Light on the Way by Larner
Imrahoil · 1 December 2004 · Chapter 8: Leavetaking
Not so very rummy (whatever that is). I had skipped the part about "you who were named for my father", once again loosing points for not reading properly - by the way, whoever named the horse gets 1 point in the Tolkien geek test -, so I had no problem at all with all those Elroses popping up like snowdrops. Sorry about your back, I hope it will be better soon.
Imrahoil · 1 December 2004 · Chapter 8: Leavetaking
Tadaa, redemption, redemption. Have a closer look at the last sentence, please.
Author's reply
I was rummy, wasn't I? Wrote Elros every time I meant Elrond. I think I need some sleep, if my body will accept it. Hate it when my back goes out and I can't sleep.
grumpy · 30 November 2004 · Chapter 7: The Queen's Grief
Such a great chapter, this story is so good. I love it that the Warden was so concerned for Arwin. Actually I love the whole thing, from the Warden not really knowing that Arwin was a elf, to the conversations between the warden and Eldarion, and between him and his mother. That Aragorn has Arwin's light, that he will be looking for her. Looking forward to more, now where did I put my kleenexs, i need them.
Author's reply
Hope you don't need too many tissues. ;->
Imrahoil · 30 November 2004 · Chapter 7: The Queen's Grief
A very satisfying read. I'm now hoarding hankies for the next chapter, hopefully I'm going to be alone when it's uploaded. But something bothers me since chapter 4, why do you describe Merry's and Pippin's and later on Sam's spirit as tall? Why not bright, luminous, clear, ...? It somehow doesn't feel right to describe their greatness in terms of height. Just interested in your point of view, so don't get mad. And it's your fault anyway, you're too patient with people meddling with your stories and so it gets on and on and on.
Author's reply
Why should I be angry? The question of why they should be tall is a valid one. I suspect that Aragorn, were he to measure himself against them, would find he was just as tall. Height seems to have been important to Tolkien as a sign of leadership and greatness. Someone figured out Elendil the Tall was indeed a giant among men, being somewhere in the area of eight feet tall, which would be not far short of three meters. Aragorn was also quite tall, as was Boromir, whose shoulders were also described frequently in terms of their breadth as well. We are looking both at the idea of true shapes and of personal perceptions and conceptions of greatness. No, the Hobbits don't have to be tall; but they have crossed the River, and their true natures are being revealed--not cute little halflings, but spiritual Lords, particularly Frodo, Sam, and Bilbo. And I'm again inspired by C.S. Lewis's _The Great Divorce_, particularly the final imagery of the great Lords and Ladies playing their cosmic game. And at the same time they are now revealed in their greatness, greatness greater than the Elves, mind you, I still envision them all enjoying a nice picnic at the edge of the River and Merry and Frodo having to fish Pippin out of it.
Hai Took · 30 November 2004 · Chapter 7: The Queen's Grief
In a way it was considerate of the Warden to ask after Arwen but what a shock to him, if truly not many believed in Arwen's heritage. Perhaps it was alwo good for Eldarion to speak to him. I must say this was very lovely and made me think "Elves love but once in their lives, lord Warden. Their love is intended to last to the end of Arda, so they give their hearts fully, fully to the ones they love." It gives some more depth to Arwen's sacrafice and the love that she shared with Aragorn. I certainly hope she can find her way back to him!
Author's reply
It is also important to remember that the people of Gondor had had no dealings with Elves for many generations until Aragorn took the throne. The knowledge of the nature of Elves would have been far less in the Southern Kingdom than in the Northern Kingdom, where Elrond's and Gildor's folks as well as those of Thranduil had more frequent interactions with non-Elves.
Bodkin · 30 November 2004 · Chapter 7: The Queen's Grief
Good explanation of Arwen's last months. Interesting how over 112 years, the fact that she was an Elf has become a myth rather than a statement of fact. Given another century, the people of Gondor (and elsewhere) will no longer believe in the existence of elves at all.
Author's reply
I agree, and am glad you are finding so much to respond to in the story.
