daw the minstrel
· 24 August 2005
· Chapter 5: Meeting
A big moment in the history of ME. Two big moments really -- Aragorn learns who he is, and he meets and falls in love with Arwen. And destiny is set in motion.
Author's reply
I can see a 20 year old falling hopelessly in love - but a 2700ish year old would, I'm sure, be a little more doubtful. But then there's Destiny.
This is all very romantic on the page. But I wouldn't want to live it! (And I suppose my age shows - I'm with Elrond and Gilraen in having my doubts about True Love. Good thing it worked out in the end. Holiday romance, huge age gap, differences in culture - it didn't promise well.)
Amy
· 24 August 2005
· Chapter 5: Meeting
Who can resist a strong-willed elleth with beautiful manners? No one, apparently. She learned from the best, didn't she?
Lovely staging of The Meeting, with Arwen's heart not completely clear, but Aragorn's held by her look, her word, her laugh. The background that you've given gives The Meeting real force: very well done!
Gilraen is lovingly drawn as well. So nice to see her included and not characterized as clinically depressed!
Aragorn's the right mix of young/old. I can see Arwen being drawn to him but also needing to wait for him to grow into his promise.
Author's reply
And Aragorn is probably not the first of Isildur's heirs to be stunned by her. She is unlikely, I think, to fall besottedly for a kid on first sight - she's too old and too experienced. But it's one of those fate things, packed with inevitability.
I'm glad you liked the Meeting. And I reckon that Aragorn's confusion would have made him even more likely to fall good and hard.
This must be such a hard time for Gilraen - she is losing her son - giving hope to the world - and being left behind. She is being strong, but I can see her becoming depressed, perhaps, over the next half century. She did die young for a Dunedain.
Thank you for reading.
TithenFeredir
· 24 August 2005
· Chapter 2: Duty
Oh, I apologise for not keeping up with this story. There was so much wonderful low-key humor in this chapter. Of course there were some who tried to take advantage of Arwen's stint as substitute ruler of the wood! It was neat to see that she could cooly foil those oppotunists. I loved the comments about the wood having "many leaves" and Arwen's apparent lack of interest in "playing among them", and the discussion about the logistics of being transfixed for an age were hilarious! It really brought that bit of romance back down to earth! As in the first chapter I got a strong sense of Arwen's actual age but relative youth.
Your surly Estel came across strongly as a character even though he was more the subject of discussion than an active player in this chapter. I could easily imagine the twins treating him like a cross between an equal and a pet. Although there was almost no desciption of the settings in this chapter there was still a feeling of reality to it. I think the natural flow of the dialogue eliminated the need for much background description. Very nice. I will have to apply myself and catch up! ~TF
Author's reply
Thank you - I'm glad you enjoyed it.
I think Arwen must have had much more experience than Aragorn when it came to ruling kingdoms - especially when it came to dealing with the kind of opponents you couldn't challenge with a sword!
Arwen must have had so many admirers - some, perhaps, with an eye for her closeness to power, as well as those who loved her for herself - that there must have been some finger of fate keeping her unattached and waiting for Aragorn to come along. Being transfixed by the presence of another must be a bit of a problem, don't you think? People might be inclined to use you as a coat rack.
Difficult to be full time brothers to someone almost 3000 years younger than you - although the twins have many of the right qualities! But they must have had moments of having to go off and be grown up.
This is going well at the moment after having sat unmoving for a while. I'm rather enjoying tormenting poor Aragorn - so it shouldn't be too long before the next chapter arrives as well!
Redheredh
· 11 July 2005
· Chapter 4: Games
Well coming to review so late you really don't need any more commentary. After perusing through the reviews, there just isn't much else left to say. Except that this chapter - and story! - is so good I must at least tell you what a pleasure it was to read.
You excel at revealing, characterizing dialog. And choosing just the right details to include. The humor is simply marvelous because it is so genuine and realistic. However, I especially liked Gilrean's thoughts and Celeborn's assesments about Estel.
Wonderful chapter, Bodkin.
Author's reply
Thank you. It's a very simple story - inspired purely by a desire to have an Arwen who doesn't drape herself over the furniture and mope in a very boring way.
I can't resist dialogue. It's usually one of the characters saying something that gets me writing in the first place. Well, at least it stops me overdoing the adjectives!
Poor Estel. Who would be a gawky petulant teenage boy in a haven of elegant elves? Celeborn isn't being really fair about him - and he doesn't see why he should be. But Gilraen - poor woman, it can't be easy to know that you know better than the great Lord Elrond and have the determination to get your message across. But he turned out all right in the end, so she probably succeeded!
meckinock
· 10 July 2005
· Chapter 4: Games
What a delightful chapter. I love all the gossipy parts, like Celeborn and Glorfindel making snide comments about Thranduil, Arwen and E2 making comments about Glorfindel and Celeborn sniping at each other, and Arwen and Curaniel talking girl-talk. Legolas, too young indeed!
‘Of course not – you just enjoy watching half-clad ellyn rolling around on the ground.’
Well, yeah. Who wouldn't?
Celeborn seems to take a suitably dim view of Estel's adolescent antics. What a great, sullen, adolescent he makes, too - glowering at every turn, congratulating himself on managing not to slam the door, and running away to the woods to remind everyone how much they need him! Oh, fantastic! Elladan handled him very well; he's catching onto this big brother business. Gilraen's musings about her son were so bittersweet and she is so, so right - as much as everyone wants to protect Estel, in very short order he has to be the chieftain of the Dunedain. Elrond is acting out of love (this was a wonderful line - Who would have thought that an elf lord of Elrond’s great age and might would sit with a grubby, tear-stained child dirtying his fine silken robe, with sticky fingers twisted possessively in his ebony braids?), but he's on a different timeline. I expect their discussion will be very interesting.
The warm, comfortable scene with Arwen and her brothers was very nice. It is good that they have such a close relationship - it will certainly be tested in the future. E2's thoughts on Lothlorien were interesting - I could see where they could get the impression that Lothlorien's battle-readiness has suffered from lack of use, but as we all know that would be a mistaken impression! It is interesting to see how the various Elven realms view one another.
