Imrahoil
· 28 October 2004
· Chapter 3: The Journey
My oh my, a spoilt Elven brat and a lovesick Elven fool, something I generally don't allow into "my" Tolkien universe, but, sigh, when there is one exception to the rule it is the story of Nimrodel and Amroth. Very well done, telling it from Mithrellas POV is rather appealing, but you/Mithrellas are to kind towards them, hihi, I would like them to be reborn with their memories complete and loathing each other heartily.
Author's reply
Amroth and Nimrodel - it all sounds very romantic until you think about what they were actually doing and how Amroth was abandoning his responsibilities at a very dangerous time to carry the brat off to eternal safety. Mithrellas was Nimrodel's attendant and (presumably) one of her closest friends (although I think Nimrodel wanted admirers rather than real friends) and so she was probably rather more tolerant of her brattishness. I'm sure if you asked others (Galadriel?) you would get a rather less tolerant description of her!
Luthien also seems to me to be rather tarred with the Juliet brush!
elliska
· 28 October 2004
· Chapter 3: The Journey
Wow, that was sad. I mean you know exactly what is going to happen and it is still sad.
It was highly unlikely that she would ever realise how much she had asked of Amroth, or how much he had paid for her love. That is certainly true.
I liked the description of how they got separated. Very believable. And Mithrellas' search for the others was very sad.
I particularly liked this thought though: ‘History is selective,’ she informed him. ‘It remembers that which makes a good story – and it is told by those who survive.’
How true that is and I never thought until I read that how history must seem to an elf who lived it. Of course, they still see history from their own point of view, but they actually lived it and didn't read someone else's account. Interesting to think about.
Along those lines, how interesting it must be for her many times over grandchildren to be hearing this first hand account of hazy legends. This is really well done. I am truly enjoying it.
Author's reply
Yes, I don't think 'sensitive' was Nimrodel's middle name. She strikes me as the kind of girl who thinks she has all the delicate virtues, but is actually as tough as an old boot when it comes to getting her own way.
I couldn't imagine what, other than an attack, would separate a group of elves and leave them wandering in the woods.
History is written by the winners - and you only have to think back to things you lived through (and it doesn't have to be that far back) to see how the experience twists as it is recorded. The Amroth / Nimrodel story leaves out so much - such as the attendants - and would they really have been wandering off without guards - and what happened to the Joe Bloggses of the elf world? And, like Beren and Luthien, it's superficially very romantic until you think -Hey, this bloke was the Thranduil of Lorien - he just upped sticks and followed this bimbo regardless of all those who trusted him and relied on him to lead them. (Guess what, I don't think very highly of Amroth and Nimrodel!)
I should think that Imrahil's family didn't really believe the legends at all - elves were pretty rare in Gondor, I think, until The Wedding - and after that it probably all seemed a bit distant.
Thank you - I'm glad you are enjoying it.
daw the minstrel
· 28 October 2004
· Chapter 3: The Journey
This is just beautiful, Bodkin. Even the images of mist are lovely, dangerous but lovely. You've done just a wonderful job in bringing this piece of canon to life.
Author's reply
Thank you. It's actually very interesting to work with because there is just enough information to lead it (contradictory, some of it, but that opens it up a bit) and not too much in the way of developed character. The difficult thing for me is turning out to be passage of time over journeys - nobody really wants to know every meal, or day on horseback.
More soon!
Jay of Lasgalen
· 27 October 2004
· Chapter 2: Leaving Lorien
It's interesting to hear Mithrellas's story - how sad to watch those around her grow so swiftly.
The tale of how elven blood came into Imrahil's line is one that has puzzled me before - thanks for explaining it!
Jay
Author's reply
Elf / Man bonds must have been really painful on both sides - but at least for the Men there comes a natural ending. Elves who committed themselves to humans must have suffered grief over the ages without hope of reunion.
However, it's not the kind of thing people pay attention to when they fall in LURVE, when a few years of happiness seem worth any price.
The story of Mithrellas and Imrazor is in the Word Of JRRT, but, fortunately, it is quite short - leaving scope for playing.
Thank you for reading.
SharonB
· 26 October 2004
· Chapter 2: Leaving Lorien
Oh my those Silvan evles certianly were complex and Nimordel a little more than self-centered to not realize or care how she was tearing Amroth apart in demanding he follow her or else. What was it that Mithrellas loved about her so?
I wonder if Mithrellas would really stay in Middle Earth under other circumstances. Certainly not with her human family as that would be too much to bear seaing them grow old and die repeatedly. But some elves obviously never did leave.
You are bringing up all sorts of intriguing questions with this story. Please post more soon.
Shoarn
Author's reply
I think Nimrodel must have been one of those people with bags of charisma - the sort who get you to do things that you never would if you had room to think.
The whole elf / mortal thing is very difficult - and in some ways those granted the same fate had the best of it. At least Beren / Luthien, Arwen / Aragorn and Idril / Tuor ended up together.
