Redheredh
· 14 November 2005
· Chapter 9: The Evenstar
Finally got to read this chapter! And once again impressed beyond belief. It's hard to pick out any one thing to praise!
This chapter and the entire story (and the series too) are wonderful. I so much admire how you blend together your characterizations and the text creating real people out of what could termed remote history. You make me feel that the 'sorrow of the elves' was indeed rooted in individual loss. You singing a powerful spell here and I am enthralled.
Author's reply
You make me feel that the 'sorrow of the elves' was indeed rooted in individual loss.
That is a very poetic way of saying it. I know what I want to show sometimes, even if I can't summarize it well - but I think you just did very nicely. Thank you.
RS
· 14 November 2005
· Chapter 9: The Evenstar
What a beautiful chapter. I love the way you expanded the Tale of Arwen and Aragorn and the feast for the Ringbearer. It read as if Tolkien wrote it himself. The bit with Aragorn being jostled between the twins was really needed in this emotional chapter. Glorfindel is such a wonderful friend. I love the sparring bit. As usual you conveyed Aragorn and Arwens love for each other so well. The conversation between Arwen and Elrond just broke my heart!! I have waited for so long for this update and believe me I am not disappointed. It was worth the wait. BRILLIANT!!!
Author's reply
Thanks, RS, there are so many layers in this, trying to understand how these elves withstood so much sorrow and how their lives were quietly entwined with the fate of middle earth. Hopefully the chapters that follow won't take so long!
Ellie
· 13 November 2005
· Chapter 9: The Evenstar
Excellent and very powerful chapter. Had to read it twice it was so good!
Can't wait for more!
Author's reply
Thanks, Ellie, I am glad you liked it! I figured it was a love it or hate it kind of chapter. :/
perelleth
· 13 November 2005
· Chapter 9: The Evenstar
Wonderful, Nilmandra, and I'm truly glad that you centered in on Elrond's reactions. The whole backstory of how he must have suffered all those years, the fact that even victory would prove bitter for him is elegantly understated in Tolkien's epilogue, and you draw it here with more detail, yet equally elegantly presented.
A more than serious sparring match whith his long-time friend was all the emotional outburst the lord allowed himself, and I'm thrilled to see this self-contained emotion, even if he was getting a bit more loose than what we are used to see in him... Wonderful. I believe that his conversation with Arwen was what moved me most.
I'm glad that you spared us the reactions of the rest of the house, the twins' and Gilraen's. And I'm so glad that he considers his reunion with Celebrìan "inminent". HE did have hopes, didn't he? despite the darkness, he was fully confident, and I like that little insight.
Great that you found your way back with this NIlmandra! and I was amused to read that you had already written his reunion with his wife! IT seems it's not only me who writes the endings first !:-)
Author's reply
A more than serious sparring match whith his long-time friend was all the emotional outburst the lord allowed himself, and I'm thrilled to see this self-contained emotion, even if he was getting a bit more loose than what we are used to see in him
As I was writing this, and Elrond did that (you know, I just write what I *see* and that is what played out before my eyes) all I could think was that Elrond took advantage and was unfair.... perhaps his one chance to be unfair in an arena where no one is truly hurt, more than a physical whack, that is. Its like he wanted to be knocked senseless and he knew that would push Glorfindel to do just that. Almost like a child just pushing his parents to be disciplined - he wanted someone to set that boundary for him, force the issue so he doesn't have to draw that limit, doesn't have to be in control, in charge. Sometimes its nice to have someone else be responsible and say enough. Not sure if that makes sense.. but I know the longer I am in charge, sometimes the more I want someone else to occasionally tell me what to do!
I believe that his conversation with Arwen was what moved me most
I am glad. Elrond's anger was gone by then, and only his hurt remained. And he had no reason to be angry with her, but how hard to separate those emotions when they are all tied up together in one situation. He did have to tell her 'no, wait' and he needed her to acquiese without driving her away. I actually wrote that discussion in plain English and then tried to 'elvish-fy' it. :/
Thanks for reading and the review :D And yeah, the ending is mostly written, though I'm sure it will be expanded on!