Author's reply
Nothing like a bit of gossip! And Curaniel might change her mind if she actually saw Legolas! And, for all she denies it, she's definitely got a soft spot for Elrohir. Which will prove unrequited, I'm afraid. Still, watching half-clad ellyn is able to take her mind off it, so perhaps she will find the elf of her dreams sooner or later!
Adolescents are just - well - wearing. When they're somebody else's they can be pretty amusing, but your own are generally enough to make you tear out your hair. Elladan is quite good at big brother - but he finds it harder to switch between authority and siblinghood. And Estel is just so-o-o-o young as far as they are concerned. Gilraen is right that she needs to keep in front of them the fact that Estel only has another half a dozen years before he needs to be ready to fly this protected haven - and he has to be ready. (Mind you, I can see why Elrond would want to protect him, too. A few shielded years of sheltered happiness to bolster him against six decades of struggle. Doesn't seem a lot to want to provide that!)
Arwen is, I think, very relieved to have her brothers back from that cold hard place where they hid themselves after Celebrian's wounding. And she needs them - and will continue to need them. (I'm glad E2 and Celeborn stayed - and Arwen must have been a huge part of that decision.) Lothlorien feels such a distant and dreamy place, it would be easy to think that they would not be able to defend themselves - but Celeborn wouldn't allow that to happen. Very practical grasp of reality, that elf.
Thank you. I'm glad you liked it.
elliska
· 8 July 2005
· Chapter 4: Games
Sorry to be so far behind in reviewing...as usual this summer...
I loved this chapter! I was pleased to see the twins and Glorfindel arrive. And very amused by the conversation regarding Thranduil and Legolas--of course Legolas can't go to Lothlorien this close to the Ring War. Pity. I would like to see him in these games but I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation about why he was not there.
And Estel basically ran away! That is so typically teenage! Too funny. Along with Glorfindel's reaction--tempted to leave him indeed. There is something very funny about the thought of Aragorn doing kitchen duty. So it seems Estel is not going to be content to stay hidden in Imladris. Imagine that! ;-) But Gilraen's thoughts are right.
But most of all I enjoyed the interaction between all the characters in this. You have nearly the entire cast of elves gathered in this one chapter and they are all so well done.
Obviously we know how this ultimately ends, but I am really curious to see where you will take this particular of Arwen and Estel's story.
Author's reply
I'm rather behind in answering reviews, I'm afraid. What with one thing and another . . .
I even checked to see if Legolas could go and meet the twins. But he couldn't - so there had to be some excuse!
Estel wouldn't put it like that. He was asserting his independence, right? Showing that he could look after himself. I think I would have gone with Glorfindel's suggestion and outwaited him. But Elrond is as kind as summer and didn't want to let him feel unloved. And you never know, kitchen duty might have proved very useful in later years. He could have concealed himself in the guise of a washer-up in an inn in some remote town . . . He has to take up his own life in what probably seems to elves no more than a few weeks - half a dozen years learning the skills he will need to survive and rule don't seem too many. For all his princely training, he's going to spend a lot of time dirty and cold and tired.
Lots of people - including the less-often-seen Glorfindel - all able to be fairly relaxed together. Fun to do.
It's going to be quite short, I think. Not day-to-day detail, but jumping to key moments. And, at that, probably not going to the end of the Arwen/Aragorn story. Have to see.
Dot
· 8 July 2005
· Chapter 4: Games
You’re productive lately!
I love the start with the ‘formal’ meeting between Arwen and her brothers. I was wondering what the “problem” was that delayed them. Glorfindel rolling his eyes says it all, really. At least Celeborn seems to be getting some amusement from the thought of Elrond having to suffer through Estel’s adolescent escapades. I do love the warm relationship between Celeborn and Glorfindel. Especially when they’re talking about Thranduil!!
You do a great job writing a surly adolescent! '… but somehow, from somewhere, Estel seemed to have acquired the belief that he knew best.' LOL. Lessons in history and languages indeed. As though that would actually happen if he did go. It’s good to see Gilraen and Elrond standing firm and of the one mind.
'Elladan found him in the small room at the end of the library where some of the oldest scrolls were kept, carefully wrapped in silk.' O.k., so the first time I read that sentence I thought it was Estel who was carefully wrapped in silk. Odd mental image. Elladan is quite good with him. He did as well as anyone could, really. It must be hard to balance being a brother with being an authority figure.
Oh, I so would have done as Glorfindel wanted and let Estel find out for himself that he isn’t quite the man he thinks he is.
‘He sounds to be a remarkably tiresome young man,’ Celeborn said flatly. ‘I am surprised that Elrond tolerates his tantrums.’ Yeah, like he was never an indulgent adar. It would be so funny to see him experience petulant Estel for a while.
I thought Glorfindel summed things up very wisely when he says ‘what counts is that we have become estranged from each other. It is no wonder that Mirkwood’s archers look on us with doubt – when did we last emerge from our havens to offer them aid? When did the elves of Mithlond last come east? We are too often our own worst enemies, my friend, and in our own pride, we offer up our throats to the blades of our foes.’ When you think about it like that too, Arwen’s idea of the challenge is a good one – it brings them together and they become familiar with each other’s strengths, weakness and styles. As well, of course, as keeping them in training.
I love the fact that after all the rivalry between Haldir and the twins, it’s Mirkwood’s archers who seem to be putting them to shame!
‘ And he is far too young to be really interesting.’ Give that girl a slap!!
Your Gilraen is very wise. Her strength rivals that of Elrond. As hard as it must have been to watch her son as a human child in an elven home, wanting to be like them, it must be even harder now to let him be a man, especially knowing it is necessary to let him go soon and yet these immortals show little understanding of how short time can be. I think she’s right that she can understand this better than Elrond can.
The conversation between Elladan and Elrohir about Lothlorien was interesting. It’s fascinating to see what the different realms think of one another. It also says a lot about Lothlorien if even those from the protected valley of Imladris find it remote. Of course, there’s some truth too in the point that they’ve become more involved in the outside world and that’s why they’ve only now realised how cut off it is. I love seeing the three siblings together.
‘Maybe not,’ Elrohir spoke softly, ‘but we will look after you – one way or another. On that you can rely.’ Ah, yes. And so they will. I can’t tell you how interesting it is to see this time through the eyes of these people. You’re doing a tremendous job :-)
Author's reply
I'm actually feeling very unproductive at the moment! It's not good when the sun is shining.
