None For Herself by Thundera Tiger
Reviews (15)
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Darkover
· 7 May 2011
· Chapter 1: None For Herself
Dear Thundera Tiger: As you yourself have said, this is a most appropriate story for Mother's Day! Gilraen, like a lot of mothers, sacrificed a great deal for her child. This story is well-written, emotional without being sentimental. I very much liked the exchange between Halbarad and Aragorn on the subject of Gilraen. Thank you for going to the trouble of doing all the research necessary to write this, and then posting it. Well done. Sincerely, Darkover
Ragnelle
· 9 June 2007
· Chapter 1: None For Herself
HI. I just read your story, and it was heart-breaking. In a good way. I liked it very much.
And don't worry about Roheryn appearing. Horses live quite a bit longer than 11 years and keep their strength quite well. If he is revativly young horse of, say, six years, he'd be no more than 17 at the war of the Ring and should have no problems. My own horse is at that age, and he is in better shape than he was at 12 ;-). In 1694 the Royal Danish stable had about 400 war-horses (including young horses for training), and the average age was 17! So you are quite justified in introducing him.
Vi Janaway
· 28 February 2005
· Chapter 1: None For Herself
I really liked this...
I have seen many fanfics that kill off Gilraen with Arathorn...
But, I like to think that she and Elrond agreed that Aragorn was worth the two of them working together.
Author's reply
Glad you liked it! I'm a big fan of Gilraen, myself. She's the only mother in all of LotR who gets a conversation with her son, even if that conversation has to happen in the appendices. Gilraen was obviously an influence on Aragorn, and I was really hoping to portray that here. I can see her working well with Elrond, too. Many thanks for the review!
krycek
· 10 January 2005
· Chapter 1: None For Herself
I loved this story!! Halbaran and Aragorn have a great friendship. I hope you write more stories featuring those two :)
Author's reply
Sorry I haven't been able to respond before now, but I just wanted you to know that I got your review and I thank you for it! I'll work on more fics with Halbarad and Aragorn.
meckinock
· 19 November 2004
· Chapter 1: None For Herself
The starry sky, the shadows of the hills beneath it, the roar of the river in the distance - the strong sense of place really drives home the connection between the Rangers and their land. The images at the end were so comforting - the hills closing around the two Rangers and the peaceful silence wrapping around them like a mother's embrace. Aragorn and Halbarad are so comfortable with each other; and they both react to the situation and each other with the realistic restraint of warriors and comrades: Aragorn withholding his grief until he can release it alone; Halbarad respecting his Chieftain's need for distance but offering comfort and a bit of humor to ease the tension - "I have always been sensible; you have simply been too insensible to notice." In guy fashion, the two comrades don't discuss their feelings but rather the concept of death itself; the degree of trust between them is demonstrated not by words but by Aragorn's acquiescence to Halbarad's urging to sleep. Gilraen is so often overlooked it is wonderful to see her get her due and not be treated as a tragic victim but as a vibrant woman who had as much if not more to contribute to the forging of a king as Elrond or anyone else; it was especially poignant to see Halbarad's own grief at her loss. I like to think that after she returned home she was cared for by Halbarad in Aragorn's absence.
I didn't want this story to end; I hope you write more Aragorn-Halbarad stories!
Author's reply
I'm so glad you liked the setting, because when I was writing, the setting was what ultimately drove the story in the end. I was strange, actually, because I've never had the scene became such a strong character, but in the end, I gave up and went with it. So I'm very glad you thought it was appropriate. And also very glad that you liked this story. Heartfelt emotions are difficult to deal with anyways, and I've usually characterized Aragorn as a somewhat reticent introvert when it comes to things like this. So I wasn't sure how he was going to come off, especially when I brought Halbarad back into it at the end. But I'm glad you liked their conversation!
fliewatuet
· 17 June 2004
· Chapter 1: None For Herself
Yes, I know I promised a review for this most wonderful story quite some time ago. My profound apologies for the delay. Fortunately, said delay forced me to reread the story again and it again swept me away: it's stunning. The description of the cold night near Annûminas is wonderful. It fits so well into the general sense of grief and lonelyness of the entire piece. But the description of the scene is just one part of what makes the story so beautiful. You managed to give life to two of the most interesting (at least according to my point of view) characters of Tolkien's world, Gilraen and Halbarad, and give depth to their relation to Aragorn.
