Ooo I loved this one. I love the Sindar / Noldor jabs--you know I just can't resist that stuff and I like the way you handle it. I like seeing both sides and neither being the only right argument. The is very realistic. And I like how you portray these elves as old and wise enough to recognize that reality, speak their mind and not fight about it. That seems very in character to me.
The discussion of Celeborn and Galadriel's place (or lack thereof) in Elwing's life was great. I liked hearing Celebrian recognizing her father's actions in the stories of her mother-in-law / sort-of-sister (since Celeborn was a father figure for Elwing). That was very nicely done. I really like picturing Celeborn as an ada of daughters. I bet he was great.
But I particularly liked the explanation of why Elwing was so young when she was married / became a mother. To be honest, that always confused me a little when I read the Silm. As sad as this is going to sound, it never occurred to me until I read this chapter of this fic that Elwing, being half-elven might grow faster than elves. Duh! Great exploration of that and Glasiel's opinions of it.
I also loved the discussion on Elwing's marriage at such an age / to such a person. I loved this: ‘He went to Balar,’ Glasiel said simply. ‘I do not know if you ever realised – but he wanted to consult with Tuor and go back with him to Nan-tathren to speak with Idril.’ She smiled. ‘Whatever you said to him had clearly made him decide in Eärendil’s favour, but he was not about to let the exiles of Gondolin feel that you were unprotected. You were Elu’s heir and his kin – and you would be treated as such.’ That sounds SOOO like Celeborn. Quiet. Behind the scenes. And don't mess with him and his or you will not live to regret it! And I loved Celebrian's reply about Celeborn's reaction to Elrond. Great!
And just so you know--I have a whole sheet of paper where I have written the family trees and who is cousins to what degree. Maddening but fascinating to me. :)
Great chapter. And I needed it this weekend. Thanks!
Author's reply
I'm glad you enjoyed it - and that it helped with your weekend.
Looking at the family tree, I couldn't see that Celeborn would have left Elwing completely to the care of those who escaped from Doriath. But, had he been her guardian, surely it would have been notable enough to mention him - so this is a way of dealing with it! And the Noldor/Sindar . . . edginess gives it a reason. Yes, Celeborn would be great as an ada of daughters - and protective, very protective.
Do you think that men growing up among elves would take longer to grow up mentally? There wouldn't be the same kind of pressure to be adult by 16 or so, because to elves 16 is barely starting-school age - so Elwing might have grown tall, but no-one would expect her to be mature. According to some of my pieces of paper, Tuor and Idril disappeared before Elwing and Earendil married - but I think Idril would have wanted to see them settled down first and do her best to see they had security. (Other sources put their disappearance later - so I felt justified.)
Elven ages make the degrees of cousinship really interesting - Celebrian is 4th generation, while Elrond is 6th (via Nimloth and Idril) and 5th (through Dior), but she wasn't born until ?mid-2nd-Age? And then, aren't first cousin marriages supposed to be proscribed? But the two generation degree of removal presumably made it OK. And there again, marriages within the royal houses would very quickly eliminate most eligible connections, because they're all related. Have you gone for working out the percentages of different kindreds in Elrond's family? That's quite fun!
daw the minstrel
· 20 February 2005
· Chapter 4: Cousins
Elven families are very confusing to me, so I'm going to pretend I understood the stuff about who was related to whom and let it go.
I do feel badly for Elwing. As you say, she and Earendil were so young to do everything they did, even by the standards of men. And Elwing lost her children, which is about the worst thing I can think of.
Author's reply
I read something recently where Boromir had a similar reaction to the hobbits trying to explain hobbit genealogy. I was trying to find it - but failed, so I can't say anything more about it!
Yes - and she left them in a state of terror vulnerable to probably the nastiest bunch of elves available. And she couldn't have known that Maglor would become defensive of them and take them under his wing. She must have been tormented by her choice for a long time, although I suppose she would have known the outcome by the end of the First Age. But even then, knowing her children were safe is not the same thing as bringing them up herself.