At least the good thing with the adolescence of the sons of men is that it is much shorter than elven adolescence! It may be intense, but within half a dozen years poor Estel will be Aragorn - and out in the wild.
I don't think Celeborn wants to be totally fair when thinking of Estel - although to people in their xth millennium, the trials of youth must be irritating - but he's too suspicious of this heir of Isildur and not prepared to be fair. (Celebrian could manage her adar with a glance - but I don't know how aware he was of his manipulatability.) I like seeing Celeborn and Glorfindel as friends - they share a lot of experience, after all - and together with Elrond and Thranduil and, I suppose, Cirdan, they are a group of equals.
I think it must be almost impossible to be a brother to someone nearly 3000 years younger than you - but the twins seem to have managed that remarkably well. I'm so glad they have recovered so much of their light-heartedness - and I suspect Aragorn helped a lot there, even if it was totally unconscious. But they are his trainers as well - and, in his up-and-coming position, Estel has to learn about being friend/cousin/lord/commander at the same time. I suppose the twins are offering training there too.
It must be good for the elves to get together - they have grown apart in their peaceful tranquil way - or how could they have let Mirkwood struggle so while the other realms remained inviolate? And they do need to have some trust in each other - below the level of the rulers, that is, who do understand what each other is doing.
Gilraen is a courageous woman - of a line of intelligent, self-sacrificing Dunedain and she is probably the only person in Imladris who can put pressure on Elrond to see what Estel needs. Apart from being the only Dunedain around, she is also Estel's mother and that helps her pack some power.
(Yes, I think leaving Estel until he came home on his own would have been a good idea. But Elrond said no.)
I'm glad the twins (and Celeborn) stayed. Arwen needed them. And they needed to be there for her.
Sorry to be so long getting to replying. Been distracted.
Jay of Lasgalen
· 8 July 2005
· Chapter 4: Games
Ouch. Estel as an obnoxious adolescent. Old enough to be certain he knows best, and that he doesn't need anyone else's help. I'm rather sorry that Glorfindel's method of dealing with his 'running away' wasn't followed through!
Jay
Author's reply
Yes - it would have been rather interesting to see how well Estel managed to cope with being left to get on with it until he came out of his sulk and had to make an actual decision to go home. Might have been a rather good learning experience.
It must have been rather difficult for Estel as an adolescent - for one thing adolescence will have hit him at a time when all the elves still saw him as a child. I would think it might have taken them a while to catch on to the fact that he was growing up so swiftly. And everyone around him was so much older than he was.
I hope Gilraen manages to persuade Elrond to step up Estel's training so that he feels that the changes in him are being recognised. But I don't think either Elrond or Gilraen will let him get away with being obnoxious for too long!
Lia
· 8 July 2005
· Chapter 4: Games
Love this very much. I hope you continue. ^_^
Author's reply
Thank you - I am glad you are enjoying it. It will continue. I'm not sure how far it will go, but it will continue!
Bejai
· 7 July 2005
· Chapter 4: Games
Nice, Bodkin! Have I mentioned recently how I bow to the miracle that is your writing, with multiple excellent stories updated every few weeks? It puts my bi-annual schedule to shame ;) My favorite bits
- the friendly competition. And Arwen was right -- they elves do need to get out every once in a while, and remember they are allies.
- Legolas and Thranduil, making an appearance (in spirit and note, at least!)
- Petulant, glowering, teen-age Estel. "I'm going to run away, and THEN they'll see how much they miss me!" Yeah, I can see that ;) And Gilraen, putting her foot down with her son. And then going to put her foot down with Elrond :O
- Celeborn, who would not have been willing to put up with teenage tantrums. Been a while since he's been around children, clearly.
- E2's discussion about Lothlorien, and it becoming more remote feeling. Wonderful scene! And this: "It is not our grandparents I doubt,’ he said. ‘They are dangerous, whatever way you look at them" Yeah, I'd agree with that!
- And this bit: "but we will look after you – one way or another. On that you can rely." And we readers, who know what is coming, can't help but sob a bit. That's why they stay in Middle-earth for so long!
Wonderful chapter, as ever.
Author's reply
Thank you - I'm flattered. Note the minimal amount of plot!
The elves are remarkably isolated from each other, really - and getting more so. I actually checked (!) and Legolas hadn't been to Lothlorien before the Fellowship, so he couldn't come - bit of a nuisance really, but facts just get in the way!
Poor Estel. Raging teenage hormones combined with everyone thinking of him as a small child - trouble was inevitable, I would think. Gilraen wouldn't have been a soft touch as a mother though - she was the only member of his race there and the need to raise him to be a credit to his father must have made her determined not to indulge him. She knew too much about what it meant to lead the Dunedain. And, although I doubt she enjoys the thought of giving Elrond a crash course in the needs of teenage boys, she will do it.
Celeborn isn't all that fond of the thought of Isildur's heir. He is rather suspicious of him. Of course, it's always easy to tell other people what they are doing wrong. I imagine Celebrian could twist her ada round her little finger. Even though he is dangerous!
And that is largely why the twins stay - at least as far as I am concerned. As well as a not inconsiderable factor for Celeborn. The world, yes, but family too.
Glad you enjoyed it.
The Karenator
· 6 July 2005
· Chapter 4: Games
Another well done chapter. Arwen has the right idea in bringing together all the elven realms and getting them to understand one another better. Hopefully. Males in the competitive mode can sometimes get a little testy. :>)
The little story about Estel was good. Personally, I was on Glorfindel's side. Let the kid find out that camping in the woods all on his own wasn't the picnic he thought it would be. That would have been a lesson not soon forgotten. But as a parent and geared toward protecting the little yard apes, I understand Elrond's reluctance to do that just yet.
Gilrean understands the importance of balancing shelter and preparation for life for her son. Letting the young ones test their wings is a tough thing. It's hard to turn off the parenting and become a mentor. Especially when the kid does something really dumb. But consequences are a good teacher. As is success.
Very nicely done. I'm looking forward to more.
Karen
Author's reply
Competitive males can be a problem - but sport does give them a bond most of the time!