For Gilraen, there is her influence on Aragorn. She is not only a caring mother, but a teacher, not only of lore but also of warfare, and, most important, one of his most reliable allies. Though you only describe her through Aragorn's eyes, you sketch the picture of a woman who is both strong and selfless but seems to have managed to keep her sense of humour inspite of the dark times in which she lived (that reminiscence of her verbal battle with Glorfindel is my favourite part ... I would soo love to read more about that *hint, hint*;))
As for Halbarad, he is so much more than Aragorn's second in command. He is a friends, almost a brother. But the scene by the fire gives a much better insight into their relationship than I could give in a review!
As I said, a stunning story. Not a humourous one, that would not fit the setting, but a touching story that left me speechless (you couldn't tell by the length of the review;)) and close to tears.
You did a great job!
fliewatuet
Author's reply
*blushes madly* Thank you! But keep your plotbunnies to yourself! Sheesh! I've got enough on my plate without working out what Glorfindel and Gilraen could have argued about.
Anyway, glad you liked the setting. It's odd, but I've never had a setting place such a big part in a story before. It was practically a character in its own right while I was writing. I'm not sure how it is now because I'm still too close to the story to get a really objective look at it, but I'm glad that the setting didn't overwhelm everything. I was worried about that for a while.
I drew Gilraen through Aragorn's eyes because mothers seem to see themselves as flawed, and I wanted to play with the image that most children have of their mothers, namely that they're perfect. Mine is, anyway, but she'll never admit it. Same thing with Gilraen. If I'd done a story from her point of view, she wouldn't have looked nearly as good. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but I like to think that Gilraen is closer to perfection than most. She did raise Aragorn, after all.
Thanks so much for the review! I'm glad this story made an impression.
snow
· 14 May 2004
· Chapter 1: None For Herself
*awed* The effort and research you put into the fic really shows. It's wonderfully naunced and so very evocative. The part where the stars shine on unconcernedly on just broke my heart. So different from the usual pathetic fallacy I'm used to, and that much more resonant. Thank you!
Author's reply
No, thank *you* for the review! And I'm glad you liked the part about the stars. It might just be me being morbid, but sometimes I'll look out the window during a bright sunny day (which I enjoy immensely, I'll add) and wonder if anyone is having a funeral. And if they are, is it possible that they wish it was raining instead of being perky and sunny. Of course, sometimes when it rains I think the same thing about all the people having weddings. So it works both ways. Two different kinds of extremes, after all. Anyway, I decided that it would be to cliche to invite rain into this story, and as the odds were already stacked against the Rangers, why not have the weather play against them, too? But as Rangers, they would eventually adapt and see past it. At least, that's part of what I envisioned happening.
Thanks again for the review!!!
Estel_Mi_Olor
· 12 May 2004
· Chapter 1: None For Herself
Hi Thundera. I realize that I have already left a review, but I just had to reply to your Author Reply. I never realized the whole POV issue before. (Perhaps that's why my writing sucks, but that's another story.) That really opens up a whole new perspective for me. Sorry about that comment then, since it was so inadequate. You're story doesn't seem so macabre to me now, because of another story I know of, which is unfortunately true. One of my favorite teachers's mother was ill, and she passed away on Mother's Day. Sad, huh? I am planning to write an original fiction piece on it. Well thanks again for this fic, and I look forward to updates from you!