Raksha The Demon · 29 November 2004 · Chapter 7: The Queen's Grief
One of the best chapters, that reprises JRRT's theme of the fading of the magical and beautiful from Middle-earth - something I hate about the end of LOTR, since I don't want the magic to end. But you write it very well; Arwen's bereavement and the loss of her light since Aragorn took it with her; she cannot last, and though it hurts Eldarion, he accepts it. Interesting that her subjects, epitomized by the well-meaning Warden, are so far removed from the events of LOTR that they can't believe their queen is of Elf-kind. And sad.
Author's reply
When something is with us for so long, we tend to take it for granted. That the Queen should have failed as she did seems, from the book, to have gone remarkably unnoted. And there are already so few Elves left in Middle Earth--once Legolas is gone, how long do you think the colony in Ithilien will continue? Not long, I fear.
grumpy · 29 November 2004 · Chapter 6: A Reunion Long Awaited
great meeting between Frodo, Sam and Bilbo, and how each one was discribed. Lked how Aragorn was transformed to a youth, tall and royal and shining with a clear light, as he crossed the bridge. Also liked the Him seeing his grandaughter and grandson. looking forward to more.
Author's reply
I always thought Aragorn was forced to grow up too soon, and feel he deserves some youth in the end, don't you?
Envinyatar · 27 November 2004 · Chapter 6: A Reunion Long Awaited
Another great chapter, although moving in a somewhat unexpected direction - leaves me wondering why Aragorn should move on so fast, when those as ancient as Elros are still in the Halls of Waiting. Or do they remain behind as well, in the same way they can be in different halls? No doubt all will become clear. Loved the depictions of the different characters, especially Sam the Guardian, and I'm really looking forward to that meeting with Arwen. As for the bells tolling, obviously it's your choice, though I'd vote for changing it to 210. I can't remember if HoME ever explains why Tolkien changed his mind. I had read the 'rebel dwarf' story in HoME, and I also wish that had remained. I didn't realise it had lasted into the 1st edition. There's a complete set on offer on e-Bay just now - for £5000!
Author's reply
The tolling of the bell has been changed to reflect Tolkien's own obvious wishes on the subject. Five thousand pounds? My, I wish I had that much right now--I'd be headed your way very quickly. Want to visit York once more.
grumpy · 27 November 2004 · Chapter 5: “In Whose Mighty Company”
What a great chapter, this is a great story. I love how Aragorn can be several places at one time. That he left himself in the halls of waiting and met more people he knew with the Rohirrim. So sad that Denethor was still trying to heal, loved the part about the mirror, putting in the window and the door, then taking away the mirror. So glad that Denethor went to meet his family, and that Aragorn wanted to be friends.
Author's reply
Thanks for appreciating the imagery.
Imrahoil · 27 November 2004 · Chapter 5: “In Whose Mighty Company”
Interesting, I never expect what's coming next and how you will do it, always a good sign. But you are harsh in your treatment of Denethor or is it just the way I read it? To have him indulging again in his favourite mortal sin is, hmmm, yes, ... harsh. But it's a really good idea and very well written, and one can't say that it's out of character. Speculating now WHAT's coming next and very much looking forward to it.
Author's reply
Pride and envy are difficult sins to divest oneself of, I always have found. Glad this has kept you involved. Hope the newest chapter is as intriguing.
Hai Took · 26 November 2004 · Chapter 5: “In Whose Mighty Company”
I have always pondered what would have happened once those from the War died and this is such a splendid way to have written it! Is everyone able to wander the halls? Like I notice that quite a few are in multiple places but is eveyone allowed to do that? Wow, the whole thing with Denethor was wonderful! Carrying his anger and madness really with him to the grave and beyond was very well done, I am glad that he will live a happy...afterlife. Oh, there can only be another set of people to meet can't there? Where are Sam and Frodo and Bilbo?! I hope that they will make an appearance soon! What a time all of these who love one another can have now that they are turly together forever! Thank you for this wonderful look at what happened after death! Gives a lot for the imagination to chew on!
