Reviews (19)

Anonymous · 10 November 2013 · Chapter 1

What a delightful read! Well-written and I love how you weave the gentle,subtle sadness behind her justification of having to flee...It is nice to see this side of her character after reading 'Oak and Willow'...

whitewave · 17 December 2008 · Chapter 1

Another addicting and different "portrait" of Melian. My favorite line was the last one--it works so well to explain why she left Doriath after Thingol died. You also did a good job in describing the tempestuous Thingol and I especially enjoyed it when you compared him to Osse. I'm enjoying reading your work very much and I have Marta to thank for leading me to this treasure trove.

Author's reply

Thanks Whitewave! And to Marta too! I seem to be constantly inspired to see if I can do a different take on things. I suppose my Elu Thingol fangirlism is coming through :)

whitewave · 17 December 2008 · Chapter 1

Kalima · 21 March 2005 · Chapter 1

Ah, so besutiful. From the sketches of the Silmarillion come some lovely stories, and the fleshing of the skeletons in your hands are my favorites. (If that is not repulsive a way of putting it.) NOW she makes sense to me. I'll never see her any other way. Thank you!

Author's reply

LOL! I suppose it's a bit disconcerting when you think about it, but I know what you mean :) Thank you! I'm so glad you think she makes sense now. I feel a little more sympathetic towards her now too :) Thanks!

Sulriel · 19 March 2005 · Chapter 1

Beautifully done!

Author's reply

Thanks :)

adn_heming · 19 March 2005 · Chapter 1

Wow. I know you don't like Melian, Marnie, but you really made me feel for her here. This is a beautiful vignette, and wonderful insight into Melian. (Now, if only the people who don't *like* Thingol could do the same for him.) (post the others from yuor journal! You know you want to! *g*) And yes, I must echo the question everyone's asking too. What MIGHT Elwe have said to her the minute he got out of Mandos? 8} Just becuase he might tell his kin to back off on her, doesn't necessarily mean HE will.

Author's reply

*g* Thanks! Actually I just don't like super-perfect, serene, know-it-all Melian. I have this resistance to goddess-types, I suppose, or maybe just stereotypes. I quite like this powerful but unselfconfident, wise but feckless Melian - she has the flaws I need to be able to sympathise with her :) I might post the Eol one :) As to what Elu said to her... I can't imagine it would be pretty, but then he would have felt sorry for being so mean afterwards, and maybe even said to himself that it was all his fault in the first place. All would be well in the end, I think :)

Dot · 19 March 2005 · Chapter 1

Now this is interesting! I’ve always felt a little uneasy about Melian. In many ways she comes across as wise, otherworldly, untouchable somehow. But then, enchanting Thingol is a nice story, but what about keeping him from his people for so long? They loved him too. They stayed behind for him. I suppose that’s probably too simplistic a view, though! Anyway, you’ve done a tremendous job here. As always, you’ve written an incredibly beautiful piece, made the world about which you write come alive for us and allowed us to see this character in a completely new way. You actually had me feel real sympathy towards her! You’ve really captured the sense of someone young for her kind caught completely unawares by a love so deep that it changed her world. I just loved her descriptions of Thingol – how could anyone not fall in love with him?! There’s such a wonderful sense of his strength, his dignity, and his love. I was particularly touched by the line “In all things he was magnificent, even his mistakes." I thought that was a marvellous summation of his character. Of course he made mistakes and he paid for them dearly but boy, they were the stuff of legends! You made me stop and think for a moment when I came to the end. I always figured that apart from grief, she fled Doriath because she never really belonged there. But I never imagined the confusion she might have felt, the helplessness and simply not knowing what to do. People may think that it was she who had kept them safe but as long as he was there, she was safe. Without him, she was nothing. And that certainly makes me see that even the Maiar are not the all-powerful, indestructible and perfect beings that I think we sometimes see them as. I thought it was interesting that she doesn’t show much remorse, though. She just begs us to understand and is afraid that he might not. And I suppose I do understand a little better now. What their reunion will be like is something I can’t even begin to imagine. There’s no doubt that she loves him, and she was always there for him in life, but if he was the kind of ruler that he appeared to be, abandoning his people is one of the worst things she could have done to him. Sometimes I wonder how Valinor could possibly be the peaceful, happy place it’s supposed to be ;-) I found this really thought-provoking and as wonderfully, insightfully written as all your work. Bravo, Marnie! :-)