Author's reply
No, DON'T apologize! Never apologize for a comment like that. It was a valid critique of the story's middle section. I will agree with you that a case can be made for a less coherent Aragorn. I welcome your criticism, as it points out a problem with my choice of writing style. When I decided to make Aragorn more coherent than many might be, I was basically debating about POV's. I wanted Aragorn to have some downtime with Gilraen alone, which meant that Halbarad would need to leave the scene early on. Which he did. But this also meant that if Aragorn broke down, I wouldn't have anyone available who could take over the POV. That's something I've done before. In a scene in one of my other stories, the POV is from Gimli, but he's knocked out before the scene is done and the POV jumps to Legolas, who is also in the scene. But I couldn't do that here, so I had to decide if I was going to use third person limited as a perspective at all. The other choice that would have allowed Aragorn to break down was the omniscient narrator perspective. I'm not a fan of that, but I've done it before under similar circumstances. Unfortunately, omniscient narration doesn't get you into the character's heads like third person limited does.
So ultimately it came down to this: Do I want to portray Gilraen through Aragorn's eyes and risk having Aragorn slightly more collected than he should be, or do I want to scale down Gilraen's memories while upping reader angst for Aragorn as he breaks down? That was the choice, and in the end I decided that this fic was about Gilraen, not Aragorn. I did shift a bit to omniscient for the last few paragraphs of the middle section as a compromise, but you're right. We lose a bit of Aragorn by focusing on Gilraen.
And that is a completely justified critique on your part. I thank you for sharing it. I explained my reasoning to you because I felt you had a justified critique and I wanted to explain why I chose to go the way I did. I understand where you're coming from and POV issues are things I've struggled with for quite a few different scenes in various stories. Letting me know that you felt this one could have been improved gives me a head's up for other scenes like it. In the future, I will think about blending more of the omniscient narrative into scenes like that. This one I'm going to leave alone for a while, but if I come back for a revision, your comments will be taken into account. (I've already marked them down, actually.) Anyway, please keep those criticisms coming and don't ever retract or apologize for them. They're what help me improve as a writer and it shows your perceptiveness and concern as a reader, which I love. I'd much rather have one good reader than ten fly-by-night "this is nice, keep writing" readers. So thank you again!
And good luck on that original fiction!
rhiannon
· 12 May 2004
· Chapter 1: None For Herself
Your writing was most definitely not inadequate. You did a very good job of describing a mother's devotion. This story was sad but did have hope at the end.
Author's reply
*blushes* Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed it. I felt I was only skimming the iceberg by portraying Gilraen as a series of remembered events, but to me, a person's real contribution to society is best scene by those they've influenced and then continue to influence after their death. Yet at the same time, I felt I was cheating by avoiding dealing with Gilraen directly. I didn't feel comfortable putting her character next to Aragorn and Halbarad as I feel I know them better. Ah well. Author's choice, I suppose. Thanks again!
Estel_Mi_Olor
· 11 May 2004
· Chapter 1: None For Herself
Oh, Thundera! You don't update very often, but when you do, it is worth the wait. That was absolutely beautiful. The way you introduced Aragorn so late in the beginning was very suspensful, especially since we did not know where Halbarad was taking him, and for what purpose. Aragorn's grief was beautiful. His thoughts were so amazingly coherent though, for someone so sorrowful. Of course, since he Aragorn, there is absolutely no reason why they shouldn't be. I had never appreciated Gilraen before. She is so rarely mentioned, and you come to think of her as "the mother of Aragorn," simply as one who gave birth to him, cared for him in childhood, and then has served her purpose. But she was so much more than that, wasn't she? Her self-sacrifice seems very appropriate, and has obviously paid off tenfold. Halbarad's grief is also beautiful to behold, but I agree with his statement about rain. It is better to have a clear, starry night, rather than a rainy one for Gilraen. For I gather that she was not a sad person, but energetic and full of life. The least Arda could do for her passing is to echo her personality. I fully realize the amount of research that went into this fic, your facts were amazing. I believe you are one of the few authors who takes such time to be so precise with her Tolkien. Thank you for that. Thank you also for this fic, and for your tribute to mothers. You called it dark, but it was very appropriate. Keep writing, and I hope to read the conclusion to your various fics sometime soon. Cheers,
Estel_Mi_Olor
Author's reply
I debated, actually, about how coherent I needed to make Aragorn. The main problem is that I write primarily from a third person limited narrative perspective. Essentially, the readers see what the character sees and very little beyond that. Their eyes are our eyes. I use this perspective because I enjoy the advantages it gives me on characterization, but problems crop up when the character being used as the POV becomes incoherent, unconscious, insane, or dead. If you make the narrative rambling, it's difficult for readers to follow. So I had to make Aragorn a bit clearer than I would have liked or the middle section just wouldn't have made much sense. He's a bit more incoherent around Halbarad, because Halbarad is the one looking at him. And from the outside, he seems rather out of it. But within, I like to think that Aragorn is always more or less on top of things. Besides, he's had five weeks to process the news that his mother's dead. So that's my reasoning behind a coherent yet grieving Aragorn. (Besides, we do keep coming back to that "she was gone" line. That does show a bit of rambling as far as his thought processes are concerned.)
Anyway, I'm glad you enjoyed the tale and I'm glad you thought it was appropriate. I thought it was a bit macabre, myself, as I seemed to be honoring mothers by killing a mother off. But Gilraen's purpose was to get Aragorn ready for his destiny, so I thought his memories of her and the way he carries on would be a good tribute. That was my reasoning, anyway. Thanks again!
Dot
· 10 May 2004
· Chapter 1: None For Herself
To be honest, I don’t think anything I could say in a review would accurately convey how moved I was by this piece - I found it so truly touching.
Where to start? Well, I loved the way you chose Halbarad’s viewpoint for us to concentrate on first. You did a great job in showing the loneliness and bleakness of the landscape, while at the same time ensuring that we understand how in tune the Rangers are with this world, as well as that despite the loneliness of their lifestyle there is a camaraderie and friendship among these Rangers.
The description of Aragorn’s appearance almost had me in tears. I think you captured perfectly the idea of someone who is weighted by grief but at the same time, in the urgency of his journey, carries a sense of wildness and disbelief, almost as though he has concentrated solely and determinedly on this journey for fear of focusing too much on this tragedy.
I can’t tell you how glad I am that Halbarad gave her a proper burial in a marked grave. Even if the stone with her name was to be removed afterwards, it speaks volumes of how much esteem in which he held the mother of his friend.
The repetition of “She was gone” is so powerful. I thought it really showed the way he battles with this concept of emptiness and lonesomeness, as though it’s not right that she should be gone at all.
I love that you chose Gilraen to be such an influence on Aragorn. It’s definitely the way I’d prefer to see it too. You created an amazing picture of her as someone for whom her son was her whole world. It seems that she knew what his destiny would mean for him and tried to help him to be as prepared as possible, while always allowing him to be independent and willing to listen to him when he wanted her counsel. Oh, and I love the little glimpses you give us into her character – telling tales to her young son, and a battle of wits against Glorfindel (I’d love to have been there for that!). I particularly liked the idea of her ensuring that Aragorn knew his history from the point of view of men as well as elves, as though she is determined that he knows his heritage. I felt so sad that Aragorn regrets that he had been away from her so much, especially towards the end of her days, but I think that really it says a lot about her strength of character that he almost believed that she would always be there.
Halbarad really comes across as such a good friend. He might feel uncertain as to what to do but in times of grief it’s the practicalities that we appreciate and such simple things as providing space for his friend to grieve and a place to rest, food to eat and a willing ear are what make all the difference. By the way, I liked his thoughts about the rain. It does seem as though the world should weep. It’s funny how much things like this can mean. My grandmother always said that she wanted it to rain on her coffin – a sprinkling of rain is supposed to mean that the soul has reached Heaven. She died about a month ago and as the coffin was lifted into the church, lo and behold there was a shower of rain. I’m glad she got her wish and I suppose it comforted us too. Anyway, Halbarad’s thoughts just reminded me of this;)
"Ónen i-Estel Edain, ú-chebin estel anim.” It’s interesting that in this moment of despair Aragorn chooses to believe that this is about his absence at her end. I always thought it was enigmatic enough that we can’t be quite sure how she intended it. I mean, I know what she was saying, but to me there is a hint of regret to the statement that must be quite heartbreaking for Aragorn. But then, I guess it could also just be seen as a statement of fact, or even of satisfaction at the end that she did what she had set out to do and gave her son fully over to his fate and to the world of Men who would need him more than she did.