Author's reply
I would think you'd have to have a strong tie to a different culture, and strong associations on the part of members that culture, too, in order to be able to sit in their particular Hall. Aragorn, as Thorongil or Ælrich, as another fanfic sib had Thengel address him, rode among the Rohirrim for several years, then returned to establish strong relationships with Éomer, Théoden, and Éowyn, and those beside whom he fought at Helms Deep and who followed him to the Black Gate. He would definitely have reason to sit in their Hall as well as that of his own folk. And in order to see there were other halls I think you'd have to have traveled or read widely in your lifetime in order to appreciate others would establish their own images in the Afterlife. The rest of the Edain prior to the establishment of Númenor would probably have been closer in their view of the afterlife than those who followed Elros across the Sea, which is why I had Barahir meet Aragorn there rather than in the Hall of the Dúnedain. In deciding on the presence of different Halls, I was tying into the images Lewis had in The Great Divorce of each person in the grey town creating his own ineffective residence to give himself the illusion of shelter from the rain, and was strongly influenced by his description given by the one who traveled far out to peer into the windows of the great palace constructed by Napoleon, with that individual pacing endlessly blaming everyone else for his failures. If we develop our own Hells, certainly we also develop our own images of proper paradises, as well. Yet all these are illusional in part, particularly if we refuse to go beyond them to the Heart of the matter. And so Aragorn has yet to pass through the Gardens.
Raksha The Demon · 26 November 2004 · Chapter 5: “In Whose Mighty Company”
Wow. A lot of unfinished business is being taken care of in these last two chapters! Tolkien mentioned, I believe in one of the HoME (History of Middle-Earth) volumes, that Faramir and Eowyn's son was named Elboron, which means Faithful Star. HoME is not always considered canonical, so you can get away with naming Faramir's son Boromir, but I've always preferred Elboron, since that would make him one of the three 'El' sons - Eldarion, Elfwine (son of Eomer and Lothiriel) and Elboron. "I had hoped to have one who knew me serve as my Steward in Gondor, one whom I honored, one whose knowledge rivaled my own. Faramir was wise and learned beyond the standard of most men of his day, but he was not you, Denethor." Is Aragorn speaking of his feelings when he began his Kingship, or throughout it? I would think that Faramir's knowledge would have eventually surpassed that of Denethor, since Faramir was a wizard's pupil, had not been deceived and worn out by palantir mind games with Sauron, and since Faramir would have sought knowledge of other realms as well as that of and affecting Gondor. Who's the other Maia who Aragorn sees when coming to Denethor's chamber? Interesting idea that part of Denethor's grudge against Aragorn comes from Finduilas' fondness for Thorongil. I would think that Denethor would have asked Faramir's forgiveness before embracing him and the others of his family - Faramir was the one he had wronged most, and that step, and Faramir's certain forgiveness, would have been the final step in Denethor's healing. Aragorn could bring Denethor to the light, but it wasn't up to Aragorn to forgive Denethor for all his sins, it was up to Denethor to forgive himself, and I think, to do so, he would at least try to seek forgiveness of the one he'd wronged the most.
Author's reply
Aragorn's desire for Denethor as Steward would indeed have been limited to the beginning of his reign. He and Denethor were within a year in age, and he would have had intimate insight into Denethor's leadership style, his competency, and so on; and I have often imagined them, early in his time as Thorongil, before Denethor began to become jealous, sitting together in the evening discussing philosophy and poetry, and Thorongil dodging questions about his background and his knowledge of the Elves and the doings of the northern Dúnedain. At the time of his accession he had seen Faramir only once, after all, when he healed Denethor's son. The only Maia I thought of Aragorn seeing was Olórin. Are you confused because I switched from Aragorn's POV to that of Denethor? We have less control over line spacing on the boards than when we can do proper text, so it isn't always as obvious when the POV changes. If so, I'll look at fixing things. I couldn't remember where I'd seen a name for Faramir and Éowyn's son, so thanks for reminding me of HoME. No, HoME isn't canonical, but it is more so than my own choices for the names of the children, so I will change the name now. As for your observation Denethor ought to have begged Faramir's forgiveness first, I think you're right. Will think on that one.