And, looking at the dates, Earendil only just about seemes to have been around long enough to impregnate her - I'm not surprised Glasiel is still a bit disapproving.
Bejai
· 15 February 2005
· Chapter 3: Leaving Gondolin
Sorry I didn't review earlier. Loving this story, Bodkin. I particularly love Elrond's sheer wisdom, his ability to put things in perspective for his father. Earendil is a hero, but I don't know if he has the advantage of his son's wisdom.
I do hope that we'll have some more from Elwing's POV. I know she was probably too young to remember Doriath, but I would love to hear about what SHE thought when she met Earendil ... maybe you'll just have to write another story: Elwing's Tale ;)
Looking forward to more.
Author's reply
Elrond has had a lot more to do with other people (of all races) than Earendil - who was only about 30 when he ended up heading off to Valinor - and he is hugely wise. I think, in some ways, Earendil and Elwing have been rather cut off and lonely over the millennia. It will do them both good to spend more time in the company of their son - and I hope he will draw them out of their isolation.
Piloting Vingilot and flying the dawn sky sounds very romantic until you think about it, but really it's not much of a reward for getting the Valar to come and chain Morgoth, not if it means you remain on your own for ever.
Elwing is currently sitting in among the roses talking to Celebrian. They haven't finished their conversation yet, but I'm sure Earendil will feature. And the pleasures of having twins.
SharonB
· 14 February 2005
· Chapter 3: Leaving Gondolin
Sigh, yes so many of their family they will have to wait until the end of Arda to see ... Luthein, Beren, Elros, Arwen, Aragorn. I'm not sure of the paths for Dior and Nimloth since they ruled an elven realm they might come out of Mandos to Valinor.
Eärendil and Elrond have much in common with their childhood and apparently their guilt over events in their childhood over which they had no control. I'm sure Elwing would rather reminise (?somethow that spelling does not look right) about Elrond and Elros and the times she had with them. She was fairly young when she fled Doraith wasn't she?
Author's reply
Dior is a difficulty - it doesn't seem to say, but Luthien is supposed to have been the only one of the Firstborn to pass beyond the Circles of the World, so Nimloth must have passed to the Halls of Mandos. So I've decided that Dior probably did too - and then the Valar can do the 'choice of the half-elven' retrospectively for him. And he chose to be of the Firstborn. And so did his sons. And since Tuor (messenger of Ulmo) was apparently the only mortal-born to make it to Valinor, I reckon that the Valar must have decided they made a mistake with Beren and Luthien that they didn't want to repeat.
I was watching a TV programme last night where, in passing, they said that children who lose their parents often feel guilty for what has happened, regardless of the fact that it was nothing they could help - and I reckon that both Earendil and Elrond are the types who would take to heart the events that happened. Elwing - probably not: I think she was too young to remember what happened in Doriath - only two or three.
I think she might enjoy a discussion with Celebrian on the merits of having twins. Perhaps she'll get to that soon!
elliska
· 14 February 2005
· Chapter 3: Leaving Gondolin
You know I love these stories where the characters reflect on how some canon event impacted their life. I especially like the First Age stuff because there is so little on it. So this is so perfect to me. And I love the way you mix in the little, peaceful natural images--the rabbit and kingfisher (especially loved the kingfisher one--they are one of my favorite birds and you have it right on). These images seem to be, in addition to just beautiful, an interesting contrast to their surroundings.
A couple of things touched me here--the lost toys in the tree hiding place (such a sad child's memory); Elrond saying he's familar with guilt (I just feel for Elrond so much); the very end where Eärendil says 'until tomorrow, my son' (how many times in the ages that he's been a father has he been able to say that).
Very well done. There is a lot of potential in these given the 'memories' direction you are going with them. Keep going in that direction. I love it.
Author's reply
Thank you - I started of thinking about Earendil's voyages, but got too involved in the background (which at least has bits you can look up!)
I think it could possibly the first time Earendil has been able to say that - at least to a son who would remember what he said. Poor Elrond has one of the most dysfunctional families in Middle Earth.