I’m totally rambling, aren’t I?! Sorry! Anyway, I loved it – your use of language and emotion are breathtaking and together with a wonderful sense of history running throughout you’ve created a superb piece and an obviously heartfelt tribute to mothers the world over.
Author's reply
Dot, you can't possible ramble better than I can ramble. Believe me when I tell you that I am a consummate rambler. You'd have to spend many hours in practice to ramble as well as I can. So, no. You didn't ramble. I loved your review! And what I loved most about it is that you picked up on narrative choices and gave me specific feedback on them. Which is something I hunger for, so thank you very much!
For example, your comments on Halbarad and the landscape tell me quite a bit. Never has the scenery driven me so much when writing a fic, and I wasn't sure that this was a good thing. To be honest, I was terrified that the setting was going to overwhelm the plot. Thank you for relieving these fears! And the fact that you described Aragorn exactly as I pictured him lets me know that I'm not slacking off in the area of physical descriptions. which is also something I was worried about. And I had wondered if the phrase "she was gone" turned into overkill (pun only partially intended) toward the end, and your comments once again let me know that I'm on the right track. It's reviewers like you that really let me know how I'm doing as an author. And things you don't mention that I worked on are things that I know need more emphasis and better detailing. So thank you for the time you took when writing this review. It truly is appreciated. I wouldn't be able to keep doing this without comments like these. Thank you again!
(On a rather unrelated note, I loved the story about rain on your grandmother's coffin. That was really neat.)
French Pony
· 10 May 2004
· Chapter 1: None For Herself
It's true. Behind every great man is his momma.
What I find interesting about this is that it seems to be the logical, extreme conclusion of the view of traditional motherhood that lasted from the Victorian era through about 1973 or so -- the idea that the greatest good a woman could do would be to pour her whole self into her children. I don't doubt that Tolkien himself subscribed at least partially to his view (though I have heard reports that his daughter didn't), but it's interesting to see what happens when someone actually does that. Premature aging and an early death.
I suppose that what makes it noble and bearable for Gilraen is that she seems to have done all she did by choice. She chose, with open eyes, to get married young and then to devote her entire life to perfecting her child. In that way, one could say that Aragorn is her great artistic triumph. But a lot of those women between 1873 and 1973 who sublimated themselves into their children because it was What You Did ended up also keeping no hope for themselves and died relatively unhappy. It's one thing to choose a fate like Gilraen's; it's quite another to have it chosen for you by custom.
Perhaps it is the fact that everything Gilraen did was the result of a conscious choice that kept Aragorn from ending up as a spoiled, neurotic momma's boy. And that, in the end, is what makes this a feminist tale. Gilraen made her choices freely and did the best she could by them and by her son.
Author's reply
I have such issues with feminism sometimes. The movement was good, the ideals were noble, but since then, it's become so skewed. Ready for my opinion of Women's Rights? Women's Rights do not mean that every wife must leave the home and try to become CEO of a multi-million dollar international conglomerate. Women's Rights means that women may do that if they wish to do that. It also means that they may stay at home and tend children if they wish to do that. It's all about choice, and after that, the feminist movement should have no say. Their job was to make available the option to choose a lifestyle, a career, a politician, etc. But after the choice is available, the individual woman should be the one making the calls.