Author's reply

I’ve always felt a little uneasy about Melian. In many ways she comes across as wise, otherworldly, untouchable somehow. But then, enchanting Thingol is a nice story, but what about keeping him from his people for so long? They loved him too. Yes, in a way it's such a faerie story - the 'man steps into elfland and when he gets back, centuries have passed' thing - that you tend to forget that this is Melian doing *exactly* the same thing as she does at the end; pursuing her love for Elu at the expense of his people. It should have been obvious then that she didn't care about the rest of them, only him. you’ve written an incredibly beautiful piece, made the world about which you write come alive for us and allowed us to see this character in a completely new way. Thank you! I just couldn't get my head around the traditional interpretation of Melian - the perfect, serene, wise and all knowing goddess type. It didn't seem to work with the way she behaves - in fact she does behave much more like a folklore 'faerie-wife' than a goddess; someone who is from a different species and doesn't really understand the mores of the people into whose culture she's married. I'm glad it helped make you feel a bit more sympathetic to her - it did with me too :) Glad you liked my Thingol too :) He's my second favourite elf in Tolkien canon, so I'm always glad to sing his praises. He doesn't get enough respect, IMO. if he was the kind of ruler that he appeared to be, abandoning his people is one of the worst things she could have done to him. Sometimes I wonder how Valinor could possibly be the peaceful, happy place it’s supposed to be ;-) Lots and lots of forgiveness is required, I feel. Otherwise it would soon turn into a war zone, with all the 'you killed my brother!' 'Well, you stole my ship/Silmaril' etc going on :) Anyway, thanks for a fascinating review! Marnie :-)

Eruanneth_Luin · 19 March 2005 · Chapter 1

Ah, Marnie, thank you for this poignant tale of the fragile strength of Melian and her love for Elu Thingol. The romantic encounter, the tragic separation; you weave it together with your delicate touch to bring forth the mystery of this unique couple. Her surprise and delight at first seeing one of the Children and her desire to learn more of the mind of Ilúvatar through him was superb. That she saw more in Elu than merely a ‘pretty Elf’ is obvious. Her humbleness in admitting that it was Elu that the people followed and her ultimate despair and helplessness at his loss would certainly explain her ‘desertion’ of Doriath. What WILL Elu say to her when he re-housed? Is there a possible next chapter? Please say yes

Author's reply

Thanks for the review, Eruanneth! Yes, I think people miss the fact that the Maiar and the Children of Iluvatar are actually on an equal footing in the sense that both were directly created by God. In that sense Elu is as much of a wonder and marvel to her as she is to him. Why didn't Iluvatar create Elves and Men with awesome power like the Ainur? Could it be because He gave them something different but equally valuable, in the same way that Elves and Men have different but equally valuable fates? I'm glad that came across :) People do seem to be so mystified as to what she saw in him, and I just wanted to balance the score a little. No next chapter, I'm afraid. But if this fits in with SoOT we can at least be sure that he forgave her in the end :)

L*M · 18 March 2005 · Chapter 1

I like Melian throughout the Silmarillion, right up until she runs away. There's not much that can redeem that. Doriath's position was bad, for many more reasons than Thingol's death, and her reaction was to take care of the stupid Silmaril and then hightail it out of there. Running away like Melian did always smacks of cowardice, and in her case it was hugely irresponsible, a complete failure to fulfill her duty. After reading your story, I still think Melain's actions were cowardly, selfish and unfaithful. But I can understand and sympathize with her. Thingol, however, was a different case. I didn't much like him in the Silmarillion - I was solidly on Beren's side, and on the side of my own race - but your story gives me a much different picture of him. Exulting in his radiance, shivering in the blast of his grief, patient, capable, a king, the heart of his people - and gentle! That is one trait I, reading the Silmarillion, would not have attributed to him. I like your Thingol immensely. All the same, I will have trouble thinking all of his mistakes "magnificent". His little rant to the Dwarves was stupid. Memo to Thingol: You may be beautiful, magnificent, one of the Firstborn of Eru, millenium old, but you are NOT immune to sharp, pointy things, even if the wielders are ugly and uncouth. And, um, I have a question pertaining to that part about "the Children". Did Melian have those feelings of protectiveness, and the desire to teach and learn, for all the Children? How do you think Thingol's contempt for the Second Children played with her, did she agree, argue, let it slide? Your story is beautifully written and gives a wonderful perspective. Thank you.

