Reflections from the Paradise of Elves by Bodkin
daw the minstrel · 19 June 2006 · Chapter 84: In Loco Parentis
All right. These three have lounged around long enough. They need to get a move on. Are they mad? The kids could have done anything by now -- bees, bears, deadfalls, poison plants --- anything.
Author's reply
But they're male. They can't multi-task! They'll just imagine - optimistically - that everything's fine ... until it isn't.
Lianna · 19 June 2006 · Chapter 84: In Loco Parentis
Oh, my goodness. Now they're camp counselors! You torture them so. ;)
Author's reply
Poor unfortunate elves! They thought looking after their own children was bad enough! (Actually, it started being their own children - but Galenthil is too old and Ellanthir is too young, so it just had to be random elflings!)
Armariel · 14 May 2006 · Chapter 45: Dates
Oh my goodness...what WAS the gift? it had better be something costly, heheh...Well, imagine an elf forgetting his anniversary--Why IS it worth celebrating anyway? ;)
Author's reply
Why IS it worth celebrating anyway? I don't know - anniversaries leave me cold, actually. I don't think I ever decided what the gift was. But I'm sure Elerrina loved it! And Legolas for providing it.
Nilmandra · 8 May 2006 · Chapter 83: Cousins
What Galadriel asked of Curaniel was sacrificial indeed, though it seems that Curaniel found the request to stay with Arwen to be her desire. But still.. to stay knowing an end would come had to be very difficult. She has more in common with the twins and Legolas than perhaps anyone else. I hope they do seek her out and tell her.
Author's reply
I can see how it might slip their mind after they arrived - they were all worn to the bone and needed a long period of recuperation. And then, I don't think they were ready to have Estel and Arwen's deaths before them quite as starkly as they would have been if they had looked for Curaniel immediately. Glorfindel probably sought her out. I think that he may well have dealt with it all rather better. Having been dead. Yes, what Galadriel led Curaniel to do was sacrificial and courageous - and makes her family, I would think. And they are probably all recovered enough to be able to acknowledge that now.
Redheredh · 7 May 2006 · Chapter 83: Cousins
I was so glad to see you focus on Curaniel! I have always like her. Very interesting having the guys realize that she was a fellow vet, despite technically being a non-combatant. I can imagine her telling the tale to Celebrian and Elrond. As someone from a society with an oral rather than written tradition, she brought the emotion as well as the events with her. No bland words on a page, but smiles and touches and voices. Hmm, did not go back to the Galadhrim, eh? Maybe Haldir will suddenly, after all this time, run into her again? And appreciate the change in her since last they met? Perhaps, realize a change in his heart too? ;D Where's Galadiel when you *really* need her intervention?! Another good chapter, Bodkin!
Author's reply
In some ways they have even more in common with Curaniel than with other elven warriors. They share the experience of living among and loving mortals - loving them knowing they would die and only the end of days would reunite them. Celebrian and Elrond would have welcomed her as someone who could bridge the gap between them and Arwen's family - and she could talk and unburden herself. And most of what she had to say would have been about love and friendship and happiness. But, perhaps, as she opened that side of her experience, the darker side might have weighed on her more heavily. I doubt she would have wanted to let Elrond and Celebrian see the sorrow - and, eventually, I think she would have needed to purge that. She would have had to seek support - and I don't think she would have found that among the Galadhrim. They would have attempted to understand, I expect, but it was beyond their experience. Eventually, perhaps, she might bump into Haldir again. I think he needs to grow, though - or she will be beyond his comprehension. Thank you. I'm glad you liked it!
Armariel · 7 May 2006 · Chapter 34: Elfling Power
OMG......I am in hysterics.......just had to stop for a breath! Such HUMAN elves and such REAL children...we loves it!! Oh yes...get her a kitten! LOL Well, I'm not a huge Elf-fan on the whole, I'm more of a hobbit fancier if you've noticed (though not of the pervy sort;)) but THESE elves....I find it amazing that you can create such a series with only the same 3 characters in a place where nothing happens, and keep it going...really amazing. And the 3 are well individualized; there's no mistaking one for another--even when they're twins. I've never been a parent, but yes.....this all rings so true somehow...... ~~~{~@
Author's reply
Oh, I don't know - I think you've got some lovely elves! Including one who is very good at managing the adults around her! I love writing these little snippets - they are such fun and even now it doesn't seem to be difficult to confine them to the three of them - and the occasional unconscious bystander. Parenthood has proved a challenge for them, I think - and has certainly managed to dissipate any boredom they thought they might feel. By they time they are out of children, they might have found other entertainments! And little girls tend to be very good at managing fathers and grandfathers. Why should elflings be any different! Thank you - I'm glad you enjoyed it!
elliska · 7 May 2006 · Chapter 83: Cousins
So is this you thinking out loud about a story involving Arwen's life with Aragorn? I would love that. But this was fascinating by itself. You do a really good job showing the differences between the elves that speant the majority of their lives in Aman and those from Middle Earth, but poor Cúraniel is really in a class of her own, isn't she? Very sad. I love these Reflections, Bodkin!
