Time's Turnings by daw the minstrel

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Elena Tiriel · 12 January 2005 · Chapter 1: Family Time

Remember how Nilmandra has taught you to show, not tell? I vote for you showing us Celuwen taking Eilian in hand. - Barbara

Author's reply

Hey! I already wrote one smut scene for them, and several semi-smuts. Go reread. I have to go to a very boring meeting that's going to last a long time and by the time I get out, an ice storm is supposed to have hit.

tigerlily713 · 12 January 2005 · Chapter 1: Family Time

I've been following along with all of your stories, but I no longer have a computer available, so I have to go to the library and print them all off. I'm sorry I've been negligent in reviewing your wonderful stories! What a beautiful beginning to a no doubt wonderful story! The meloncholy and frustration that Legolas feels is very well written. I can't wait to read more! Lily

Author's reply

Wow. No computer. I'm sitting here thinking about that. That would be hard! I'm glad you're continuing to enjoy these stories though, Lily. Thank you for letting me know.

The Karenator · 12 January 2005 · Chapter 1: Family Time

I just had this huge moment of identifying with Alfirin. As a female who lives in an all male household, I know exactly what she means about feeding the marauder-ing hordes. Most of the time if it's not moving, they'll eat it. And the part where Sinnarn rolls his eyes at her joke, yep, I identify with that too. My oldest son did an essay when he was the eighth grade on how his mother thinks she's funny, but she's not. Well! I am too funny. So is Alfirin. If we didn't have a sense of humor we'd never stay with a bunch of guys and see that they get honey on their parsnips. At least Eilian and Legolas have been deprived enough while being on patrol that they have some appreciation for what a good job Alfirin does. Loved the age old question: Is your homework done? And the surly response from the student. Yep...been there too. Sinnarn is finding out why Legolas was so anxious to have someone younger than he is in the family. But Ithilden, the over-organized, has his hands full with this child. The world is logical and straightforward to Ithilden and to have to direct a child that is a free spirit is quite mind boggling, I'm sure. He should talk dear old dad. Thranduil has one of those too. And Thranduil seems thoroughly amused to see his oldest son navigate those waters. Perhaps Ithilden can just 'tell' Sinnarn how to behave like he wanted the servant husband to tell his wife a while back. Let's see how well it works. But then again, I guess Ithilden's already tried that! Oh, Ithilden...Gotta love him. Two brothers on the town was fun. Poor Legolas. He's still so intent on being seen as grown up that he fails to see that parents will NEVER stop being concerned. Eventually, I imagine he'll realize that it's a growth process for both parent and child. Old habits die hard and some never go away, they just morph into a more congenial understanding. As irritating as it is, Legolas should be pleased that his father loves him enough to care. Legolas probably does appreciate it, just not on this night. Legolas's observations about Eilian were nice. Eilian is just a natural social butterfly and Legolas isn't. I liked the way you drew the contrast between them. Good show, your minstrelship. I'm so glad to have you home. I hope the trip was relaxing and you're all geared up for chapter two. Welcome home. Karen

Author's reply

I think you're funny, Karen. My son used to roll his eyes at me too. He's kind of getting over that now. Ithilden is learning some big lessons. He should be okay in the long run. He seems to have done well with Alfirin, so there's hope for him with Sinnarn too, I would think. I'm sure Thranduil is remembering every time that Ithilden was sure he knew better than Thranduil did how to handle Eilian or Legolas. And really, Ithilden should now be seeing that Legolas was a pretty docile child compared to Sinnarn -- slippery but docile. I'm trying to think about what it means to be an elf adult in this story. I'd say it's not the same thing as coming of age, but they don't seem to have many of the markers that we do for adulthood. They are organized into "houses" for instance, so they probably don't leave home. Think about that one! Eilian is a wood-elf. He's been driving his father mad for years now and is not about to stop until Celulwen takes him in hand. Wait -- that sounded wrong. Until he and Celuwen bond. I'm at work this week and I'm still sick with a cold and kind of oddly dizzy from the boat, I think. But I'm hanging in there. I have about half of chapter 2 drafted and will write as soon as this building (and all others) stops rocking from side to side.

Alice · 11 January 2005 · Chapter 1: Family Time

The nice thing about SoA is that it lets me leave more than one review in case I forgot to mention something I thought was spiffy in the first go around. I loved the little discussion on Legolas's new horse. Aw, the baby's buying his first car all by himself. It sort of struck me like that. I like how your elves while intrinsically woodelf ( notice the singing) also have bits of humanity that I can relate to. Also, loved the bit about Sinnarn and his friends' appetites. I imagine Alfirin would revel in feeding adolescents. So, just some stuff I forgot to mention. Carry on.