Author's reply

Thanks for the review L*M :) I'm sort of your opposite - I don't like Melian even from her first appearance, but I do like Thingol. I think Melian's feckless disregard for anything but her own love for Elu is apparent in her first action - of enchanting him and making him disappear, so that those of his people who really cared about him missed the boat to Valinor and wandered around in grief and berevement for centuries. I suppose it should have been clear from that moment that she didn't care about anything but him, but we still expect her to do something to protect the people she's ruled for millenia; we expect her to have at least *learned* some responsibility. But no, she lets them down again. I find it hard to have even minimal sympathy for her - so this is a way for me to understand her which allows me not to be quite so harsh. I think if you try to see Thingol *not* from Beren's POV, but from the pov of his own people, he is a much more sympathetic character. The story of Beren and Luthien sets him up essentially as an antagonist in Beren's story - so you're not going to get a balanced picture of him there. But I think if you take the big picture he comes out as someone very attractive, though in a Brian Blessed, larger-than-life sort of way. For a start, his whole nation gave up Valinor because they cared more about him - that has to tell you something. As far as the rant to the dwarves go, I agree it was stupid, but it showed a blatant disregard for his own safety that is rather magnificent, in a Viking warrior sort of way. No one can say that Thingol is a coward who runs away from a confrontation. No one can say that he cares or even thinks about his own personal safety when he reacts to things. There are characters in Viking sagas who react just like this, and would consider it contemptable weakness and cowardice to pay attention to miserable details like whether your enemy is armed and you're not. It's the same kind of stupidity as Feanor riding into the Balrogs, or Fingolfin challenging Morgoth - there are some things you don't put up with, even if it means you're going to die as a result. I suppose it's a matter of interpretation :) As far as gentle goes, I suppose I could have used 'forgiving' or 'softhearted' instead. When he sees Beren beaten and in pain he's moved by pity, he relents. The same thing goes with Haleth and her people, he doesn't want them there, but he allows himself to be argued round, and once he's accepted them there, he takes responsibility for them and sends an army to aid them when they're attacked. He's not implacable and merciless the way Feanor and Maedhros are - he might have a tendancy to mouth off, but he has a good heart. And as far as Men goes, I'm not sure that I agree with you that he had contempt for them. We know that he was 'troubled in dreams' about Men long before they arrived - he had some kind of foresight which caused him to ban them from his lands. We don't know what it involved, but I think it's a fair bet to assume it was something to do with the fact that Men (or a Man, at least) would cause the death of his daughter and (indirectly) the downfall of his kingdom. That, I think, is enough to excuse some antagonism on his part. And Melian - with her foresight - must have been quite in agreement that they should keep them out, if possible, except that she must also have known that it wasn't really possible. Terrible position to be in! Is there any wonder that when it came to it they both reacted quite badly - Thingol overreacted, and Melian underreacted. Anyway, sorry about the essay! Thanks for the review!

Ms. Whatsit · 18 March 2005 · Chapter 1

This is a wonderful short story. It's rather a nice change from all the stories I've read that show Melian as perfect and omnipotent. Of course she's neither. She's rather like Galadriel, only less queenly. Both are married to leaders who are more truly connected to the land and the people than their wives are. This pattern--an earthy, involved king and a holy, remote queen--repeats itself a lot in LotR: Aragorn and Arwen, for instance. And even Eomer and Lothiriel, who's Numenorean and therefore closer to the Elves than Eomer. And your writing is so beautiful. You're amazing when it comes to describing the glittering, magical world Tolkien envisioned.

Author's reply

It's rather a nice change from all the stories I've read that show Melian as perfect and omnipotent. Thanks! It was all those stories which finally drove me up the wall enough to write this one, because it doesn't make sense that Melian should be perfect - if she was perfect she wouldn't have left her people to be massacred. But then the Valar themselves aren't perfect and make mistakes. It bugs me, I suppose, that she gets depicted as perfect when she's so feckless. Fascinating insight about the pattern of kings and queens! You're right. It's obvious with Elu/Melian and Celeborn/Galadriel, but I hadn't thought how it extended to the others. That's quite a role-reversal from the typical masculine=spiritual feminine=material dichotomy isn't it? Good for Tolkien! And thank you :)

Jillian · 18 March 2005 · Chapter 1

A very interesting tale. Of course Melian couldn't rule elves, she understood and loved one, but that's very different from being able to rule a land full of them. Had Beren and Luthien been present in Doriath at the time of Thingol's death, they might have convinced her to stay, and they would rule with Melian holding the girdle in place as always. I did wonder why she fled and didn't stay to protect her husband's people but again you have explained that so well, she was paralyzed with grief, the kind of grief Maia were not made to deal with. So, she fled, to the only place she believed she could find comfort in, Valinor. Really enjoyed this, thanks for posting the link.