Poor Estel. Here he is, growing like a weed, and to the elves he is still barely out of the nursery. Elrond wants to shield him and give him a happy childhood - and like most teenagers, he is desperate to grow up. Yes, I think I would have gone for the Glorfindel option - although it might have been quite hard to hold back from intervention when he was getting really hungry and miserable.
I hope Gilraen gets her message across. Elrond is used to fostering his brother's heirs, but he's not had to deal with them as a father and probably always saw them as being close to adulthood. With Estel - once he lets him go, he knows the kind of life the boy will live and the dangers he will face.
Not an easy situation - but then, what in Elrond's life ever was? And Estel is going to carry on the family tradition. And then there's Gilraen, poor woman.
Thank you. More will come. In time.
daw the minstrel
· 5 July 2005
· Chapter 4: Games
I loved the twins' assessment of the Lothlorien warriors! You're really doing a nice job showing why Arwen's plan was necessary. They all need to know one another's strengths and styled. And of course, given the Battle of the Golden Wood, the twins are wrong, wrong, wrong.
The scenes with Estel are nice too. He's a convincing adolescent, Eru help them. Gilraen has her work cut out for her. She's probably right though. Estel can kick against the traces when he's being sheltered (not even allowed to go hungry in the woods for a day or two while secretly being guarded), but if he has to take on real challenges, he can rise to meet them.
Author's reply
The twins are being rather naughty really - typically male competitiveness. It won't do the elves any harm to realise that they all have their strengths and are fighting the same enemy. Oh yes, the twins are wrong. (Haldir from the movie always looks like one who wouldn't want to untidy his hair, though!)
Poor Elrond and Gilraen. It cannot have been easy to guide a boy through adolescence in his teens in a place inhabited by elves to whom the twins seemed like youths. They do need to let him mature if he is to be ready by 20 to go out on his own.
But I think they'll probably do a good job!
Redheredh
· 4 June 2005
· Chapter 3: Innocence
It is so nice seeing Arwen like this. Fully realized and an intelligent.
The stategy discussed at the beginning, keeping your enemies close, is what I think Celeborn did later with Annatar. But, it can only work so long if you can't squash the bug beneath your hand.
Ha! Difficult Elves! That gentle joke had me laughing out loud!
I totaly sympathize with Estel's refusing milk. I won't drink milk as a beverage/food either. After weaning, humans simply do not need to milk to stay healthy. However, it is a good substitue for meat, so a starving hunter just might know what is good for them. However, that is not exactly what Elrohir is advising the child, is it. Like Estel, I always gave my milk away at school. But, only to someonw who would enjoy it. ;)
Curaniel is a very likable character, a good companion for Arwen. Both are much more than they seem.
Loved seeing the mention of the farther battles in war with the Necromancer and Bilbo Baggins.
And as usual, the last conversaion and all the conversations are so natural and insightful - much like a little play or painting.
Arwen is being patient "For Now". But, how much longer? Estel is everyday growing...
Author's reply
Thank you. Arwen must have been more than just a pretty face. (All elves are pretty faces.) She has to have been strong and forceful and intelligent and skilled.
I suppose it depends on the enemy, said she reflectively. An enemy like Annatar is too powerful to hold indefinitely. Minor irritations - it's probably better to watch them rather than let them loose to get together with other malcontents. (I think Arwen would have been much better prepared than Estel for managing a council used to Denethor.)
I like milk as long as it is really cold - but I can see why Estel wouldn't want some that has been hanging around all day. I'd like to see how Elladan got out of drinking any.
I wonder if Curaniel went to Gondor with Arwen? I can see the politics that would make Arwen surround herself with ladies of Gondor, but she must have wanted some familiar faces. Most stories have her only elven companions in later years as her brothers and Legolas, but surely she must have wanted at least one female elf around.
The burst of activity around Dol Guldur and the Lonely Mountain make this one of those exciting years. It goes quiet now - for a bit.
I probably do too much conversation. But I like it. (And that tends to be how it comes to me.)
How much longer? Not much. 0.37% of her life so far.
Dot
· 4 June 2005
· Chapter 3: Innocence
I’m sure I keep saying this but I love your Arwen! She’s spirited, clever, capable and it’s just wonderful to see how much of a character you’ve given her. I particularly enjoyed the scene between her and Celeborn. It’s interesting to see how little faith he puts in this “apparent peace”. I like the fact that he’ll discuss his worries with her. And what a marvellous plan she has for keeping the warriors active and ensuring their skills are used while making them think they’re just having fun! I love the line “as long as you give them the opportunity to do what they think they want, they can be shepherded gently along the path you would wish them to follow.” Now there’s a skill that every woman should learn!!
I’m afraid I’ve been more like Elladan than Elrohir in Estel’s training. Elrohir is so good with him, though. Estel can be proud of himself now. It’s fascinating too to think of everything that’s going on under the surface. Apparently Elrond’s sons are far too clever to think that he’s just gone soft in his old age and let Estel go hunting!
Yay for Arwen beating Haldir at archery! I have no doubt at all that she’d be able to. I love her gleeful grandparents. I don’t know how Galadriel lives with such uncertainty every day. You create a wonderful sense of foreboding but not being able to know anything for certain must be so difficult.
So Haldir is peeved and determined not to lose again… Sounds like Arwen has done her job, then! Are we going to get to see this contest against Elladan and Elrohir?? I just love the way Arwen can discuss strategy one second and gowns the next.
I was just riveted by the discussion of the events of ‘The Hobbit’. “I put it to him that evading the watch of a fortress full of Wood Elves – and the wrath of a dragon – suggest an unusual level of skill, but he would have none of it.” Mmm. A little further questioning of Bilbo could have changed things quite dramatically. It seems that they’re as uneasy in Imladris as they are in Lothlorien. It’s so interesting to see a glimpse of this time from their point of view.
Arwen’s acceptance of her fate never fails to impress me. There’s only so much longer she’ll stand idly by, I think.
Great chapter! :-)
Author's reply
Thank you. Arwen must have been strong and charming and gorgeous and funny, don't you think? After all, Estel was used to being surrounded by beautiful female elves - he's not a man come freshly from the wild to fall for any gorgeous elf, but someone who has grown up among them.