Author's reply

In general, I love SoA's review system. Yes, Legolas is buying his first "car," and he wants a sporty model, while Thranduil thinks he needs something more practical -- a little Honda Horse maybe. I think Alfirin is one of those females whose first instinct is to feed anyone in trouble. I wish she'd come to my house once in a while.

Alice · 11 January 2005 · Chapter 1: Family Time

You know, as much as I love Celuwen, this other girl isn't so bad. She makes sure she's not poaching on Celuwen's territory and sticks up for Legolas being an adult. Definitely an improvement on the girl Eilian necked with on Legolas's birthday. At least his taste is improving, even if his maturity still has a ways to go. Sinnarn is great. I love seeing Ithilden frustrated. It's sick, but he's in control so often, it's nice to see him flustered. Also, nice seeing Alfirin get them both to behave. Heh. No one's gonna pick on her baby round her, even if its the daddy. I noticed that the family was more relaxed about talking about business in front of her in the Garden. Of course, they were more relaxed and general. I also find myself agreeing with Alfirin in trying to keep the family time free of the business chit chat since they all seem to disagree on business matters during the rest of the week. Of course, watching Sinnarn and Ithilden together, I imagine that lately family time has just been a little bit tense. Poor Alfirin, so many stubborn males, so little time to civilize them. I enjoyed the last little bit with Legolas thinking about girls. Poor lonely elf. He needs a girlfriend to jolly him up a bit. Maybe his musician friend can set him up. Oh, also I like how Eilian's first thought was that he didn't think the girl Legolas was all buddy buddy with was that into young guys. He's just such a flirt. And a protective older brother. Nice thought about him worrying about whether his friends are appropriate to be influencing his baby brother. Very nice work on his POV that way. Actually, very nice work on the POVs in this chapter in general. I look forward greatly to the next chapter. Action in this one right? I find that I've missed the orcs and wargs and all the dangerous little critters of the Mirkwood forest. I'm not the only antsy one, judging by Legolas's desire to see another patrol. Which I've just noticed fits rather well with his love of travel as seen in his agreeing to go on a lovely tour of Middle Earth with a planned culmination in Mordor. Silly wandering elf. Update soon!

Author's reply

That's a good point, Alice. The girl du jour is not so bad, and I suspect she knows just how lightly Eilian is taking this, so she's probably not likely to be hurt. If you could take the right attitude, Eiliah would be a lot of fun to be with. I too am enjoying Sinnarn the Adolescent sticking it to Dear Old Dad, and what's more, I'll bet Thranduil is enjoying it immensely. I hope he's thinking about all those times that Ithilden thought he knew better than Thranduil did about how a son should be raised. This was a nice, relaxed family scene for all of them, even though there were moments of irritation. There will indeed be action in this story. I have another domestic chapter coming up and then Legolas is back to his patrol and we'll be trying to figure out what's up with the dwarves.

Brazgirl · 11 January 2005 · Chapter 1: Family Time

Hi Daw!!! I am very happy to read from you again. I've been reading your fics lately and I am so absorbed by your characters... I can say I am in love with Eilian... Some of your fics are on my top list, really. Your OCs are so believable, so real, so enchanting! Reading Sinnarn as a grown up warrior was a bit weird... As a teen is better!!! Thranduil was very interesting in this fic... he was a little reluctant about Legolas going out with his trouble boy. Will you write about him when he is a little more cooled down with Eilian, after he bonded with Celuwen? Those stories about Eilian and Celuwen were so delightful... I wish I could express myself better to tell you how much I adore your plots. Your work is among the best in the internet, be sure of it.

Author's reply

Hi, Brazgirl! Sad to say, there are days when I'm in love with Eilian too, although I expect he'd be kind of exasperating to live with. I'm eventually going to write about later times more too. I want to write about the time after the Battle of Five Armies, when it seems to me an elfling would be a good idea. But there's also that long stretch between his marriage and the battle. We'll see. Thank you for these very kind words.

sofia · 11 January 2005 · Chapter 1: Family Time

another nice beginning to a story. Legolas need's to move to other border patrols, though I can understand the hesitation from his family. -sofia

Author's reply

Yes, I think Legolas needs wider experience. By the time he's 100, he's in the northern border patrol, hunting dragons, so he gets it eventually, but for now, he must feel pretty frustrated.

Bodkin · 11 January 2005 · Chapter 1: Family Time

I'm trying to remember when Eilian became Captain of the Southern Patrol. Wasn't he younger than Legolas is now? It's no wonder Legolas gets rather irritated by the babying. He's still confined to the safest patrol in the East and has been for the last 30 years. Of course, Eilian was really promoted far too young - even though there was no alternative and he is very good at what he does. But it must be galling.