TithenFeredir
· 13 November 2005
· Chapter 9: The Evenstar
First, I was so happy to be back in this community of long, loving relationships. As I have said before, I love the way these characters interact. They are not without conflict, and yet with so many years between them it seems they are able to navigate those conflicts without losing sight of their love for one another. The sparring match between Elrond and Glorfinel was properly impressive. I enjoy those little moments that remind you that these two are seasoned warriors, but Glorfindel is the greater. Oh, to have been a fly on the wall and just watched those two go at it for an hour.
This is probably not an original idea: Elrond seems to me a lot like Frodo in that he suffers a great deal for the sake of Middle-earth, and he must remain steadfast in the midst of his losses. Unlike Frodo, Elrond goes into it knowing what he is going to lose. It's a good thing he has Erestor and Glorfindel to support him. The revelation that Arwen's choice was for Elrond like reliving the loss Elros was heartbreaking.
Arwen again comes off as a force, one that is gentle and supportive, but also decisive and quietly strong. I am enjoying your elves and this story so much! ~TF
Author's reply
The sparring match between Elrond and Glorfinel was properly impressive. I enjoy those little moments that remind you that these two are seasoned warriors, but Glorfindel is the greater.
Elrond really needed to have someone physically exhaust him... and I liked that Glorfindel could really push him. Glorfindel is Imladris's knight in shining armor in my mind, I admit.
This is probably not an original idea: Elrond seems to me a lot like Frodo in that he suffers a great deal for the sake of Middle-earth, and he must remain steadfast in the midst of his losses.
I think all of the Ring-bearers share this bond to some degree. The cost of bearing a ring is great. I think Frodo in his experience grew at a spiritual level (at the level of his soul, the core of his being) beyond what most mortals ever did. His experiences made him weary to the soul in a way that elves understand clearly, and why spending his final days among them, being healed as they needed to be healed, was the right option for him. I am really looking forward to exploring that later in this story.
I am glad you liked Arwen... she was a force to be reckoned with! Her love and strength of character literally helped change the course of human events. Thank you for the review!
Radbooks
· 13 November 2005
· Chapter 9: The Evenstar
Wonderful chapter and I understand why it would take so long to write such an emotional chapter. I had never, ever considered the fact that Aragorn had disobeyed Elrond's command that he not become betrothed until he had completed his task. Also Elrond cautioning him about others that might tempt him away from the way that he should go when he really knew what was right as he was in full possession of his mind and body. That was interesting. Was he not angry at Galadriel at all?? Although it still was Arwen's decision even if Galadriel had pushed them together. I so appreciated Glorfindel taking Elrond out and working out some of his anger and then just talking with him. But also then giving Aragorn his blessing and embracing him. Both were needed.
And then the fact that Elrond immediately felt the reduction of the tie that bound him and Arwen together broke my heart knowing all that he had been through. Just Elrond and Arwen's whole conversation was so moving and well written. *sigh*
I realized I have not said anything about the 'other' part of the story, but it was well done, too. How Elrond enjoyed having all 4 of his children, telling Aragorn it was his time, seeing the twins and Aragorn 'playing' on the balcony, etc.
Great chapter and while it was a long time between the chapters, I understand how very difficult it must have been to write for you and it was worth the wait! :)
Author's reply
Oh, I would love to hear an Elrond - Galadriel discussion of this! I think, though, that when Elrond was done with Aragorn and he found his anger mostly gone, he understood. Aragorn needed a light at the end of the tunnel, a beacon of hope, to continue on this long and uncertain journey. Trust Galadriel to do that, despite knowing that she will lose her granddaughter. She perhaps saw Luthien's fate and Melian's pain, but Galadriel has always struck me as one who could ruthlessly puch her own feelings aside for others or the greater good. She had to cause herself pain in doing this, but put Aragorn and Arwen first. The whole thing is so complicatedly painful!
Elrond and Arwen's whole conversation was so moving and well written.
Thank you... I wrote it in clear english and then tried to rewrite it in that objectively elvish way of using words that mean more than they look on the surface. If that came through well, I am very pleased.
This chapter has been a blank in my outline, but my problem was that I went first down the path of Denethor's spies... but the real focus worked out so much better bringing it back to Elrond, I think. Thank you for sticking with this despite the long delay!
The Karenator
· 12 November 2005
· Chapter 9: The Evenstar
I don't know how many times I've read this chapter now. Each time I did, I'd tell myself I'd review after just one more read, but each time, I'd end up so numb from the emotional turmoil, I couldn't think in coherent sentences. Still can't, but time's a tickin' and if I don't tell you how much I loved this chapter, the next one will be up and I'll be even further behind than I am now.