Envinyatar · 26 November 2004 · Chapter 5: “In Whose Mighty Company”
This just gets better. I though it was done after the first chapter and was surprised to see it was a WIP, not knowing where you could go after that. I'm very glad you did keep going, though. I've enjoyed it immensely and have to echo other comments on your characterisation and style. This last chapter blew me away. I thought you'd avoided the issue of Denethor in the last chapter and didn't blame you for that at all, but you've addressed it beautifully and movingly. I hate when people try to justify Denethor's behaviour by knocking Aragorn, but you've done them both justice. One issue about Aragorn's age. He did live to be 190 in the 1st edition, I believe, but in all later ones it was 210. Lucky you if you have a first edition, I'd love to read one as I think there are other quite significant changes. Thanks again for this, and looking forward to meetings with Frodo, Sam and Arwen whenever they're ready.
Author's reply
This has me very intrigued. I first read LOTR in 63-64, so the first edition was where I first began looking at the appendices. My first personal set was the infamous Ace edition, and I went through two sets of that before my mother got me the hardback editions (the glue was awful). I kept my copy of the Ace ROTK, as I'd noted several differences between it and the second, but I'd NEVER thought to check out the differences between Aragorn's death dates. How odd. The most notable difference in the text itself was that Tolkien had removed a brief temper tantrum Aragorn aimed at Gimli during his recovery from the use of the Palantir: >>"You forget to whom you speak," said Aragorn sternly, and his eyes glinted. "What do you fear that I should say: that I had a rascal of a rebel dwarf here that I would gladly exchange for a serviceable orc? Nay, Gimli," he said in a softer voice....<< Now, that loss caught my attention the very first time I read the second edition. I have the hardback first edition of FOTR, but the second editions of TTT and ROTK, both of which had been out of stock when Mom tried to get me the set for my birthday at age fifteen. But when I was checking Aragorn's death date I was indeed reading from my Ace edtion. What say you--should I change the number of the tolls of the bell once more? Author Reply: Okay, the age has been changed to reflect Tolkien's change of mind from second edition on.
harrowcat · 24 November 2004 · Chapter 4: The Halls of Waiting
Larner, I have been wandering with wonder through your writing, (all of your stories,) And getting very little done in RL! Thank you so much for such a depth of emotion. You have developed the characters in ways that are very true to the way I feel about them and yet kept an element of distance or specialness that is in keeping with the subject matter. Brilliant stuff, I can't wait until you post more.
Author's reply
Thank you for the honor.
Lindelea · 24 November 2004 · Chapter 4: The Halls of Waiting
My goodness, such a roll call of names that I'm beginning to come to know, as I research history for the sake of "Thain". What fun to see Arvedui! And all the others... Boromir, restored to his brother's side. And to know that Denethor is there, also, even though he's still healing. It brought a smile of wonder to my face to see all these esteemed souls honour Aragorn. And a smile of delight at the thought of Mandos and his wary watchfulness. And Olorin sounds just as I have imagined him. Nicely done. (I wonder, is your Mandos a joyful being as well? I cannot imagine it being called "Gift" of Illuvatar if a sombre being was in charge of it.) You have a typo, I think, for this does not read smoothly: He could no longer fight the command he turn to the West, and afar he saw the way he must go, straighter than the Straight Path. On the whole, however, this was marvellously done, and I eagerly anticipate his reunion with Frodo and Sam! (and Arwen, eventually)
Author's reply
Will think on that one. Have one other sentence earlier that bothers me, and cannot think how to change it. Thanks.