I like to contrast the peace of their current setting with the horror of their memories - and kingfishers and rabbits are good for that.
The First Age stuff is becoming rather exasperating - there are so many dead end trails (and occasional bits where I say 'I'm not having THAT! It was dumped for a reason!')
I've got Elwing and Celebrian interrupting now, I think!
daw the minstrel
· 14 February 2005
· Chapter 3: Leaving Gondolin
What a grim story for a father to tell a son, and it seems to be the son who offers comfort. The tragedy of the Noldor indeed.
Author's reply
On the other hand, that son is Elrond. And he is over 6000 years old. And his father is less than 30 years older than him.
Poor Earendil hasn't really had many people to tell his story to over the years - but that will change! He will have his great-grandsons in a few hundred years and then their children. Although he probably ought to avoid this particular story - I don't think it has much potential for bowdlerisation. You wouldn't be left with much.
At least Elwing won't to want to relive the Sack of Doriath. A formative time of her life - but she was too young to remember it.
elliska
· 12 February 2005
· Chapter 2: Elwing
Wow, Bodkin, that was awesome! Sorry I'm late in reviewing this. I was at training all week with no Internet access. I have been going through withdrawal and this was incredible to come back to. I LOVED how you handled interspersing Elrond's memories into his meeting with his mother. And I loved the memories themselves. They way you described that scene--Elwing having to make a choice to give up the Silmaril or her sons--and everyone's terror and the harsh cruelty of Maedhros. Really well done. And I love how you and Celebrian lightened the mood. I think I enjoyed the thought of grasshoppers and thistles as much as Elrond did. This was just incredibly well done and another example of why I would never miss reading one of your fics. Great job!
Author's reply
Thank you. Elrond insisted on doing it this way. And on putting in the italics. The contrast of sitting in peaceful Aman, yet mentally reliving violence and terror - and trying to come to terms with their outcome - must affect a lot of elves, I would think. I am wondering how Galadriel deals with it - it's been touched on in Letters from Home (which was my first or second story), but I think I know her better now.
And she must have been a holy terror as an elfling - can you picture her as the baby sister of four big brothers. She would have been driven to get them to accept her on her own terms and see her as more than a cute and comic little elleth. In fact, without those brothers, she probably wouldn't have turned into the Galadriel we all know and many seem to loathe. And Celeborn - well, how could he have coped so well with his beloved if he hadn't had plenty of practice in holding his own with an elleth who could take on Morgoth and win?
This story might get on to Earendil's voyages - if it can ever get past all the other things that happened along the way!
Karri
· 10 February 2005
· Chapter 2: Elwing
A very vivid, emotionally-intense chapter! Wonderful writing. :-)
Author's reply
Phew - glad you liked it. Thank you.
Earendil might get to his later adventures in a while, but Elrond wants to know about other things first. And then he might need to spend more time with Elwing, I'm not sure. That's the trouble with being a lore-master - you want to know everything!
paranoidangel
· 10 February 2005
· Chapter 2: Elwing
I was just thinking I'd quite like to read a reunion between Elrond and his parents, and there was yours, on the front page! I loved it as well, it was absolutely perfect. It seems right to me that Elrond wouldn't be immediately comfortable with his parents, or them with him. I liked Celebrian's attempts to diffuse the tension a little, and Elrond's memories of what happened at Sirion. And Elrond seeing his sons in Earendil.
Author's reply
How strange! I find that I'm becoming convinced that more and more of the reunions or incidents that only get a passing mention would have been incredibly difficult to live through. And poor Elrond! He did really get the rough side of a lot of the heroics of three ages. Of course, being an elf-by-choice, there were a lot of peaceful times in between - but I'll bet it's things like Sirion and Dagolad and Celebrian's wounding that stick out in his memory.
This started with thinking about Earendil's voyages - but I just can't get there - they insist on telling other stories first.
Thank you for reviewing. More soon-ish.
sqrt(-1)
· 9 February 2005
· Chapter 2: Elwing
What a hard thing, to see your mother again after so long and after being seperated from her in such a terrible way. And hard for Elwing too. I'm glad that Elrond and Elwing seemed to have come to some sort of understanding, as he did with Earendil in the last chapter. I like your Earendil and Elwing.