And Celeborn, I think, had seen too many apparent victories disintegrate to feel convinced about this one. The Necromancer had only been sent away, not defeated.
Arwen has learned a lot of male-management skills from her grandmother and mother - and she's happy to hone them still further! She's even learned how to manage them by knowing when to beat them too! Poor Haldir - but at least Celeborn stopped Galadriel from beating him up.
Elrohir is better at patience than Elladan, but they are both good at being big brothers. Estel is learning remarkably quickly, too, but he doesn't always get credit for his skills - because he can't quite measure up to elves, however hard he works. And Elrond doesn't want battles to be more than stories in books yet. Estel will grow up soon enough. A bit more suspicion over Bilbo's skill would have been good - but even Mithrandir, who was travelling with him, wasn't that suspicious.
And prophecy - and mirrors - well, I wouldn't want to live with it. It's a good thing that Celeborn grounds Galadriel so well, or I would think it could drive her mad. (Power mad?) And both she and Arwen know that they can't change the outcomes of this, however much they might want to.
Glad you liked it.
Bejai
· 3 June 2005
· Chapter 3: Innocence
Nice, Bodkin! I fear I don't have the energy to give this the review it deserves tonight, but it was a wonderful read! I particularly loved how you brought in the elements of "The Hobbit." We are getting near Arwen's fate now! I love her wisdom, though, and her ability to be, just as cunning, wise, (and yet kind) as you would expect, given her family tree. Lovely, as ever. I've been drowning in work for the last month or so, and it is going to continue for a while, but you should know your updates are always welcome bright spots in my days, even if I don't get around to telling you so.
Author's reply
Thank you! Arwen must have been a true daughter of her parents, grandparents and ancestors - she can't have done nothing but drape herself over sofas and sew! Too many formidable female role models - and she is the one with the experience and strength to rule a kingdom (- and the sense not to make a big thing of her input). Years of solitude in the wild are not the best training for dealing with a council honed by Denethor.
The events of the Hobbit are fairly key here - and then there are a few quiet years when there is a lot going on below the surface.
Drowning in work is not a good idea. You need fresh air, fun and fiction! But if I can provide a bright spot, I will do my best to oblige!
elliska
· 2 June 2005
· Chapter 3: Innocence
Everytime I read one of these, I just love Arwen. I have probably said this in other chapters too but it is so nice to see Arwen portrayed as a thinking adult noble elf.
Better to have your enemy under your hand,’ she agreed, ‘than behind your back.’ I liked that line every bit as much as Celeborn did. And I love the rest of her conversation with him, her suggestion to keep them in shape, and especially the outcome of her initial work in that area--the idea of her beating Haldir is just great. I don't doubt she could do it too. Between her brothers and the fact that she was a noble elf, she must have learned to excel in archery. (And I loved the idea of Galadriel and anyone else sparing with swords. You have to do that sometime.)
As much as I liked Arwen in this chapter, I really enjoyed the scenes in Imladris too. I felt for the twins trying to be patient and let Estel light the fire. That would be so hard to do, I think. And I enjoyed hearing Gandalf and Elrond discuss the outcome of the burglar's adventure--that was very well done. :)
And the final conversation--Arwen just isn't letting this go, is she? Of course not. Good conversation. I enjoy the topic of prophecy in Tolkien's world. Change happens,’ Arwen said sadly. ‘Even among elves, although they resist it more than most.’ Great line. Too true that elves resist change and that just doesn't work, not even for them. I read a great article on this topic that Chris Tolkien contributed to.
For now Little do they know that is truly all they will get from Arwen.
This is great, Bodkin!
Author's reply
Arwen! Arwen! She has so little to do in the text, really. How many books do you read where the romantic heroine is barely mentioned until an appendix? Yet, without her, I don't think Elessar would have coped well at all with the more dreary diplomatic organisational demands of kingship. And yet, I can see her realising that, as an elf in a man's world, she couldn't be too upfront without raising a lot of hackles - and working subtly to ensure that Elessar's kingship would be a triumph on all sides.
Haldir won't have liked being beaten by an elleth. And an Imladris elleth at that! And I do love the idea of Celeborn managing Galadriel. (I'm sure he must have.)
The Imladris stuff just wrote itself. And I loved playing with the twins as they worked with their little mumak. They did well with him, too, because Aragorn was pretty good at all that Rangering malarkey.
I think Arwen is just looking for confirmation of what she suspects. She sees that Elrond is playing King Canute here.
Poor Elrond.
The Karenator
· 2 June 2005
· Chapter 3: Innocence
Arwen has certainly learned how to 'manage' people. Her plan to keep everyone on their toes during the 'peace' times seems to be working, though at Haldir's expense. The poor male ego. Her next move is to bring her brothers into the game. She's pretty doggone good at this.
I felt bad for little Estel trying to get his fire going. I sympathize with him. If there were no Bic lighters available, I would have had to announce that we were having a cold plate for dinner.
Don't you just hate the prophecy business? That bloomin' mirror of Galadriel's gives you just enough to worry. I know she thinks it helps prepare everyone, but there's something to be said for ignorant bliss. Ah, well, she's probably right. She has had a few years to learn to interpret what she sees, even if the interpretation is that she doesn't know exactly what she saw means. Arwen's probably using these 'games' she's initiated just to keep from pulling her hair out with frustration over what her grandmother's seen but won't reveal.
A very nice chapter. I really enjoy your dialogue. You give it a nice natural feel. It flows.
Looking forward to the next chapter.
Karen
Author's reply
The power behind Gondor's throne! She's had much more training and experience in managing people. Just the right amount of stick in relation to carrot.
Poor Estel. Yet within not too many years he gets really good at all this Rangering - the twins must have taught him well.
Yes. I hate prophecy! It means nothing until it has happened - when you can look back and see exactly what you did wrong! And blame yourself for things you didn't even know you were doing.
Arwen has suspicions, I think. She's had a long time to think about her family and their fates.
Glad you liked it. Thank you.
daw the minstrel
· 2 June 2005
· Chapter 3: Innocence
The scene with Estel starting the fire was very well done. I could understand the twins' anxiety that the child both do well and get on with it! That felt like a very real moment to me.