Author's reply

Let me think about that. I think he might have been a shade older. He gets made captain in "Growing Under Shadow" and Legolas is 27 in that one which means Eilian was 87. I expect that Legolas knows that quite well and can't decide whether to be insulted or ticked off!

Dot · 11 January 2005 · Chapter 1: Family Time

Hi daw. Great to see you back! How was the holiday?? I was delighted to see everyone in this chapter! I was only thinking about Sinnarn recently – I want to know what happened with him and Emmelin! – so I was particularly happy that he reappeared. I don’t think you’ve shown us what he was like as a teenager before. I really enjoyed the opening – you had me smiling from the start. Honey on the parsnips, eh? Sounds like a good trick. I should try it myself because I can’t stand the things. It’s actually a little strange to see Legolas so regretful about Sinnarn growing up and wanting to become a warrior when we’ve become used to Thranduil and co. feeling that way about Legolas. Of course, this particular family have plenty of room for worrying about more than one person and if Legolas is still in the Eastern Border patrol then their protective tendencies are as strong as ever. Is Eilian still being moved every few years? Or maybe that was a later decision, I can’t really remember. I loved the image of them all singing together. Very elfy. And it really creates an idea of how relaxed they are with each other. No wonder Ithilden was smiling. I felt quite bad for Legolas and Eilian and their slight discomfort at seeing such love between their brother and sister-in-law when they can’t help wanting that for themselves (although Eilian could have it but hasn’t learned to behave himself yet;-)), but it’s an absolute joy to see how happy Ithilden and Alfirin are. “Did you finish your lessons, Sinnarn?” That’s right, Ithilden. It wouldn’t do to let the peace last too long… I thought it was a little unfair that he brought up Sinnarn’s disobedience in front of his uncles, but I suppose they’re hardly under the illusion that he’s a model child… Legolas may have managed to control himself but I admit I did laugh out loud when Ithilden and Sinnarn adopted the same sulky expressions! So Ithilden has just said that Galelas has been injured and the Western border patrol have seen a lot of Orcs and spiders and then Legolas asks if he can be transferred there?? Like that’ll work. Actually, he came across remarkably like Eilian there. Of course, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Legolas does indeed end up there but I’d like to know how he’d wangle it in the end. I think that when it comes to his brothers, Ithilden needs to feel that he either has no other choice, or that the posting would be the best thing for either the patrol or whichever brother. Still, Legolas will need to get experience of other patrols sooner or later. *sigh* Dwarves and Men. There’s always something. I appreciate Ithilden’s point of view and it must be a constant battle for him to stop Thranduil just giving up on them entirely but I can see why Thranduil gets frustrated. Then again, can you imagine what it must be like for the poor Men who have to deal with both the Dwarves and the scary Elvenking?! “What would it be like to have your elders age and grow feeble, so that you had to undertake their duties? How would it feel to have to care for them and then watch them die?” Ouch. That’s a sad enough thought for we mortals and painful to deal with but it must be both incomprehensible and appalling to an elf. I just adore the relationship between Thranduil and Sinnarn. It seems so completely based on simple love. Thranduil makes a wonderful grandfather. Remember him beaming with pride when elfling Sinnarn bowed to Mithrandir or talking to him in the garden after the wine incident? That’s a real grandfather. There are a lot of similarities between Sinnarn and Legolas, particularly in the way that their family treats them but I think there are some major differences too. Apart from the fact that he has both parents to care for him, Sinnarn also has Thranduil as a fairly uncomplicated presence in his life. For Legolas, Thranduil was a parent who could therefore be either angry or affectionate, but while I’m sure he’s lost his cool with Sinnarn a time or two, he largely just provides love. Legolas could have done with someone like that. Plus, when Legolas was the age Sinnarn is now he had experienced a lot more. Unless I just don’t know about Sinnarn’s adventures yet! What real difference that makes in the way their family views them, I don’t really know. I wonder when Elves are finally seen as true adults? It actually seems in your stories to be when they marry, and especially when they have children of their own. I mean, Siondel was Eilian’s age but even Thranduil has long treated him as an adult because he was Annael’s father. And Eilian’s relationship with his father became a little more adult once he married Celuwen, and I imagine it would improve if he ever had elflings of his own. How odd, then for Legolas should Sinnarn marry Emmelin and have children… Oops, I’ve been rambling, haven’t I?? Sorry. That’s what happens when you’re supposed to be cataloguing books and get bored… Ah, Legolas and undisciplined horses! I guess he had to give dear old Pilin up a long time ago so. I kind of hope he does choose the grey stallion ;-) I think Ithilden is a little too aware of what kind of activities Eilian enjoys to let Sinnarn go! It must be some bit amusing to Thranduil to watch Ithilden have the very same problems as he did. Besides, Ithilden may have been a solemn little soul but I bet he desperately wanted to be seen as ‘grown up’ more so than any of them. I had to laugh at the description of Thranduil finding fatherhood an “exasperating experience”. That sums it up, really! I really liked the scene with Eilian and the cook! I love how well Cook seems to know the family and how genuinely fond of them, especially of Eilian, he seems. Eilian amuses me too at how much he thinks he understands Legolas’ situation and sympathises with him for feeling as though he’s being treated as a child, and yet alters his plans when baby brother comes along and thinks that he is too young to be moved to a different patrol. *snort* Legolas and Eilian certainly seem to have an entirely different taste in female companions!! Is that a note of bitterness I detect when Eilian thinks of Celuwen??! Duty always seems to play on Legolas’ mind when he tries to have fun. Eilian lives very much in the moment, but Legolas just isn’t like that and never will be. I can see why he’d envy Eilian, though. Right, I’ll do a bit more work before it’s time to close… This is wonderful, daw. I’m looking forward to seeing where you take us :-)