Anyway, that's how I saw Gilraen, though when I wrote her, I wasn't specifically thinking about feminism. But those were still my ideas. She *chose* to sacrifice everything for Aragorn. She *chose* to marry Arathorn when she did. Did she regret this, in the end? I'd say that there was a twinge of regret. But even though she's a remarkable woman, Gilraen is still only human. And she knows she can't complain because she chose this road knowing full well what most of the consequences would be. That doesn't mean she can't wish for a few more years if it would mean seeing her son married or safe or any of those things that mothers want for their children. She would be crazy not to want these things, and so I think that her passing wasn't the epitome of happiness for Gilraen. But neither was it an utter tragedy for her. Gilraen chose to be dutiful, and she held to it until the end.
Gyah! *looks at reply* Sorry, you pressed a button and I climbed onto a soapbox. My apologies, especially since you basically said everything that I said in my little rant. Argh. Well, I loved your comments and they were very insightful. You can tell I loved them because they prompted a positive rant. Once again, sorry about that, and thanks so much for the thought you put into your reviews. You're always making me think and reconsider, which is something I love about what you write. Thanks again!
shirebound
· 10 May 2004
· Chapter 1: None For Herself
That's a wonderful story. What a lovely tribute not just to Gilraen (and mothers everywhere), but to the love and respect of Aragorn's men and the thoughts and fears that come to us all in the night. A beautiful piece.
Author's reply
Ooo, thank you for picking up on the subplot. Well, it wasn't quite a subplot, but I found myself crafting a story about the Rangers in tandem with a story about Aragorn and Gilraen. And I wondered if anyone would pick up on the secondary story, especially after I trimmed it back. (You should have seen it in earlier drafts. It was out of control.) Anyway, I'm gratified to see that you noted the historical Ranger story as well as the story about Rangers in general, especially regarding grief. I suddenly feel as though all the research was worth it. Thank you!
fadagaski
· 10 May 2004
· Chapter 1: None For Herself
That was beautiful. Truly. Your portrayal of Gilraen is exactly what I've always imagined she was like - it's nigh impossible to find someone who shares my view in this. And her relationship with Aragorn ... beautiful. Very similar to my mother and me - which of course made the whole story all the more difficult to read because of the whole mortality issue. But so beautiful. Thank you for that.
Author's reply
I think most of us hold our mothers in a sort of reverential awe. I say "most" even though I can name quite a few exceptions, but for me, it holds true. My mother is perfect, and I will challenge any one who says otherwise. That's the kind of view I wanted Aragorn to have of Gilraen, because if Gilraen's sacrifice is any indication, she was an exceptional mother. Anyway, I'm glad you liked it and that it touched you. That really does make my day. I was rather uncertain of this fic.
Lindelea
· 10 May 2004
· Chapter 1: None For Herself
Fantastic! I did not have time to read all, but what I did read was up to your usual high standard. You make me "see" the landscape so clearly; more than mere maps can tell... your characters are clearly drawn and have unique personalities. The story appears to be carefully researched (I say "appears" only because I read in such haste and only got about halfway through before I had to quit--even now I type in haste and hope to finish my thought before I'm called away).
In addition, the story tugs at the emotions. It is not a story to be read in haste, nor skimmed, but savoured slowly. I hope to do that. Hope to.
I did run across one typo fairly early on, before I began to rush, pressed for time.
"Anyone else would not be so foolish or so desperate as to hazard *thi* speed."
I hope to come back to read the rest later. Thanks for an excellent read!
Author's reply
Thanks for the catch! I just fixed it, and then my formatting when all wacky and I had to fix that, too. Hopefully it's all working now. *crosses fingers* Anyway, I'm glad you paused to skim this story and I'm even more grateful that you took the time to comment. Believe me, I appreciate it. In particular, I am so grateful that you commented on the landscape, because that became an intense driving force for this fic. I had no idea that it would play such a prominent part, but it kept coming up so I eventually gave it and let it be a character in its own right. It was a unique experience, and I'm relieved that the landscape came across as clearly as it did. It was staring me in the face, but I wasn't sure if I'd be able to convey that in fic form. Thanks for the comments and also for all the support you give me. I look forward to your reviews every time!