Galaldriel is really something. Her observations about how her choices have led to loss but also to growth and gain were very sharp. I was particularly struck by the one that she would still choose to come to ME, presumably because she met Celeborn, but possibly for other reasons too.
It's interesting to see this time from the POV of Lorien. They were much closer to Dol Guldur than Thranduil's stronghold was. I hadn't thought at all about how they must have seen these few years of peace.
Author's reply
I think it would have taken a lot to convince Celeborn of their safety. A very experienced elf who knew enough to be very suspicious of unexpected presents. And Galadriel is wise enough, I think, to prefer being who she is to hankering after alternatives. Most of the time, anyway. Possibly a over-large sense of responsibility - in the sense that she wants to control things that are not hers to command.
Poor Estel. Not easy growing up with everyone else being so good at everything. Elrohir is more patient than Elladan, but they do their best to encourage him - and he did turn out very skilled.
paranoidangel
· 1 June 2005
· Chapter 2: Duty
I've only just got round to reading this, but it's interesting so far. I like your reasons for keeping Arwen in Lorien and the sad parts where they all know what's going to happen. It was nice to see Arwen and Elrond's reunion though.
Author's reply
Thank you. I hope it continues to be interesting! I don't know how far it will go - not up to the time of the Fellowship, I think. I just wanted to be Arwen-centric. She gets so little attention and yet the role she accepted shows how strong she must have been.
Like a lot of the stories - when you look at them more closely, the romance is almost overwhelmed by the tragic aspects. It's interesting to think about how Arwen was prepared for her destiny.
Angel
· 2 May 2005
· Chapter 2: Duty
Oh NOOOOOOOOO! Is there more, is there, is there?
(oops excuse the caffeine hit)
Is she ever capable of one-meaning quirks? - and I am paraphrasing you here ;)
"But that one, at least,’ his naneth-in-law said quietly, ‘will not be demanded of you."
Both humourous and utterly foreboding, you handle some really iffy issues with great care.
The twins and Estel - who they are to each other. Brother, equal, pet or commanders.
Arwen - her role as daughter, granddaughter and her own sense of prophecy.
love the comment about spiders nesting in hair while they are gazing into a Maia for ages lol.
How Estel redeemed the twins
Galadriel and Celeborn (thanks for not making Celeborn the wuss he was in the movies lol)
and this underlying threat rising...
and so much more, and I really really really really really hope there's more...:)
Author's reply
I feel so sorry for Elrond. Everything he loves is taken from him. It's why he is REALLY HAPPY in Valinor with Celebrian and their sons and a whole passel of delightful grandchildren whom he will never lose.
And it's tough for Galadriel, too. This whole foresight business is definitely overrated.
The twins are nearly an age older than Estel - he needed brothers / almost equals and they provided that. However, Estel is growing up quickly and does need to learn that people can wear more than one hat - they are his brothers, but they are also his superiors in authority at times. I think he helped them, though. Lots of heirs of Isildur passed through Imladris, but Estel arrived a fatherless infant and needed them.
Celeborn is great - and as tough as they come. How could Galadriel love and respect him if he weren't?
And things are happening.
There will be more. Not in the next few days, but once I get going it all tends to move quite quickly - I just need to get into the mindset.
Thank you for commenting - it makes me want to go and write some more NOW!
Redheredh
· 1 May 2005
· Chapter 2: Duty
I loved this chapter! How could I not enjoy getting just a peek into the workings of their realms? And you made all the personailities involved astoundingly entertaining while doing it. You are one clever play-wright besides excellent writer.
Gossipy humour, wry dialog, foreshadowy angst, rich commentary - You serve up a lovely feast for your guests too!
I am glad to see writers finally advocating the intelligence and abilities of the elven-princesses and not portray them as some sort of wane, fabulous creatures or dainty trophy wives. I think you have shown an obvious difference in Arwen and her brother's abilities to actually rule. Give me Arwen any day. She is better at it and has aquired wider skills. Her brothers simply do not have their father's disposition as much as she does. OK So, she cannot general an army. She can always find someone to do that. I'd like to see E2 find a good housekeeper without help. ;) Even so, ruling a large realm by one's self is no picnic. 'Tis much better to share the burden with someone and there's nothing wrong allocating those responsiblites along traditional lines if that's what works best and keeps you happy.
You are building up the tension in Arwen very nicely, btw. Super chapter and I'm really look forward to the next.
Author's reply
I'm so glad you are enjoying it! There are times when they all just get talking and it's all I can do to hang on and write it down. Elrond, Galadriel and Celeborn, for example, just flowed. Mind you, they had some good stuff to talk about!
Elven princesses are tough. I think Arwen must have had to work hard not to overshadow Aragorn when it came to kingdom-running skills. After all - what are 60 odd years as a Ranger and occasional Thorongil compared to 2500 years as deputy-lady of Imladris or Lothlorien. Arwen must have been his source of knowledge (with Faramir's help on local customs). Elladan and Elrohir have the skills, but have abandoned them rather in their half millennium as obsessed orc-killers. Imladris has become a sort-of holiday home for them - somewhere they go for R and R. They are beginning to come out of it, I think, and returning to a more balanced way of life, but, yes, Arwen is better equipped for managing councillors and organising the logistics of supply.
Arwen knows something is up. She's not yet sure what it is - but I would think she must have some idea.
I haven't started the next chapter yet. Waiting for inspiration! But it shouldn't be too long. I'm just dealing with Earendil and the Enchanted Isles at the moment.
meckinock
· 1 May 2005
· Chapter 2: Duty
Enter Acting CEO Arwen. It was so amusing to find that even elves are not above trying to slip something past the person who's running the shop while the boss is out of town. Arwen seemed to handle them very efficiently, though. Looks like she's had plenty of practice.
I must take issue with her in one respect, though:
And many of them are far more attractive than my brothers.
Well, that may be Arwen's opinion, but she'll never convince me of that!
I really enjoyed the conversation between Elrond, Celeborn, and Galadriel. Wow, there were just so many intriguing personal insights, and it was salted with just enough current events (Dol Goldur) and gossipy asides (Thranduil).