I also really liked Elrond and Celebrian's conversation about the past deedds of her parents - Galadriel with grasshoppers in her hair and Celeborn putting thistles in Luthien's bed are very funny thoughts. So what did the young Earendil and Elwing do?
Author's reply
Elwing was under 30 (approx) when Elros and Elrond were born - and some 6000 years have passed. Elrond had put up with a lot of tough blows in his life and I think he has learned to be pretty forgiving. Had she come back in his life when he was only a couple of hundred, I think he would have been a lot more resentful. I'm glad you like Earendil and Elwing - I think they need love. And Elrond will give them his care, although he will never be a son to them in the sense of growing up with their love and guidance. I think Maglor and Gil-Galad are his fathers in that way.
I imagine Galadriel being a very naughty and demanding little girl - in the way that the youngest children of large families often have to be very much more - insistent, shall we say, to get the attention they know they deserve. And yet, at the same time, she would have been indulged, and allowed to pick up all sorts of ideas about being as good as her brothers. How else could she have grown up into the only elleth to challenge the males on relatively equal terms?
And Luthien is cut of the same cloth. It's no wonder that Celeborn could cope with Galadriel - he had plenty of practice with battling with Luthien.
What did Earendil and Elwing do? Don't know - they haven't said. Although they spent a fair part of their early years attempting to escape from the destruction of their homes and families.
daw the minstrel
· 9 February 2005
· Chapter 2: Elwing
How heartbreaking for Elwing and Elrond both. Elwing really had a tragic life. She saw so much destruction and death. The scene the Elrond witnesses is also frightening. It must have been both bewildering as well as terrrifying. And I kind of share the sympathy you give Maglor.
Author's reply
The more you look at the early stuff - Doriath, Gondolin, all those First Age battles and so on, the more tragic it all is. And all squashed into such a short period of years. And Earendil and Elwing only appear to have been thirty-ish at the time the brothers Grim arrived in Sirion. They really are barely older than Elrond.
But then, in some ways, I feel that Earendil and Elwing didn't have the happiest of times after they reached Aman either. It sounds quite romantic for Earendil to sail the night sky and for Elwing to fly out to meet him in the morning - but EVERY night for over 2 million of them? When do they get time to do anything else? Or interact with their family (such as is in the Blessed Realm)? And the White Tower sounds as if it is miles from anywhere else.
I think it's Maglor's undecided fate that adds to my sympathy for him - at least the other sons of Feanor got to die and go to the Halls of Mandos, where, hopefully, they could come to terms with their actions - but Maglor is so isolated. And he seems the sort of person who might well be hard on himself.
Not much to do with Earendil's Tale, but Elrond couldn't spend endless hours talking to his adar without seeing Elwing - and that was bound to be traumatic.
Siorah
· 7 February 2005
· Chapter 1: Meeting
Wow! Terrific Story. Pleas continue it.
Siorah
Author's reply
Thank you! I'm already most of the way through the next bit - so there will be more. I hope you continue to enjoy it.
Bejai
· 7 February 2005
· Chapter 1: Meeting
Oh, nice Bodkin! I sure do love your stories, and I'm a sucker for Valinor reunion stories. What a wonderful meeting! Appropriately tense, with a kind of hope and despair on both sides. I hope they get a chance to tell one another their stories, and learn to know each other better. *pokes you, wanting more*
Author's reply
Thank you. If you like Valinor reunion, the next bit might be to your taste, too. It's just more or less written itself - on the way to stories of Earendil's adventures.
elliska
· 6 February 2005
· Chapter 1: Meeting
I'm late in reading this. Sorry, I didn't see the email notification.
Wow, Bodkin. There is so much in this. Elrond behaves exactly as I would expect him to. He has seen too much and lived too long to hold grudges and I can't see that. But the little touches like, "He felt a wrench when he realised that, after all this time, he still cared more for Maglor than for the adar before him.." That is one strong statement and it would surely be true. And: It seemed – odd, to say the least, to see his sons so plainly in the adar he knew by name only. How sad, that struck me. And the realization that Eärendil has no hope of knowing Elros. That is truly sad.