The sources don't really say what happened to Mithrellas - she could have stayed, but the age of the elves was over, and wherever she would not be reunited with Imrazor.
This is quite fun to work on - the information is so limited.
elliska
· 26 October 2004
· Chapter 2: Leaving Lorien
Now this is a topic you don't see dealt with very much in fanfic (or at least I've been missing it). I very much enjoyed seeing Nimrodel and Amroth debating over coming or going. I imagine this is how it must have gone. It would be one heck of a decision for Amroth to make, leaving Lorien leaderless to follow his love. It honestly makes it hard for me to respect him or especially Nimrodel. I really am enjoying this. The loss of Amroth is a central topic of one of the parts of my story so I am very interested to see how you handle it.
And I love how it is framed by Mithrellas' conversation with her many times great grandchildren. How amazing that would be (in all senses of the word) for everyone involved. This is very clever. Looking forward to the update.
Author's reply
Quite! I'm afraid I find Nimrodel to be irresponsible and insensitive - and manipulative. And it is hard to have any respect for an Amroth who, when danger threatened Lorien, ran off after Nimrodel and promised to carry her off to safety across the sea!
What type of leader is that? Not the Thranduil sort, for sure. Not the Galadriel and Celeborn type, or an Elrond.
Amroth and Nimrodel are really peripheral to the Mithrellas / Imrazor story once Mithrellas is separated from the rest of them - and their story then becomes more general knowledge rather than personal experience.
Wouldn't it be - unexpected (and not altogether welcome) - if an ancestor from a thousand years ago came round to tea! I don't think it would be possible even to hold a mutually comprehensible conversation.
daw the minstrel
· 26 October 2004
· Chapter 2: Leaving Lorien
Wow. It's before 6am and I'm totally absorbed in this. I have to say I don't like Nimrodel. I don't like her manipulativeness or her playing with Amroth's love.
Author's reply
There doesn't seem to be a lot about Nimrodel and Amroth, but it's one of those stories that is superficially very romantic (like Beren and Luthien) - until you think about it.
Balrog arrives, Dwarves flee, Lorien under threat - and what does Nimrodel do? Run off to seek safety, followed by the Lord of Lorien, whose duty is to protect the wood and those in it. He then promises to carry her off to eternal safety across the sea. Well, excuse me! Here we have a pair who deserved their miserable fate.
6 am, huh? You get up and read long before dawn, just as I do!
Elena Tiriel
· 26 October 2004
· Chapter 2: Leaving Lorien
Ah, lovely! Please keep going... I want more!
- Barbara
Author's reply
OK. Service will be continued shortly. (I've almost got Mithrellas and Imrazor to meet - but it's a long way from Lorien to Dol Amroth.)
elliska
· 24 October 2004
· Chapter 1: An Unexpected Meeting
Now that would be an encounter, wouldn't it? What a good idea! I have always thought that elven blood was in the line of the Princes and Dol Amroth, whether or not Tolkien left it somewhat uncertain. How sad this meeting is, especially at that time--as you said when the last elves were leaving and Arwen was marrying Aragorn. A strange perspective to see Arwen's choice as a blessing not something to lament. I liked this one. Glad to see it is a WIP. I am curious where you will take it.
Author's reply
The Return of the King V 9, where Legolas, looking on Price
Imrahil of Dol Amroth, saw that he was "one who had Elven-blood in his
veins, and said to him: "It is long since the people of Nimrodel left the
woodlands of Lórien, and yet still one may see that not all sailed from
Amroth's haven west over water." The History of Galadriel and Celeborn.
Mind you, even in that there seems to be a variety of versions of their story. I suppose that's half the fun - with so little that is definitive, it give plenty of opportunity to play.
It's the family overtones that make Arwen's choice so tragic rather than giving up immortality - especially if you look on the afterlife as including the reunion of those who loved in life. You can't stop thinking about poor Elrond, and Celebrian there in Valinor looking forward to being reunited with the kids - and then being divided until the end of the world seems bad. But, on the other hand, would it have been preferable to Arwen to be able to sail on Aragorn's death and be eternally divided from him and her children and grandchildren? And, should Aragorn have been granted the right to go to Valinor, how would he have felt about never seeing his mother there beyond the circles of the word? Not to mention the children again.
An interesting meeting - most of the story will be about Mithrellas and Imrazor, I think, although I'm finding it hard to get past Amroth and Nimrodel at the moment.
SharonB
· 24 October 2004
· Chapter 1: An Unexpected Meeting
A a new one, this should be interesting to hear Mithrellas recount those family stories of old. And that she can be seen in all of the family is ome way or another, how poinent for them all. This sounds to be quite an interesting story. Do post more soon.
Sharon
Author's reply
Thank you Sharon. Amroth and Nimrodel are insisting on telling their story at the moment, but Mithrellas will be meeting Imrazor sometime soon. There's not a lot about them in the evidence (thanks Elena Tiriel), which will simplify that part rather.