The emotion content of this chapter was unbelievable. In the course of writing all three HLs, you've done some marvelous work delving into the inner lives of your characters, but in this one, there was something different...an elegant rawness? I'm not sure how to categorize it and in fact, I wonder if trying to give it a name will somehow diminish it. It's too intimate an emotion to treat lightly. Here, we have not only the pain suffered by Elrond, his children and Aragorn, but the overlaying of how all this is not just about them. The whole of Middle-earth hangs in the balance and depends on what each one of these character's do. When Celebrian sailed, it was a heart wrenching, life crushing moment for her husband and children, but now, the stakes are higher than just one family. You did a masterful job of keeping the tone slow and rich without being sappy. I hate sappy. I'd tell you to cut it out if that were the case, but this chapter was almost climatic in how you drew together so many seen and even unseen threads. Everything was being brought together to set into motion the events Elrond had known would come eventually.
There were several scenes I really liked. Bilbo reciting his verse in the Hall of Fire. Gotta love him for doing his own research the old fashion way...and in the way that seemed natural to him. It's not like you don't have eye witnesses to events that happened thousands of years ago standing around, and I'm sure Bilbo knew they were there, but it just seems right that this wasn't his way to do things. He might be a hobbit in Rivendell, but he's still on his own adventure.
I liked the scene where the twins and Aragorn appear on the balcony. There's something sort of 'full circle' about that. From child to man with family framing him, supporting him to 'his time'.
There's nothing like taking a good beating to clear your head. I'm embarrassed to even tell you how much I loved Glorfindel and Elrond armed and banging one another around. Really, I have no shame. I really did try to look at the big picture and not the big swords muscles...ah, you know what I mean. Don't you just hate it when you've crafted this poignant scene, this exposition on character, this nugget of theme, and the stampede of fangirls screaming 'Sword fight' sort of drowns it out? Well, too bad. I love it when one of the former warriors gets to go a few rounds.
Elrond's discussions with Aragorn and Arwen were well done. I loved Arwen's line about the bride price. Oh, and the part about Elrond feeling his bond with Arwen weakening and his memory of Elros was perfect.
For somebody who was speechless after reading this chapter, I've nearly written as many words here as the chapter itself. And I could go on, but I'll stop babbling. I'll just say one more time: I thoroughly enjoyed this chapter. It captured me and took me wholly with each sentence. Wonderful.
Karen
Author's reply
I am glad you have felt compelled to re-read the chapter (and doubly glad if you aren't re-reading because its not clear!). I like that term, elegant rawness, actually. The emotions felt very raw here, yet these people are not barroom brawlers, able to simply duke it out to feel better. Well, Glorfindel and Elrond sort of did and I assure I was not in the least distracted by all those sword muscles :>) There is something to be said for physical exhaustion though, very useful to wear yourself out before you confront someone.
Even though these characters are not in the public eye, being watched and gossiped about, they are not free to just live their lives as they wish. I was thinking, like you, what burdens they carry and how they have to be obedient to this higher purpose without any opportunity to question why or have assurance of the outcome.
I am glad you liked the chapter. Thank you for telling me :>)
Nikara
· 12 November 2005
· Chapter 9: The Evenstar
Another great chapter. All of the emotions were so strong and heartfelt. I love how Glorfindel watches over Elrond. I can't wait for more, although I know it will only become more sad.
Author's reply
although I know it will only become more sad.
That is indeed the hardest part of writing this! Elrond got rather a raw deal in life, which is why he needs some friends like Glorfindel. Thanks for the review!
Inariel
· 12 November 2005
· Chapter 9: The Evenstar
This is a tremendously well written story. I like it so much, it stole my breath away.
The following paragraphs caught my eye:
“For a moment he considered allowing Aragorn to put words to his thoughts and tell him of Arwen, but Aragorn had grown much in his time away and Elrond would not give him the upper hand in the conversation they needed to have”.
“`I admit I want him off-guard,' he finally answered. `He has grown in body and mind. He will make a great king one day. But I cannot let him have control in this conversation, or this situation.'”
“`Master Elrond, I . ..' began Aragorn, but Elrond held up his hand to stop him. He was determined to lead this discussion where he wanted it to go.
Wow… