galador. Nobody's fool. Very sensible to come to Imladris to get advice from Celeborn. And I love Celeborn being enthroned by the grove.
Glad you are better - give up cliffs, they are dangerous things.
Author's reply
Thanks for the review, Bodkin! And thanks for mentioning some of the very things I was hoping would come through -- it is always good to know that the story is working, and that I'm not just nattering on ;)
As for giving up the cliffs ... don't know about that. I like rock climbing too much. I just need to give up falling.
npkedit
· 12 August 2004
· Chapter 4: The Nine
Well, first of all, I'm glad you're back writing. Someone suggested I read your stuff when I got into LOTR fic (I'm a Celeborn fan) and it has not been a disappointment. I was delighted to see another chapter (especially the first sightings of the Nazgul).
And I hope you're feeling better now--with me, it was a flight of stairs when I was a teen, 7 months in a wheelchair, and 2 knee operations. I heartily empathize.
Author's reply
Oh, I'm so pleased that you've been enjoying my stories! I didn't intend to write about Celeborn when I started writing LotR fanfic, but after a bit, he just worked his way into the stories. Now he's firmly entrenched.
I am feeling better, and every day gets better. But yikes, I'm glad I managed to avoid your kind of injury! I came down on one foot, but managed to avoid the other, so crutches (annoying as they are) are all I need.
Hope you continue to enjoy the story, and thanks for the review
daw the minstrel
· 12 August 2004
· Chapter 4: The Nine
First let me say I'm sorry about your foot, Bejai. I hope you're feeling better. I broke one bone in my foot once and that was bad enough.
But mostly let me say how much I enjoyed this chapter. The writing is beautiful and vivid and the story is compelling. You use wonderful little details (Celeborn can't remember if he wrote a song or not; Annatar draws a sound from the glass he is holding). I was swept up in it all.
Author's reply
Thanks daw. The foot gets better every day, thank heavens, and in a few weeks I'll get to try walking again.
I'm so glad you enjoyed the chapter. I struggled to get the details right in this one -- it took me longer than usual to articulate what I wanted to say. I'm glad it worked, and thanks for the review.