It shouldn't be too long before part 2 is cooked!
Elena Tiriel
· 24 October 2004
· Chapter 1: An Unexpected Meeting
I have found info about Amroth and Nimrodel in Unfinished Tales and about the line of Dol Amroth Princes in Peoples of Middle-earth (HoME 12). Send me your email address (to my penname above at hotmail dot com) and I'll email the info to you.
Anything to keep your muse happy!
- Barbara
Author's reply
Have done so. Thank you very much for your help. The history is adding an interesting level of complication, because unexpected people / happenings insist on making their presence felt. I think Galadriel and Celeborn are insisting on a cameo in Lorien. But they haven't quite decided if they are Amroth's parents or not.
Lindelea
· 24 October 2004
· Chapter 1: An Unexpected Meeting
What a lovely story! A reflected moment in time, catching glints of light from many points in the past. Very nicely done, indeed.
Author's reply
Thank you. I'm glad you liked it. I've been looking at it for a while, thinking about the back-story and deciding whether or not to make it part of the story - I'm rather nervous, because of the potential for big mistakes with the history of it, but it's insisting on being written. I hope you continue to enjoy it.
Bejai
· 23 October 2004
· Chapter 1: An Unexpected Meeting
Oh, wonderful, Bodkin! What an absolutely fresh, unexplored canon-based story! I don't think I've ever seen anyone write about the elven blood of Dol Amroth. I did a little bit of research on the topic to get the history I needed for DF and the Amroth story, so am just thrilled to see this! Bravo!
Author's reply
I just hope I get the history right! There is so much potential for error - especially since Tolkien changed his mind. After all, who is Amroth's father? Because it makes quite a difference.
I hope the rest of it lives up to expectation. ('fresh, unexplored canon-based story' ?? I didn't think it was possible!)
Thank you for reading.
Elena Tiriel
· 23 October 2004
· Chapter 1: An Unexpected Meeting
This is lovely, Bodkin! I echo Daw's perfect word: magical!
And I encourage you to continue. Do you have the original canon source(s) (sorry, can't remember offhand whether it's Unfinished Tales or HoME, or both)? If not, I can send you the relevant canon quotes via email... anything to encourage your muse to continue!
- Barbara
Author's reply
Goodness - thank you. I'm glad you liked it.
I have started the next chapter - but I am finding that I need to know rather more about Amroth and Nimrodel than I thought I would! I would really appreciate the original sources - I have some of the books, but nowhere near all of them. I'm sure there will be mistakes (it's so much more difficult when using information that is less well known - and I'm never that certain of all the timelines), but I'd like to avoid anything too glaring. The muse is rather running with this at the moment - it's become quite obsessive!
daw the minstrel
· 23 October 2004
· Chapter 1: An Unexpected Meeting
That was magical! I like this working out of what it means for an elf to love a mortal and NOT have the choice of Luthien. I also like Imrahil's concern for his son.
Author's reply
Thank you so much! It must have been painful on both sides - but living with an eternal division for a race that only had one love must have been so difficult - and yet the last thing that occurs to people when they fall in love.
It must have been one of the things that really worried elders about contact with elves - you really wouldn't have wanted your child to love one (especially if she was their great x 20 ish grandmother.)
The dangers of mortal / elf love cut both ways.
Raksha The Demon
· 23 October 2004
· Chapter 1: An Unexpected Meeting
Oh, what a pretty story!
I always thought that the tale of elf-blood in the Dol Amroth line was not just a legend. And I remembered Mithrellas from Tolkien's work outside LOTR (don't think she and Imrazor were mentioned in the Appendices)
Very well done.
Author's reply
I must confess that my certainty comes courtesy of the Encyclopedia of Arda and a wonderfully informative piece of writing from Michael Martinez.
I'm in the throes of extending this to the tale of Imrazor's and Mithrellas's story, as Mithrellas tells it to her descendants.
Thank you for reading and reviewing.
Rose Sared
· 23 October 2004
· Chapter 1: An Unexpected Meeting
This is just wonderful, thank you, I have no idea whether your progenitor is canon but she should be. Your writing is luminous, your description of the lady's grief and yet abiding affection, and the reson why elves and mortals cleave to each other so fiercly rings with truth.
This story turns a light onto neglected canon.
Well done
Rose
Author's reply
Mithrellas and Imrazor the Numenorean are indeed the progenitors of the line of Dol Amroth. This is (probably)(almost definitely) going on to tell the story of Mithrellas and Imrazor as she tells it to Imrahil and his children.
I am glad you like it - this bit has been mostly written for a while, but I've only just moved on to the next bit. I suppose the whole thing is marginally more cheerful than Partings!
I'm sure there must have been considerably more elf/mortal partnerships than are noted - and they must have come with plenty of pain attached.
Thank you for reading.