Author's reply

My vacation was great! We went to New Orleans and then to the Caribbean. What could be better? I've never before written about Sinnarn as an adolescent. I showed him as a little kid (in "The Warrior") and then jumped straight to showing him as a warrior (in "Fire and Shadow"). So this is kind of fun. I'll eventually write about the time after the Battle of Five Armies, and he and Emmelin should be in that. I'm working on the next chapter of this story right now and Emmelin is more or less a gleam in her parents' eyes. Eilian is indeed being moved away from the south every other year. He broke down in "Tide of Times" and was recovering in "The Warrior" and that's when Ithilden said "never again." In her review of this chapter, Elena Tiriel said the same thing about Ithilden publicly scolding Sinnarn. I wasn't thinking that way at all. I thought this was all in the family, so to speak. But when I read her comment and yours, I got to wondering if maybe the fact that they all live together might make them be even more careful about stuff like this because otherwise they'd have no privacy at all. I'm laughing at your image of the men caught between the dwarves and Thranduil. They'd need cast iron nerves and a good bit of slick talk (We might say "blarney." Would you say that?), I would think. In this story, one of the things I'm trying to think about a little is what adulthood means to elves. The relations between the generations would have to be different, you would think. Even the concept of "generation" might be odd. One thing is for sure: you probably can't count of being promoted because the previous guy retired. So your speculations on Sinnarn vs. Legolas and also on when you get to be thought of as an adult were interesting to me. I think you must have to accept some responsibilities, but since elves were organized in "houses" you probably didn't just move out and prove you could pay rent and show up in clean underwear every day. I have plans for us to see a little bit of Ithilden as an adolescent. He was probably quite different from Eilian (and Sinnarn) but I expect he had his own quirks. I liked writing about the cook too. I think that Eilian is someone who would amuse everyone else far more than he does his father. He's good hearted and kind and most of us are glad enough for that. He's a wood elf, I guess.

Ms. Whatsit · 11 January 2005 · Chapter 1: Family Time

I liked Thranduil's spoiling of his grandson compared to his sons--with Sinnarn, Thranduil can be Good Cop all the time. Yeesh, poor Legolas. Must be annoying to be grouped with his nephew. Eilian doesn't care about Celuwen, hmm? *snort* Keep telling yourself that, sweetheart.

Author's reply

I think that Thranduil is an absolutely brilliant grandfather. He can see that Sinnarn has plenty of parenting from Ithilden and Alfirin. All the kid needs from him is love, and that's all Thranduil wants to provide anyway. Legolas is closer in age to Sinnarn than he is to Eilian even, but he's still an adult and Sinnarn is so plainly a kid that being grouped with him must really rankle. Eilian wants to know who you're calling "sweetheart" and can he come over please.

caz-baz · 11 January 2005 · Chapter 1: Family Time

That was a good opening to what i imagine is going to be another one of your brilliant stories. I only just finished reading your last story which was excellent and very real in the sense of how Legolas was feeling and i must say it gave me a better percpective of Alfirin. until next chapter. caz-baz

Author's reply

You know, I got to know Alfirin a lot better by writing that story too. She'd always been kind of a stereotype to me until then. There's nothing like trying to write from a character's point of view to make them deeper and more real to me. Thanks, Caz.

Manderly · 11 January 2005 · Chapter 1: Family Time

Just from reading the first chapter, I can see how appropriate the title of your story is. The parallel between Eilian's thinking and Legolas' thinking was both interesting and amusing. Legolas was cringing for Sinnarn while Eilian was doing the same thing for him. Then there is Ithilden and Thranduil, the strict adars. Alot of "been there, done that" from all present. It's nice to see Legolas and Eilian relaxing from their patrol duties, but I don't suppose the peace will last and I am looking forward to whatever excitement you have in store for us. I see that Legolas is not receptive of his brother's female interest for the evening, as usual. Such a serious and responsible elf sometimes!