Author's reply
Thank you. Reflections can never end - they start off so many trains of thought. I hadn't thought about an Arwen and Aragorn story - not, at least, until you mentioned it! It's easy to see the differences between the warriors of Middle-earth and the non-combatants of Aman, but the whole of the elves' experience must have been different - like growing up in a war zone, where even the minutiae of everyday life could be affected. I doubt Aman suffers from flood/famine/drought/blight - but these are all things that could make life difficult even in the safest elven haven. Curaniel lived among men - grew to love them, watched them grow old and die. I think maybe only Mithrellas would really understand - and Curaniel could console herself with the fact that at least she was not grieving eternally for the partner with whom she might never be reunited.
Lianna · 7 May 2006 · Chapter 83: Cousins
Here's hoping that this chapter is a teaser for a story about Curaniel's experience in Aman.
Author's reply
Well - there are a couple of pages somewhere!! They haven't grown into anything more yet, but she is worming away at my sub-conscious. I'll have to see what develops!
Larner · 7 May 2006 · Chapter 83: Cousins
A very thought-provoking chapter, looking at how heavy exposure to Men's experience with time can effect great changes in those Elves who allow themselves that experience. Very, very thought-provoking. Thanks, Bodkin, for the stimulation.
Author's reply
Courage comes in all sorts of ways, I think. Facing repeated deaths from old age must have taken a lot of resolution for an elleth from Lothlorien - as would growing to love people with whom she stood no chance of being reunited before the end of days. Thank you. I'm glad you enjoyed it.
daw the minstrel · 7 May 2006 · Chapter 83: Cousins
It's always interesting to think about how elves who weren't warriors experienced life in Arda. And surely that would be most of them. It's easy to see the heroism of those with a weapon in their hands, but that's not the only kind of heroism there is.
Author's reply
Most elves would have been busy just living their lives, I would think. And most of them would probably have had little experience outside their own region - although, of course, being immortal probably increased the chances that they had been round for at least one of Middle-earth's major crises. I would be interesting to see them surviving drought, famine - the vagaries of nature. Self sacrifice and such. It doesn't look much - spending a century around men - but it must have made some very fundamental differences to the way Curaniel saw the world and it would be very surprising if she had been able to slot back into the gilded timelessness of elven paradise.
avast · 4 April 2006 · Chapter 82: Long Shadows
haha, when is this going to end? paradise goes on forever..haha
Author's reply
To adapt Alfred, Lord Tennyson - ‘Elves may come and elves may go but Reflections go on for ever’. I think it might become Reflections 2: Return of the Elf sometime around Reflection 90. I have up to 86 stored away on my hard disk - and they show no sign of stopping yet. And they feed in so many ideas that become other stories. I hope you're not getting bored with them!
Redheredh · 3 April 2006 · Chapter 82: Long Shadows
Bodkin, each one of these chapters is a jewel. It was actually heartening to hear E2L reminising about their childhood offenses and rueing them, instead of viewing their inconsiderate behaviour with unchanged childish bias. Gives me all the more faith in their ability to be good fathers. ;) Galadriel's assessment of learning lessons is very interesting, seeing as she was raised in Aman. But, would Imladis be all that different when E2 were being brought up? It certainly was not the Mirkwood. That old saw is so true... Just wait 'til you have kids!
Author's reply
Thank you! It is definitely true that little things you did as a child can haunt you throughout life - often things that meant nothing to you then. I suspect Celebrian's horror would have had an impact at the time - and Elrohir is sensitive enough to find that incident haunting him at times, despite the years as a fierce, orc-slaying warrior. Elladan is a bit more pragmatic, I think. More likely to realise that kids are little savages who learn to behave according to the shibboleths of their society. But determined to see that their own children are taught well and taught young. Painful lessons are part of growing up, whether you're in Aman or not. Galadriel will not, I think, have been a particularly easy child - and possibly a rather indulged last-born only daughter. She will have had to learn to be an ornament of her house and might well have been reluctant to take on some of the qualities. Then, too, I reckon she is aware that many of her own painful lessons came courtesy of Alqualonde and the Helcaraxe - and in Beleriand, where all her brothers died. And she did not stop learning - right to the point where she was able to reject the offer of unlimited power because she knew that other things mattered more - and beyond, while she waited for Celeborn to sail. The twins had a golden childhood in Imladris - beautiful environment, privileged upbringing, loving adults to guide them - but I don't think they would be indulged particularly and they would have to learn to conduct themselves in every way as the heirs of their houses, taught by those who knew hard times and evil and would not accept less than the twins' best. Not Mirkwood - but even there, as the evil began to grow, I think Legolas and any other elflings would have been shielded as much as possible from the darkness and offered a childhood of innocence. Harder to keep the realities from them, though. And the perspective changes so much when you have kids of your own!