Celeborn is just too wicked. I loved this line:
‘To which particular andaeradar are you referring?’ Celeborn asked mildly. ‘Because some of his ancestors offer an example that is a good deal better than others. Isildur, for instance, he would do better not to copy. Are you referring to Eärendil, who pursued an impossible quest until, beyond reason, he succeeded? Turgon, perhaps, who guarded a white city against the venom of Morgoth? Finwë, who led his people to safety? Or are you, by some chance, thinking of Beren?’
It's a sure bet that if she wasn't thinking of Beren she is now. Zing.
And Elladan and Elrohir were cute, trying to run Imladris and Estel at the same time, and getting Being the Grown-Up lessons from Erestor. Well, shoot, they never had to be the enforcers of order and discipline back on the ranch before. Children are harder to deal with than orcs. You aren't allowed to just kill them when they misbehave.
Elrond described the situation perfectly:
Her adar looked at her quizzically. ‘Would you say they are too young?’ he enquired. ‘They have, it would appear, managed quite successfully to become the siblings of a ten-year-old child. LOL! But Elrond is quite the slippery one himself - how could be on this side of the mountains and not see his dear daughter, indeed - I seem to recall reading something about some foot-dragging and arm-twisting that went on! If Arwen's been practicing on Galadriel for a couple of hundred years, something makes me think her father will be putty in her hands and he knows it.
This is truly wonderful. Arwen seems very determined to uncover the conspiracy and it's hard to imagine how they'll manage to put her off for what, another ten years or so? I can't wait to see where this goes.
Author's reply
Added age probably could lead to added crankiness - and a better knowledge of how to push for advantage. And Arwen has experience of acting as deputy chatelaine of elven realms that will cover almost the whole Third Age (bar a couple of centuries).
And they're her brothers. Gorgeous they might be to all others - but not to her. Even if you have to acknowledge that others find your brothers attractive, you still marvel at it.
I like putting in conversations laced with current events (when I know of them) - and references to history. And Celeborn is sharp as an acid drop - and not above making nasty digs at Galadriel. (It's one of the things she loves about him. She can't get away with being soft focus and mysterious around him, thank you very much!)
Elladan and Elrohir are a lot more capable than they let on. After all, why let anyone know that you can do all the boring administration, when other people are quite happy to do it for you? And Estel does need some people around who can act his age and not be stately formal sensible elves all the time. But Erestor is right that Estel is getting older and needs to recognise that people can be more than one thing - and you need to be aware what hat they are wearing.
Poor Elrond. He adores his daughter, and has cut himself off from her in the desire to protect her and it's just not going to work. She's going to do her best to coax him into taking her home - and she's not going to be pleased with him. I suppose ten years isn't much to an elf. But she's still not going to be pleased.
Thank you for reading and commenting. I can't wait to see where it goes either - it's not gone there yet!
meckinock
· 1 May 2005
· Chapter 1: Arwen's Heart
I just went to review Chapter 2 and realized I hadn't reviewed Chapter 1, so first things first.
I really enjoy your exploration of the interplay of foresight and fate. It's intiruging to imagine that Galadriel and Elrond, seeing an undesired outcome, did manage to take an action that ended up making things worse - at least from their perspective. All the characters here are so well-developed and believable. Arwen's deliberate dissection of her grandparents' cover story was so well done. I wouldn't have wanted to watch anyone match wits with Galadriel - but the daughter of Elrond did quite well for herself! But Galadriel's been playing at verbal fencing for far longer - throw an "aha!" at her and she just drops a little one-word conversation-ender: "Precisely."
Celeborn's musings are very revealing - his description of the aftermath of Celebrian's departure on Elrond and his sons really emphasized why the entire family viewed Arwen as the one family member who was still untouched by harm and must remain so, at all costs. Baby of the Family syndrome, to an extreme. I liked Arwen's interaction with Elladan and Elrohir and their discussion of Estel. It's nice to think that Estel was a warming influence on the family. I laughed at the comment, "You will have time to put your stamp on him." But dear, that mothering inclination will have to go.
I enjoyed the scene with Arwen and Celeborn in the tree, but the revelation that she has long known she would not sail was sad. That must have made her goodbye to her mother even more unbearable, not to mention her relationship with her father, who still expects some day to have his family all together again. What an awful secret to have to keep.
This is an exceptionally engaging and thought-provoking, story, Bodkin.
Author's reply
Fate is a difficult concept really - because, if it is really fated, then surely any intervention is in itself fated and becomes part of bringing about the necessary outcome. I think that keeping Arwen from Aragorn would have made their romance more likely - though I don't think Elrond would have thought that . . . but Galadriel might have.
If anyone can take on Galadriel and stand a chance, it must be her granddaughter. (A skill that will stand the restored King of Gondor in good stead one day.) I'm glad you think the characters are well-developed.
Celeborn and Elrond are together in wanting to protect Arwen from all harm - and I suspect her brothers would opt for it too, given the chance. I think that Estel must have been good for the twins - and, yes, much of the mothering will have to find another outlet. Not all, perhaps. He is a man, after all. Every cold will be pneumonia.
I think Arwen will have had her own share of foresight - and this seems a likely subject for it. And both she and Celebrian will have suffered terribly in their separation - but possibly been more pragmatic about it than their male relatives.
Glad you like it.
Dot
· 30 April 2005
· Chapter 2: Duty
I really enjoyed Arwen’s cynicism and attempt to be as intimidating as her grandmother. She does have a lot to love up to, of course, but I imagine she does quite well herself too! I like the reminder too that Arwen has helped run Imladris for so long and clearly knows what she’s doing. I think I tend to forget that so it’s good to see her quiet competence.
Cúraniel’s question as to why Arwen shows no romantic interest in anyone is a good one. I love the way you write her, that she is certain that there is something special for her and she knows that love at first sight is in her blood. She’s just patiently waiting for something she knows will happen. You really made laugh at their discussion of what happens when two people spend an age staring into each other’s eyes. That line “Your daernaneth would see that you were dusted regularly” is hilarious!
“Nor, come to that, one of the Edain.” Do I really need to say anything about that one??!
I’m still laughing too at the “manufacture of leaf brooches” comment. I don’t know if it was supposed to be funny but it got me chuckling!