Author's reply

It's fun to see the sort of layers of age here. You have people like Thranduil, who's clearly an adult by anyone's standards. I think the same is true of Ithilden and, interestingly enough, Alfirin, even though she's the same age as Eilian. Her marriage and motherhood, her acceptance of these responsibilities, have moved her into the adult camp. Eilian has responsibilities in his work and that helps establish him as somewhat adult, but his personal life is kind of a mess. And Legolas is still untried in a lot of ways. Legolas has always taken a while to warm up to his brothers' girlfriends. He's possessive of those he loves, I think, a sign of his early loss.

thechevin · 11 January 2005 · Chapter 1: Family Time

I was so pleased to see a new story from you and am already enjoying this very much I love the family dynamics that you have set in place. The way Alfirin keeps the family together and out of argument (mostly!)She is quiet but determined and apparently the family know this! Then there is dashing Eilian who sympathises with Legolas over his over protective Adar but is just as protective of his 'brat' in his own way and of course Legolas still in that middle ground an adult in name but not quite in other ways. As for his thoughts about freedom as an adult how true they were and how little things really changed he exchanged one set of restrictions for another it seems this new story has made my week thank you Judy

Author's reply

Alfirin has been good for them all. I think Lorellin would have been too and the kind of lost their way for a while when she died. Although I also think that Thranduil did his best. I've wondered for quite a while what effect elven immortality (and their organization into "houses") might have on how they define adulthood. It can't be quite the same as for us. We expect to leave home and establish our own household, for one thing. I think it might be tricky. I'm glad to have made your week, Judy!

Jay of Lasgalen · 11 January 2005 · Chapter 1: Family Time

So Eilian doesn't care if Celuwen goes and marries some other elf? Yes, and pigs might fly, Eilian! I like to see him and Legolas together, so hope you'll make the most of their two days. I liked the quiet family atmosphere of this chapter, but have the feeling that the trouble on the Western border will rear its ugly head before long. Jay

Author's reply

I have plans for some interaction between Legolas and Eilian, but Legolas has to go back to his patrol soon, so it might not take place at home. :-) In other words, I think we're going east rather than west in this story. Eilian is such a dense male.

Elena Tiriel · 11 January 2005 · Chapter 1: Family Time

Hmmm, on second reading: has Gwelid grown too old for the task, or too dead for the task? He could easily have been ambushed and replaced by a non-trustworthy Man. Oh, wait, maybe that's been done before...? - Barbara

Author's reply

LOL. He got old! Trust me!

Bodkin · 11 January 2005 · Chapter 1: Family Time

You know you're really, really grown up when you find it quite pleasurable to be treated as a kid for a few hours. Legolas is still at the 'when is he going to realise I'm holding down a well-paid job; I have my own car and flat and can even deal with plumbers on my own?' phase of maturity. (Answer: never.) It must be rather galling to watch him let Sinnarn get away with things, while at the same time Thranduil twitches every time Legolas wants to do anything. On the other hand, watching Sinnarn wind Ithilden up must be rather amusing. I hope pictures are flashing through Thranduil's brain of every time he caught Ithilden looking at him as Legolas misbehaved and he saw him thinking 'I could do this so much better.' I'd like the memories to be apparent to Legolas, too - but, hey, he was an adolescent himself at the time - he won't have noticed anything beyond his own angst. Love Alfirin feeding up the family. Large quantities and honey. She seems to have grasped the essentials. I wonder if Thranduil looks at her as she steps between father and son and sees Lorellin doing the same - mostly for his second son, but also . . . I am looking forward to the possibility of Ithilden's 'teenage' phase being fleshed out. Being terribly responsible could actually lead to some quite interesting infractions. Although I think he is unlikely to have spent much time gambling or flirting with irresponsible wenches. Definitely not the latter, considering how long he took to be able to speak to Alfirin. (I wonder how long he took to get from speaking to her to revealing his more poetic side?) I just love the family dynamics between these people - and the more you write about them and the more you take up different points of view, the stronger they all get. They are all real people and I can't help but want to follow all their stories. (Another story that quite interests me: what did Eilian do in their elflinghood that made Alfirin so wary of him?) I won't make any guesses about where this is going. I'm just going to sit back and enjoy it - and hope they get to spend some quality time together. (And that Ithilden has a LOT of trouble with his son. I look forward to Legolas apologising to his father for having been exactly the same kind of pain a mere forty years before. And to Thranduil (and Ithilden) noticing that Legolas is now grown up. Almost.)