Author's reply

Had Beren and Luthien been present in Doriath at the time of Thingol's death, they might have convinced her to stay, and they would rule with Melian holding the girdle in place as always. Ooh, now that's an interesting idea for an AU, particularly if she managed to bring herself through Luthien's death and stay for Dior's sake. But then Beren and Luthien don't exactly fill me with confidence as rulers of a realm. Great heroes, yes, responsible King and Queen? Not really. Fascinating idea, thanks!

Redheredh · 18 March 2005 · Chapter 1

You know, there is a bonus to arriving habitually late to an update. Others always say in their reviews what I would like to say as well - and so much better! There is little left to say except... ... for me, along with all this wonderful writing, the outstanding passage in this outstanding vignette was Melian's realization of Elu as a Child of Iluvatar. "Yearning to learn from the corners of our Maker's thoughts that we had never touched." Melian is no different from Ulmo and Osse, who also treasured Elu's kind more than other Ainur. But, you help us to see her story as a smaller, personal and intimately understandable, rendition of this fascination. And now here follows Mankind. Also weaker and more frail, stepping beyond into precints unknowable except to the One. Luthien's destiny is to love in much the same fashion as her mother. Fortunately, she was born a princess. This story was lovely and sympathetic to *all* who dare to love without reserve. Sadly, some pay a price. You are a master writer of passion in all its colors and forms.

Author's reply

Hello! I keep meaning to write to you and not getting round to it. Sorry! Glad you liked this :) Yes, I think the tendency is for people to go 'she's a *Maia* wow! How cool is that!' Yet from the POV of the Maiar 'he's a Child of Iluvatar, wow! How cool is that!' is probably an equally valid response - they're both equally expressions of the mind of God. I suppose Mankind is too, but I've never been that interested in mankind :) I'm more like Melian in that; I love the lure of the Other. But did Luthien love in the same fashion as her mother, or as her father? I wonder if Elu was so set against Luthien marrying out of her species because he'd already begun to see that it might not be that good a thing? Thank you! I'm glad you liked it. I've been trying to break out of my writer's block by doing some short things featuring different characters. It seems to be working so far.

LOTR lover · 18 March 2005 · Chapter 1

I was always disappointed in Melian for abandoning Doriath after Elu was killed, but this story definitely makes me understand her a bit better. And her feelings of guilt have tortured her for all these years! What *will* Elu say when he leaves Mandos? What do the elves of Doriath who are already reembodied have to say?

Author's reply

I've always found Melian very unsatisfactory as a character - I mean, she's so powerful and wise, yet she seems so ineffectual. So I reckoned I must be missing something somewhere. This was my attempt to take a different look at her which might actually work. As to what Elu will say, I guess he'll probably start out by shouting and saying horrible things, then he'll go away, calm down, come back and say 'sorry, love, I shouldn't have got myself killed,' and all will be well :) Thanks for the review!

Arquen · 18 March 2005 · Chapter 1

Wow, this is breathaking! I am such a fan of your work. This is the first fanfiction story I've had the chance to read in months, and I'm so glad I did. Thank you for writing this. :) Arquen

Author's reply

*g* Thank *you* :) I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Lackwit · 18 March 2005 · Chapter 1

Marnie, A lovely interpretation of why Melian so readily abandoned the Elves of Doriath to a horrible fate after so many years as their queen. Definitely makes her a more sympathetic, and pathetic, creature.

Author's reply

Thanks, Lackwit :) It was the only way I could get my head around why she left them in their hour of need. It does make her a bit weaker, but at least this way it seems to make a bit of sense. Glad you thought so too! Thanks.

Bejai · 18 March 2005 · Chapter 1

Oh, wow Marnie! What a treat! And unexpected. I've never quite been able to get my mind around Melian. She has this massive power, but can't get through to Elu on some important subjects, and just leaves when he dies. This certainly helps me understand. Power and leadership don't necessarily go hand in hand. Hmm. Must think on it more. Loved your description of Elu Thingol. "How odd, I thought, that so fragile a being should have so high an opinion of himself." And this: "he was not wrong to think we made the world for his sake." I just swoon at the breathtaking ideas that fall from your pen, wrapped in such glorious prose. And this: "Will he forgive me for loving him, now that he knows I was never meant to be a Queen?" I've always been a bit angry at Melian. And now I'm still angry at her, but feel for her as well. Thanks for this, Marnie. I really enjoyed it.