I liked the battle description. To me it seemed to underline how separate they were since that is what Elrond remembers seeing. But at least he had that.
In that part, I particularly like the line:‘They never mention in the tales, do they, that heroism is in facing peril and death despite your fears. So true, as I imagine Elrond knows all too well.
But this:If your adar cannot be with you,’ Eärendil said ironically, ‘at least you can boast of his peculiarities. Consorting with the Valar, fighting dragons in a flying ship, sailing the sky as a star. Not to mention a naneth who can put on feathers and fly.’
‘We are a very special family,’ Elrond grinned. ‘Disregard us at your peril.’
is perfect. Great lines!
I definitely would like to see more of this. What challenge it would be. I hope you take it on.
Author's reply
Elrond has had a rough life in many ways - but I think Earendil and Elwing have had a tough time as well. I'm not sure that spending your time sailing the night sky, or sitting waiting in a tower and flying out to meet him each morning is much of a way to spend two ages. I hope they are not as isolated as they sound.
I think children care most deeply for those who care for them when they're small - and Elrond scarcely knew Earendil and then Elwing was torn away from them in a very traumatic way - and Maglor and Gil-Galad seem to have shared the parenting of Elros and Elrond.
I'm glad you would like to see some more, because they pinned me down and made me write the next bit - which will be along soon.
Jay of Lasgalen
· 6 February 2005
· Chapter 1: Meeting
When I mentioned in another review how odd it must be to have such legendary figures in your family tree, I hadn't thought of actually being reunited with them!
What an unusual, awkward meeting that must have been. I do feel that Earendil and Elwing abandoned their young sons, but I suppose in the end they really didn't have a choice. Poor Earendil, and poor Elrond.
Earendil, though, still has the pleasure of meeting his grandsons to come, and the slightly more dubious pleasure of eventually seeing his great-granddaughters (and taking them sailing!)
Jay
Author's reply
So many of them really had no real choice - I suppose the inevitability of sorrow and loss in the pursuit of the greater good is one of the things that makes the Elves so darn noble.
I suppose it is a typical mother/father divide, but I can see Earendil sailing off in search of salvation, but I find it much harder to see why Elwing didn't just chuck the Silmaril in the sea and say 'you want it that bad, you go and swim for it. Now give me my sons.' Although, of course, that wouldn't have worked with the Plot.
But then I don't see being stuck in a White Tower, or spending every night for two ages sailing your ship - on your own - across the night sky, with that *** Silmaril stuck on your head as being much of a reward for risking your life and your children's happiness and asking the Valar to come to the aid of Middle Earth. I feel Elrond would be aware of a terrible loneliness and grief in Earendil and Elwing and have a need to take them into his care - a bit of Half-Elven solidarity.
Earendil has a while to wait before meeting E2 and still longer before the elflings arrive - I see this reunion as taking place before E2 Thranduil, Glorfindel and Celeborn sailed.
Radbooks
· 6 February 2005
· Chapter 1: Meeting
I enjoyed this first chapter and I would like to read more about how they get to know each other. They have a lot to catch up on and share with each.
Author's reply
Oh good. Thank you for your encouragement. Earendil and Elrond need to learn about each other. And, for a lore master, there cannot be much more tempting than to learn about the adventures of the Mariner from his own mouth! By the time Earendil has told him all about the last couple of ages, they will have spent enough time together to be friends and fellow half-elves, if not a loving father/son.
Karri
· 6 February 2005
· Chapter 1: Meeting
Oh, excellent. I am certain Earendil has marvelous tales to tell his son! :-) The tense meeting of father and son was nicely done.
Author's reply
Thank you. I certainly hope he has!
It must have been a difficult moment - it's a shame that Elwing chickened out of this first meeting, but perhaps Earendil thought it would be better to test the waters first.