Author's reply

As I recall, you suggested some of the ideas I'm interested in here, Bodkin -- the nature of elven adulthood, Sinnarn as an evil adolescent, and eventually, memories of Ithilden's past too. :-) What I found was that my son knew exactly how to reduce me to sputtering rage within five minutes of entering the house. Kids are brilliant, really. They're like ethnographers who have spent years observing the natives and are now acting on their knowledge. Yeah, Ithilden's offenses would be pretty different from Eilian's, although they might grow from the same impulse to become his own person. I like the fact that he so clearly adult in the "present." Thranduil accepts him more or less as an equal. But he's had 600 years to get there. You are just full of plot bunnies, Bodkin! I think you can guess the kind of stuff Eilian would have done that Alfirin would definitely not have approved of. She has a strong moral streak. I suppose the devil (and fun) is in the details though.

Elena Tiriel · 11 January 2005 · Chapter 1: Family Time

Ah, a new story! Excellent timing... I just finished reading all your other stories, and was desperate for more... Love the way Alfirin keeps Ithilden in line when he starts to correct Sinnarn publicly and unnecessarily. Ithilden was being soooo Thranduilish then -- he really needs Alfirin to keep his parenting instincts in check. (A modest suggestion: "Listen up, Ithilden, because I'm your wife and I'm only going to tell you this once: I do not care how many times your father humiliated you and your brothers publicly, I WILL NOT ALLOW you to treat our son that way." and then start playing with the flower-cutting knife from the last story. Just kidding, of course ;-D) It's good that Thranduil is taking a laissez-faire attitude toward Sinnarn, but I really felt Legolas' resentment when he tried to interfere with Legolas' decision on the horse. (Can you tell?) I'm glad to see Eilian, Legolas, and (of course) Ithilden all home at the same time... and I'm sure you'll make the most of the opportunity for family interaction! Looking forward to it... and BTW what in the world is going on in the Western patrol? And with the Dwarves? I'm sure you'll let us know... (but I really hope the Dwarves don't do anything to justify Thranduil's suspicion; I really like the fact that Ithilden is working so hard to overcome T's prejudices for the overall good of the kingdom...) - Barbara

Author's reply

I just finished reading all your other stories--that's the kind of statement that always warms my heart toward a reader and also makes me want to lie down. Weren't you on overdose? I wonder how "public" this correction of Sinnarn would seem. I was thinking that it was all in the family and most people will scold one of their children in front of a sibling. But maybe in a situation like this, where they all live together, it's even more important to draw a line or you're never going to have any privacy. I think we're going to be going east rather than west in this story, but we'll see.

Antigone Q · 10 January 2005 · Chapter 1: Family Time

This will be an interesting story. When you are 900 years old, doesn't everyone look young? And what is the difference between "coming of age" and "becoming an adult?" I look forward to seeing where you go. Nice parallels between Sinnarn's family and Legolas's. I loved Alfirin's intervention between her husband and her son; that whole conversation could have gone downhill fast without it. I am sure Thranduil's wife did the same thing once upon a time. Alfirin was just the right person for Ithilden to bond with, wasn't she? And I chortled over Thranduil-as-indulgent-grandfather - oh, that is SO delicious. I hope you play around more with that: I love watching his children trying to wrap their minds around it. The trouble with going into the past is that you see everything from a different perspective. Eilian has a walk with a maiden and I keep thinking, "But...but...he belongs with Celuwen!"

Author's reply

See that question--"what is the difference between "coming of age" and "becoming an adult"--is exactly the one I'm interested in here. Elves are organizes by "houses," so they probably don't usually move away from their parents, which is one of the ways we establish ourselves as adults. And there are so many adults around! People who were running things when you were born and aren't going away any time soon. It occurred to me that the presence of young household members of different ages might make it possible to look at this a little bit. Yeah, you're right about Eilian. What a dolt.

firnsarnien · 10 January 2005 · Chapter 1: Family Time

Oh happy,happy, joy, joy! Another story from ya! Woo hoo! Now I really have something to look forward to every day (or every update) ;) and something to get lost in again! *sigh* And this one is turning out quite nicely, as usual! Great time period! Leggy's not quite as grown up as he would like and his family certainly treats him that way. I was actually suprised though, at the age difference between Sinnarn and Leggy. I'm sure you've mentioned it before (you must have) and I just missed it. I truly thought Leggy was *much* older than Sinnarn and Eilian was *much* older than Leggy. Sinnarn is pretty close to Leggy's age, for Elves that it. It just makes for an interesting fact I'd always thought otherwise of. :) Hmmmm, this maiden that Eilian is wandering off with, she wouldn't happen to be the same one that Celuwen's father accuses him of galavanting off with instead of staying true to Celuwen would she? You know, the one Celuwen's father refers to in The Warrior? Hmmm, no, that couldn't be right, cause if this story takes place between The Warrior and Fire and Shadow, he can't barely be keeping company with her. Hmmm, definitely it's been too long since I've re-read all your stories again. I think I'm going to have to go do that, especially since you've got this new gem out and I don't want to miss any details. My memory is choosing a horrible time to take a vacation, no? ;) LOL Oh, and before I forget, I loved the "almost" disapproving look Leggy gave Eilian there at the end. How the tables have turned, usually it's him getting the disapproving looks from his brothers. LOL Well, another great chappy. I so can't wait for the next one, as usual. You know me, I'm gonna be begging, hinting, threatening, groveling, grasping at straws, crying, you know, all the usual stuff for this story and each chappy! ;) See what you've created! LOL It's your fault! LOL :) No, really, hurry k? LOL