The scene between Elrond, Galadriel and Celeborn was excellent. I wouldn’t blame Elrond if he feels a bit frustrated with Galadriel. I could never put up with someone being so darn mysterious all the time! Actually, that’s unfair. I mean, she clearly loves Arwen deeply too and understands what Estel’s future will hold. But I thought it was interesting that she says ‘You cannot take away people’s choice’. In so many ways it seems as though that’s what she’s doing to Arwen. But then, if she did send her home, perhaps Arwen would never make the choice she’s fated to make. I’d hate to be Galadriel. Such burdens that she has to bear.
Celeborn is brilliant! ‘Because some of his ancestors offer an example that is a good deal better than others. Isildur, for instance, he would do better not to copy. Are you referring to Eärendil, who pursued an impossible quest until, beyond reason, he succeeded? Turgon, perhaps, who guarded a white city against the venom of Morgoth? Finwë, who led his people to safety? Or are you, by some chance, thinking of Beren?’ Ouch.
Ah, so Estel is a bit of a handful, eh? How odd that the twins should somehow find him more difficult in the absence of both Elrond and Gilraen…;-) It’s a good thing they don’t have children of their own for a good long time yet. The punishment sounded reasonable to me, though. Erestor is undoubtedly right that the child is confused at having to obey people who normally wouldn’t have responsibility for his behaviour.
I loved Elladan and Elrohir casually explaining how they needn’t bother with too much effort because they know – and don’t seem to mind – that Elrond is far too much of a perfectionist not to check what they’ve been doing.
‘I can assure you,’ he said, ‘that I am prepared to make many sacrifices for my daughter.’
‘But that one, at least,’ his naneth-in-law said quietly, ‘will not be demanded of you.’ That’s ominous! Poor Elrond. He and his family are caught up in something that they can’t escape. And there’s already the sense that the best he feels he can hope for is that someday he can leave and be with his wife again.
Still, apart from making me feel bad for poor Elrond, this chapter was full of laughs and, as usual, some great insights.
Author's reply
I really don't think Aragorn would have dealt well with the tedium of kingship without Arwen. She was practised in the details and knowledgeable about all the tricks that councillors might pull and a skilled manager - of elves, true, but I'm sure that most of the skills are transferrable. He had grown up watching Elrond run Imladris - but then spent most of the next 60 years on his own in the wild (apart from a relatively few years as Thorongil in Rohan and Gondor) - which is not the best training for the intrigues of kingship. He really needed Arwen and Faramir, I think, to help him learn (and probably to stop him sneaking off back to being Strider again.)
Elves aren't supposed to go for second-best, are they? And they have time to wait for Mr. Right - but Arwen is pushing 3k. You would think she might have found someone to interest her - unless there is something to destiny. I wonder if Elu and Melian attracted spiders? (I admit to rather enjoying the dusting line myself! It just came.)
I've a sneaking feeling that Galadriel finds it harder to get away with too much 'mysterious' around Celeborn and Elrond. But that wretched foresight / mirror must make it hard for her to see things straight at times. What is necessary? What can / should they do to avert / bring about what they see? I can see Elrond and Celeborn fighting to protect Arwen and Galadriel really not sure what to do for the best. Perhaps E and C keeping her away from Estel is what is supposed to happen. (I think I would be inclined to go for the putting my head under the pillow option.)
Celeborn is sharp as an acid drop! And he won't let Galadriel get away with much. I'm sure it's part of his fascination. Most people just turn into carpet when she looks at them.
Estel is used to having the twins' attention for fun and mischief - they act like 3k-old kids around him - he's not used to them being serious and working. And he's not yet old enough to realise that they are different people when they are not in Imladris, being his jolly, happy brothers. But it's not long before Estel - being human - is going to have to deal with chains of command and being friends with people who are also his superiors and have to be obeyed when they are wearing other hats, so he might as well begin getting used to the idea.
I don't know that Elrond really will check the dot of every 'i', but E2 probably think he will. After all, Elrond has Erestor there to report back - and I can see E2 doing casual competence very well.
I do feel for Elrond. It doesn't seem fair. (I've just written a line somewhere else that fits in with your thoughts here!)
Thank you. I'm glad you liked it.
The Karenator
· 30 April 2005
· Chapter 2: Duty
I love how delightfully you have drawn your characters. They're so easy in their roles. Nothing is out of place or forced. I think it's hard to make the language flow naturally when my ear is so accustomed to hearing contractions, and you inject enough levity and casual cadence to make it sound perfectly natural.
I enjoyed Arwen 'rule'. She did a fine job. Little does she know that she's practicing for her future life role.
I also liked the way you wove the conversation about 'looking for love' into her conversation with her friend.
‘To which particular andaeradar are you referring?’ Celeborn asked mildly. ‘Because some of his ancestors offer an example that is a good deal better than others. Isildur, for instance, he would do better not to copy. Are you referring to Eärendil, who pursued an impossible quest until, beyond reason, he succeeded? Turgon, perhaps, who guarded a white city against the venom of Morgoth? Finwë, who led his people to safety? Or are you, by some chance, thinking of Beren?’
oooh.. Nice shot, Celeborn.
The scene with E2 and Estel just might be the singular truth of why we have no idea if the sons of Elrond ever married. This parenting business isn't nearly as much fun as being the big brother. They handled Estel well...even though they were amused by the kid being the burr under some poor, unsuspecting elf's saddle.
It was nice to see Elrond stop off to see Arwen. She's got plans and her mind is clicking away. But Galadriel's last line was the best. Some things are not within as adar's control.
Wonderful chapter!
Karen
Author's reply
Goodness - thank you. I do like adding a bit of levity - I'm sure there would be a lot of humour among elves. (Speaking to the expert here - creator of Daeron.)
Arwen and the twins are interesting - almost 3000 year old children, in a way - who are also in E2's case ferocious warriors and trained lords and in Arwen's a chatelaine and - well, a ruler.
But Celeborn - sharp as a dagger and dangerous as a panther. Well, he'd have to be, really, for Galadriel to respect him.
Big brothering is definitely more in E2's line at the moment. But Erestor is right in saying that Estel needs to be able to recognise lines of command and the difference between being brother and boss - and that the same person can be both.
Elrond needs to spend time with Arwen - he's wasting time here, even though he doesn't know for sure that it is short.
I'm beginning to feel agonised over this lot. I'm glad you enjoyed it.