- · 24 November 2004 · Chapter 4: The Halls of Waiting
this was a really good chapter.....i really enjoyed it and i hope aragorn gets re-united with arwen soon
Author's reply
Well, it's a year in the mortal world before she accepts the Gift. We'll see how it plays out.
lwarren · 23 November 2004 · Chapter 3: He Who Was as a Son
This was unexpected - and perfect. I loved the way Aragorn's spirit passed those in Aman on his way to the Uttermost West and acknowledged them with love as he passed. The conversation between Elrond, Olorin, Celebrian, Galadriel and Celelborn was revealing in itself. So they knew when he made his choice and the moment of his death - a sundering of a link with one they loved. How lovely and characteristic of the elves, too. This is a deeply touching story, Larner. linda
lwarren · 23 November 2004 · Chapter 2: Time of Honor
the actual moment of Aragorn's death Gimli and Legolas crafting the last headpiece for their friend to wear the tolling of the bell the procession the sight of Merry and Pippin's tombs to stand as guards on either side of their liege lord Arwen (the image of her all in black standing by his bier - the part in the movie TTT that still makes me cry is Arwen's vision and/or Elrond's words evoking the picture of Aragorn's death for her...that picture and the words from the Appendices he spoke that were so rending) I cannot say anything else - all these moments from this chapter make me feel like I was in the crowd when they carried him by. Oh my! linda
Author's reply
I see I didn't respond to some of the reviews of earlier chapters. I am so glad you found the imagery so moving, for I did, too. I've tried to stay true to canon as much as possible, while looking at how Aragorn would have tried to settle the day.
lwarren · 23 November 2004 · Chapter 1: A Bell Tolls
Ah, Larner, this is so sad! I read it the other day at school and cried (do you know how embarassing that can be?). I reread it tonight and cried again! It is such an intimate look into the last hours of Aragorn's life. He has a choice and that gives him time to make all the little preparations that might have been made by others otherwise. Even sadder! His clothes, the crown, the scepter, the sword...hard enough to deal with those little details as I read (I did the same for my Adar last year - almost to the day). But the goodbyes to his family and friends - he was prepared to go, but how hard for them! And Arwen...I can't even begin to imagine. This was a wonderfully written piece - so poignant! It's hard to put into words how touching this was...so I'll just say It was! linda
grumpy · 23 November 2004 · Chapter 3: He Who Was as a Son
I love this story, and the way you have written it. The first couple of chapters, I needed plenty of kleenexs for. Loved the part about his wanting to pass outside, and not in the building. This chapter is wonderful, with Gandalf being in grey, and his knowing what is going to happen. The part about the shining form, full of joy, was great. looking forward to more
Raksha The Demon · 23 November 2004 · Chapter 3: He Who Was as a Son
Lovely image of Aragorn's freed soul on its way to final rest, pausing to honor the Elves and Gandalf who stood in vigil to await him. I liked your having Celeborn reunited with Galadriel...
Author's reply
I know the reuniting isn't book canon, although the appendices speak of his remaining in Middle Earth till the last ship sailed as a "maybe." And I felt he really ought to be reunited with his Lady, which is why I did so on "Filled with Light as with Water." Thanks for the kind words.
Bodkin · 22 November 2004 · Chapter 3: He Who Was as a Son
I'm glad to see Elrond, Gandalf and Celebrian both knowing and grieving for Aragorn. Their fears for Arwen are very understandable. This eternal division bit is very hard on those who have to live with it.
Author's reply
Agreed. Thanks for the review. Although as a Maia, particularly one who has experienced death, Gandalf might have more freedom than some.
Lindelea · 22 November 2004 · Chapter 3: He Who Was as a Son
Ah, how fitting, that there should be a final farewell between the Elves and Aragorn, and that they should hope for Arwen's swift reunion with her beloved. Lovely writing, as ever!
Author's reply
Yes, they all need to say goodbye, Aragorn and those who knew and loved him. And I can't say for certain why it should have been as Gandalf the Grey the recognition from that one came, except that it was Gandalf the Grey who, in his time, fell. As for their prayers for Arwen, am not so certain their prayers are for her being reunited with her love as much as for relief for her suffering.
Meldewen Ilce · 22 November 2004 · Chapter 3: He Who Was as a Son
Um, okay, forget what I said earlier about the use of the words 'father' and 'Adar' together as I now understand that Aragorn had been having visions of Arathorn and Elrond looking on him together... *ahem* Anyway, this chapter was lovely as well! I DO love your writing and cannot wait to see more of this story!
Author's reply
One reason why I hadn't responded to your post earlier, as I knew it would be answered here. Thanks.