Author's reply

Elven ages are really tricky to think about because they're so different than ours. Legolas is of age and all that, but he's actually closer in age to Sinnarn than he is to Eilian. You remember that Sinnarn was born at the end of Legolas's first year as a novice, which I set at about age 40, or the eqivalent of human 16 year old. I've used this maiden's name once before, in "Sacrifice Under Shadow." There are flashbacks to Eilian's youth in that story and in one of them, he's dancing with a pretty maiden and ticking Celuwen off. This is that maiden. He's so stupidly male. He wants Celuwen, and how he thinks this will help, I have no idea.

French Pony · 10 January 2005 · Chapter 1: Family Time

Oh, a family story! The family stories always fascinate me. Sometimes, your royal family is very much like mine, but mostly, it's a much different dynamic. I just got back from spending a couple of weeks with my family, and it's interesting to compare. I think I'd like to have a grandfather like Thranduil. He's a nice guy, and he knows when to be King and when to be just the paterfamilias. And he's nice to the daughters-in-law. That must make for really relaxing family get-togethers. There is no mystery at all to feeding males. If you put a large amount of food in front of them, most of them are happy, although they are happier if you also sprinkle honey on some of it. Yes, very true. And it's astonishing just how much food males can consume. Thranduil's family seems to produce mostly boys. . . the food budget must be through the roof. If Eilian ends up with a daughter, everyone will be completely mystified as to how much to feed her. And of course, it's an army family. Any home cooking will taste good to the lads. So Sinnarn doesn't care for parsnips? Maybe it's because he hasn't had them done right. They taste kind of spicy, like radishes, but they're woody, and it's hard to cook them so the texture is good but the flavor isn't all boiled away. I did them up with vegetable broth, olive oil, bay leaves and rosemary, and they came out pretty well. Perhaps Alfirin would like the recipe? Harmony singing in the garden. . . nothing like. When you get a group of people together who know how to sing harmony, and one of them finds a spot with just the right acoustics and starts singing "Angel Band," and then one by one, everyone joins in, it's such a lovely thing to do and hear and be part of. People really need to sing more. And that's my studied opinion as a baby ethnomusicologist. Ah, the joys of being adult kids and heading out on your own, and seeing the parental unit(s) let you go. It's free and grown-up and wonderful, and best of all, you know in the back of your head that there's someone to come home to. It's the best part about being an unmarried young adult visiting home. I must remind myself that reading family-oriented stories right after watching two hours of social engineering films is a bad idea, kind of like how toothbrushing makes orange juice taste bad. Did you ever have to watch social engineering films in school, the kind with titles like "What To Do On A Date" or "Your Junior High Days?" Those things are scary! The ones produced by Centron are the freakiest -- all these outcast, maladjusted kids mocked by the narrators. I like your lessons on family life much better.

Author's reply

I've made parsnip soup and thought it was pretty good actually, but I didn't try to feed it to my son, who rolls his eyes at stuff like that. Your way sounds really good to me. Alfirin might like the recipe indeed. She's one of the mother-ish people who like to feed others. One of the things I'm trying to do in this story is speculate a little on what marks an elf as an adult, which I think may be different than being fully grown or of age. You know how in your Finrod story he was still living with his father and subject to the discipline of the head of the household? That's the kind of thing that must complicate the process for elves. They don't just leave. Why were you watching those films? The only time I've seen one in recent years, it was being MSTed.

esamen · 10 January 2005 · Chapter 1: Family Time

A double date between brothers? (Grin) A romance on the way? (Mmm, mmm!) What are we waiting for? What he would have liked was to feel about a maiden as Ithilden obviously felt about Alfirin, and, he added to himself, as Eilian felt about Celuwen, a fact that made Eilian’s flirting doubly incomprehensible. Now, that's our darling hero -- such a tender heart. I can't imagine anyone good enough for him. But perhaps you can, hmm? Can't wait for Chapter Two! Happy typing always!