Dreamflower · 2 April 2006 · Chapter 82: Long Shadows
A very astute observation! It's so true that what seems perfectly all right to a child will drive an adult to distraction, and that only the perspective of adulthood will bring on realization of how reprehensible one's behavior had been. Having kids of one's own, of course, rather hastens the process, LOL!
Author's reply
Children - of all kinds - are very self-centred, and they observe the world and poke it to see what happens. I doubt Elladan and Elrohir meant to be particularly hurtful, but they didn't have enough sense to know what harm they could be doing. Celebrian's disgust will have had a huge impact - and Elrohir is one who would brood on a petty cruelty. Elladan would dismiss it more easily, I think - he knew he didn't mean to do any harm, whereas Elrohir would see that, meant or not, they did do damage. But kids are desperate to hide petty accidents like spilled drinks, which they think are terrible - and then don't even register actions that can have long-term effects. Having kids does make you realise that men might be from Mars and women from Venus - but that kids are from Alpha Centauri.
elliska · 2 April 2006 · Chapter 82: Long Shadows
Only we lacked the wit to have a ship in which to shelter.’ *Snort!* Hilarious! And so were Legolas's comments about his own childrens' transgressions! It is amazing how much you can convey by saying very little. I can just imagine the wolf pups and scrolls! And the story about Galuion--that is very sad. A lot of shildren do things like that--it speaks well of Elrohir that he regrets it so now. I would love to see him have the opportunity to apologize in Aman. Love these!
Author's reply
It takes being responsible for kids, I think, to realise just what you put your parents through. Celebrian's reaction impressed the twins more than what they did, I suspect, in the Galuion incident. But Elrohir is one who would be horrified by it in retrospect. Elladan would be more pragmatic, I think - more likely to say that kids are savages and only learn civilisation through intensive training. You never know. Galuion might turn up. The cast is pages long now - and I'm having to take notes. I could just see a bored Elladan scrawling misspelt speech bubbles on illustrations - 'Die, sporn of morgoff!' I don't think Elrond would have been too impressed. Glorfindel is a joy to have around. Enough detachment from the horrors of parenthood to come up with one-liners!
Larner · 2 April 2006 · Chapter 82: Long Shadows
We do tend to turn grey as we watch our children do absolutely untoward things, don't we? Raising mine was a horrible experience--but then I got them pregrowed somewhat and had constantly to deal with leftover influences.
Author's reply
I once worked with a 15 year old boy who recalled how, at about 10, he and his friends used to swing on a rope dangling from a tree - only problem being it swung right out over a road. A quiet road, true, but a road nonetheless. At 15 he could see so easily how child-on-rope + car could = disaster, but it never even occurred to him at the time. I think kids have limited vision. Goes partly with limited experience, but it is part of the self-centredness of childhood that just isn't very good at extrapolating to understand how others feel. Elrohir is the sort of person who would be horrified by some of the things he did as a child - just as Elladan is likely to shrug them off as being one of the things you can't change. And, of course, the possession of children of their own is going to make them see things differently. And empathise with their parents!
Jay of Lasgalen · 2 April 2006 · Chapter 82: Long Shadows
There seem to be a few seeds for new plot ideas here! I remember the one about Elladan, but some of the others would make intriguing tales. Elrohir's memory of teasing their companion is sad - children can be unthinkingly cruel sometimes. If he still feels guilty, it clearly had a lasting effect. I love Glorfindel's comment about the twins' affinity with water - it sounds typical of how I imagine him.
Author's reply
Children can be very cruel - often without any thought at all - just to watch people squirm. Of course later a sensitive elf like Elrohir would find it difficult to forgive himself such unthinking unkindness. And their naneth's reaction would doubtless have given them cause to think. I just love Glorfindel. He throws in some wonderful lines. As fond of them as a loving uncle, but just detached enough to be able to laugh.