I think there will be more stories to come. Earendil is looking for an audience for some of those episodes that make Elwing sigh, roll her eyes and say, 'You've only told me that one about a thousand times!'
daw the minstrel
· 6 February 2005
· Chapter 1: Meeting
The notion that Elrond cares more for Maglor than Earendil just tore my heart out, but I can see it happening. Children love those who care for them, and from little Elrond's and Elros's pov, their parents abandoned them. It's a decision that I find hard to accept and I wasn't their child.
Elrond is quite generous here to forgive like this.
Author's reply
I think that Elrond looks on Gil-Galad more as his father, but Maglor is definitely up there. After all, he spent longer looking after Elros and Elrond than Earendil ever did. Maybe Elwing has a bigger place in his memory - but her care of them must have been shadowed by her loss and the trauma of the Kinslaying.
I find I can't admire the Silmarils - they seem far too tainted with obsession and greed. And poor Earendil got stuck with one!
Elrond is generous - and wise. After 6000 years or so, he has probably had time to come to terms with his parents's decision.
SharonB
· 6 February 2005
· Chapter 1: Meeting
Oh good, "in progress" means there is more to come in this story. I can imagine that both Elrond and Earendil would feel awkward at first. It has been so long and how much, really how little, Elrond rememebrs of him probably did produce a large gulf between them. And to know how to act when intellectually you know what had to be done was done but emotionally you hate such things having happened is such a burden. Elrond was very gracious in opening that door of understanding. I'm sure his having been reunited with Celebrian helped strengthen him to this task. Sigh, next you have to bring Elwing back to meet her lost family. ;-)
Author's reply
I have a feeling that Elrond would end up feeling that Earendil needed his care - I think Earendil and Elwing are very lonely and isolated. The philosophy of the Last Homely House would persuade Elrond to overcome two ages of division. And, in a way, Elrond and Elros received parental care - first from Maglor and then Gil-Galad, whereas Earendil and Elwind have spent all the intervening years grieving for the loss of their sons with no-one to console them.
There should be more to come - Elrond, the lore master, really wants to know the stories that Earendil can tell him. By the time they have all talked themselves out, they should all be much better acquainted. And, if not parent/child, they should become friends and fellow half-elves.
sqrt(-1)
· 6 February 2005
· Chapter 1: Meeting
Yay! Another story by Bodkin! I'm a bad reader and don't often review, but I really like your version of the elves in the Blessed Realm. I'll look forward to any updates on this story as I do to updates on your others.
Author's reply
Thank you - I'm flattered. I think there will be more - some ideas are floating around rather. Earendil has lots of stories to tell about his voyages across and above the world. And Elrond needs to spend some time with his mother!
Lackwit
· 6 February 2005
· Chapter 1: Meeting
Yes, Bodkin, more, please :) Will you be writing about Elwing as well?
Very nice interpretation of a meeting I have always wondered about. One can hope that they can rebuild their relationship, but really Eärendil is almost a complete stranger to his son, isn't he? The years spent together were nothing compared to the number spent apart. How very sad.
Author's reply
I think Elwing will have to appear. Maybe not the twins yet - I think this is before they sailed.
I think Elrond is wise enough to be able to build a relationship of sorts - but it won't be parent/child. Elrond is far too old to need a nana and ada. He might be able to see them as his parents - but they're only about 25 years older than he is. Which, when you are around 6000, is really too small a difference to notice.
I hope they can grow to care for each other - Earendil and Elwing seem very lonely. Maybe Elrond will feel more of a need to 'parent' them and give them a family.
Ellie
· 6 February 2005
· Chapter 1: Meeting
I love teh ending of this with the promise of "bedtime stories". You have done a beautiful job of capturing the grief and self doubt of Earendil and the odd feelings of Elrond in this matter too. Well done!
Author's reply
Thank you. It must be hard to elves to be reunited with long lost kin - and the whole Earendil/Elwing - Elrond/Elros situation is so packed with grief and the potential for eternal resentment. But that wouldn't be very Elrond-like, really, since he is so understanding.
I think there will be more.