Author's reply

LOL. You're such a romantic, Esamen. I tend to think that Legolas was single at the time of the Ring War. He doesn't act like a guy who has someone waiting for him at home who might object to moving to Ithilien and having a dwarf in the guest room. But I find it hard to think of him being lonely all those years. Still, given the way elves are, if there's a serious romance and he's still single later, then did the romance end tragically? I don't like that either!

meckinock · 10 January 2005 · Chapter 1: Family Time

I guess I don't have to ask how your vacation was, Daw! Hope you took the laptop out in the sun, at least. I liked the nice, non-confrontional family dinner. Very soothing. But wow. I feel like I'm in a time warp. Seems like Ithilden just got married a week ago, and now he's got a teenager. It is sweet to see him and Alfirin as settled married folks, though, now that we've had a peek at their courtship and betrothal. Eilian's supposed to be an old married guy, too, if I recall. I had almost forgotten the besotted scoundrel I loved so much. Let Celuwen marry someone whose idea of excitement was to paint the cottage door a different color - he doesn't care! LOL - have another drink, Eilian! At least Legolas is suitably exasperated with him. The boy shows good sense already. Good to see you back with a new story.

Author's reply

You can't see the laptop screen very well in the sun. But I did drive an ATV in Cozumel. I'll post a picture when I get home this weekend. It's frightening--middle-aged people in Germanic-looking combat helmets. Jumping around in time is kind of fun with these characters, but I was just thinking today that maybe I need to write some more about the time after the Battle of Five Armies. When I write there, readers are less sure about what's coming (and so am I!).

elliska · 10 January 2005 · Chapter 1: Family Time

Oh I'm so happy to see this up. I really enjoyed the interactions in this. “I have done most of it,” Sinnarn said defensively. “My tutor does not seem to notice that I have other things to do too.” “You have enough time to roam the forest with your friends, so I believe you have enough time to complete your lessons. You need to recognize your responsibilities, Sinnarn. You cannot always do just what you like.” LOL. Yes, this is a conversation I have heard from students and had with my 40 year old husband (who is now a college student). I know it well and it cracked me up to see elves having it. Alfirin's response was excellent. Loved it. And the back and forth comparison of Legolas with Eilian and Sinnarn and other elves Legolas' age (ex. Galelas) was great. It bothers him to be in such an in between age yet he realizes he would not want to live like mortals. I think we all remember this age very well. Yuck! All of those reflections/instrospections/interactions were great. A lot of characterization of Legolas in this one chapter. I like it. It hit the nail on the head, I think. Especially: Legolas knew that he himself was always careful around people who were not either part of his extended family or long time friends. He was only too aware that he always represented his father, even when he was simply sitting on a river bank listening to music. I like that. Of course, the trouble on the border doesn't bode well. But I'm just so happy to see this up tonight. Thanks for another story!

Author's reply

I too have heard those things from students, I'm afraid. It's like they all speak from the same script. I'm trying to play around with the idea of adulthood for elves in this story. I've always had a hard time understanding what it must be like to have siblings so many years apart and older generations that are still around. Not to mention living in "houses." So how do you know if you're an adult? Is that the same thing as being fully grown? Is it the same thing as being of age? I don't know. I'm speculating a little. I'm also trying to slow down and spend just a little more time on introspection and emotional exchange. I'm impatient sometimes and cut it off. So anyway, that's what I'm working on!

LOTRFaith · 10 January 2005 · Chapter 1: Family Time

Horray a new story! ;) Hmm.. I often find myself in the same situation as Legolas. I am 19 but too often my parents seem to think I just turned 10. lol.. But what I think it worse is that they treat my younger sister (who just turned 18) like she is more mature and responsible than I. Which could very well be true, but to have them allow her a lot more freedom than I is quite frustrating to say the least. lol.. I am finding that I like the married Eilian a bit more than the single Eilian. :-D I love Legolas' mind set about maidens, although I believe he did stray from the path a little;-) That is exactly my mindset as well... I have never dated and don't want to at all... I want a husband I can flirt with that can end up well (cough) snuggling in bed, not just flirt with a cute guy and not be able to do anything.. But that's just my POV :-D Excellent chapter and I can't wait for more~!

Author's reply

I think elves might think about adulthood differently and that's one of the things I'm trying to speculate on in this story. In our culture, we come of age and usually leave our parents household. We might do it gradually, staying at college part of the year for instance, or we might do it all at once. Separating from our parents and demonstrating our ability to stand on our own is part of what marks us as adults. And that all involves taking on adult responsibilities too -- supporting yourself or raising children, for instance. But Tolkien says that elves are organized in households. The family structure is the social structure. So how do you become an adult in that society? I think you would still try to separate from your parents, to be seen as your own person, but it must take a different form. Maybe making good decisions, for instance. I don't know. It's tricky. You and Legolas think alike about romance, which is nice to know, isn't it?