Nilmandra · 2 April 2006 · Chapter 82: Long Shadows
Unfortunately, I think Galadriel is right on here. We do seem to learn best when there is a little pain attached. In what story is the mud/Elladan account? Have I missed it?
Author's reply
Elladan and the mud is Reflections 61-64 and Elflings 7. It was one of those threads that just took over for a while! And yes. We spend so much time trying to coax our children into painless learning - but nothing beats learning from your mistakes. One of the things Galadriel has learned over the ages, I think, is that there are times to be hard. It might stand Elrohir's twins in good stead yet!
perelleth · 2 April 2006 · Chapter 82: Long Shadows
Yes! Memory for these long-lived creatures must be like a treasure chest! And the change of perception might be even more noticeable for them, as they accumulate experience!! Anyway these elves have been blessed with very sensible elflings, after all, considering the exploits they can boast -or regret- right now. :-) ‘I always felt far more wicked for drawing on Adar’s scroll of the Fall of Gondolin,’ LOL! I suppose that the same conversation between Elrond and Thranduil regarding their children's most terrible deeds would have a very different outcome, but the spoilt parchment surely was a low blow for Elrond!
Author's reply
Elrohir's daughters can still be quite a pain - I tend to think they might spend some time with Galadriel at some point. I think they would benefit from someone who can treat them with a bit of detachment. Sometimes it is difficult to find these three new things to do, without to much reminiscing - but there are moments that are just too good to miss. Poor Elrohir. He would be haunted by the memory of unthinking cruelty - and feel guilty for it over 3000 years later. Elladan's wickedness is something a child would find much naughtier - and yet, I think if Elrond were to judge the greater sin, he would agree with Celebrian that those unthinking words were worse than drawing on the margins of his scroll. I can't remember offhand which Reflection mentions writing on the scroll, but I think it is suggested that it is the only time Elladan was spanked. Every elf has his breaking point and abuse of scrolls might well be Elrond's!
daw the minstrel · 2 April 2006 · Chapter 82: Long Shadows
I was glad to see this, Bodkin. What a sad story Elrohir tells. That one would haunt me too. It's always been my theory that children should go away to college because then you don't know what they're up to. It's better that way.
Author's reply
Elrohir's story is one that would make him cringe for ever, I think. He is a touch more contemplative than Elladan, who might shrug and say that children do and say stupid things without meaning it - because they are too young to know better. Elrohir would think he should have known better. Yes - going away to college is better for both parents and children! Definitely.
Larner · 30 March 2006 · Chapter 9: Adjustments
Oh, sounds like quite the fishing party. The poor ellyth--having to deal with a prosaic one from Ennor who's perhaps not yet as tame as she might like. The two of them will come around, and Elladan will find equilibrium yet.
Author's reply
I feel they've always done their best to avoid getting into potentially intimate situations with girls - after all, you don't manage to last 3000+ years unwed if you spend too much time courting! Elladan and Miriwen are still in the first flush of elven marital enthusiasm when they are finding it hard to realise that there is still a world out there. And Elrohir is missing the level of contact he has always had with his brother. But they will sort it out.
Larner · 30 March 2006 · Chapter 8: Changes
As long as Legolas's partner has chestnut hair and Elrohir's the looks of one of the Galadhrim I think this dance would be enjoyable.
Author's reply
You think so? I suspect you might be right! Having fallen himself, Elladan is remarkably keen for his friend and brother to find the joy that is now his!
Larner · 30 March 2006 · Chapter 7: In Vino Veritas
Aha--the first wedding comes, does it? Wonderful! And they'd best sober him up!
Author's reply
He's probably as giddy from anticipation as wine. I see Elladan as being very whole-hearted - once he gives himself, there are no second thoughts or doubts. It'll be hard on Elrohir, though.
Larner · 30 March 2006 · Chapter 6: Heart's Desire
The truth is coming out, now that Elladan has fallen.
Author's reply
Ah yes. It took Elladan a long time to see what was there, but he is one to fall headlong once he gets an idea in his head.
Larner · 30 March 2006 · Chapter 5: What if. . .?
Arwen's song does go on. The speculation here is weighty--until we think of perhaps Legolas as Aragorn's father-in-law. Now, that is an image that is priceless! I love the subtle blend of humor and grief.
Author's reply
Elladan, Elrohir and Legolas are not going to let go of their memories of those they love - but they're not going to wallow, either. They will insist on combining humour with regret. And pride.
Larner · 30 March 2006 · Chapter 4: The Opposite Sex
We're persistent when we're bored, aren't we?
Author's reply
Very persistent. Doggedness is a defining characteristic!