Author's reply

Well, you know my resistance to the sort of Fairy Godmother archetypes that both Galadriel and Melian sometimes get written as :) People seem to think 'oh, Melian is powerful and wise, therefore she will have a powerful, wise personality', and then they create a character where it doesn't make sense that she does what she does. I've never been able to understand her - I mean, what's wise about putting an enchantment on Elu so that his people think he's disappeared and everyone misses the boat? What's wise about skipping out on them just when they need her most? So I reckoned we must be missing something, and it occurred to me that she might be powerful, but she's still always had someone to tell her what to do and decide things for her. She might not *think of herself* as powerful - and that makes a difference. It also has the advantage of making her a very different character indeed from Galadriel. I almost begin to think she's interesting, infact :) Though still feckless. I'm really glad you approve - it was a bit of a departure!

Bodkin · 18 March 2005 · Chapter 1

I love picturing Melian as dumbstruck - and she's right really. She's an oily rag in goddess terms - and I can't really picture Manwe handing out much training-in-nation-leading to minor Maiar. And it's all relative. Singing nightingales into existence is probably as easy to her as making a cup of tea. Easier probably - she doesn't have to boil the water. Being a queen consort has never really packed much of a punch in political terms - so she was fine as long as she had Elu to understand his people. And then - bam, she's left - and half of those around her are doubtless demanding decisive action. The thought of Sonia Gandhi passes through my brain. An foreigner married to the ruling house who is then supposed to take charge of a vast and complex nation. And then she spends however many ages feeling guilty for reacting in panic to a situation she could never have imagined.

Author's reply

it's all relative That's the thing that finally let me get to grips with Melian as a character. I mean she's set up as this amazingly wise Queen and demi-goddess, but she selfishly hides Elu away under an enchantment for centuries, making his people miss the boat, then she fails to intervene with him over the Beren thing, and she runs away as soon as he's gone. It didn't seem to work. But when you remember that in Valinor she was surrounded by Valar and created to be a servant it somehow seems a bit more understandable. She was OK while someone else was in charge. And after all, even the Valar themselves make mistakes - no one's perfect. Love the Sonia Gandhi comparison, that's just right. I still find it reprehensible, but at least this way round it's understandable :) Thanks for the review!

Mirien · 18 March 2005 · Chapter 1

Ah, you know how I feel about Melian, but I almost felt sorry for her here. Your writing staggers me, always has. Elu is beautiful in this, all we both see and more, and it is easy to see how Melian, Maia or no, was as enchanted by him as he was by her. This was a treat, where I had not expected to find one, and I have an answer for her question at the end, but she'll just have to find out for herself! Mirien

Author's reply

Thanks for the review! Yes, when I can get away from thinking of her as perfect she becomes much more sympathetic. And we get so used to thinking that elves and Men are ordinary and the Maia are awesome, but to the Maia the Eruhini are every bit as awesome as they are. They had no part in making them, so they're altogether strange and wonderful to them. I don't think that gets emphasised enough under everyone's obsession with who's more powerful than whom. Gah, now you've got me on tenterhooks! I want to find out what the answer is too :) Are we going to have that scene - in flashback or something? That would be ace.

French Pony · 18 March 2005 · Chapter 1

Interesting. What to the Elves seems to be unfathomable wisdom, to a Maia is just ordinary wiftiness. Makes you wonder if Elu ever quite realized this about his wife. It sounds like there will be a serious re-adjustment of perspective in post-Mandos Valinor. Something about the phrasing of the beginning made me think that Elu was about to marry one of the ice-skating fairies from the "Nutcracker" segment of Fantasia. Which is kind of a charming image. It's easy to see how something like that could enchant an Elf for bazillions of years. (Though personally, I'd prefer one of the thistles that danced the Trepak, but that's just me.)

Author's reply

Wiftiness? What's wiftiness, precious :) But yes, I was trying to understand Melian who with all her power seems surprisingly ineffectual, and it occurred to me that she's just not a person who thinks of herself as being in charge of anything. LOL about the Fantasia thing. You're right, that's uncomfortably close. Well, at least I can claim that actually Fantasia was a debased memory of the real thing, in the same way that Rapunzel was a folk memory of Luthien's escape from the Hirilorn. Thanks for the review!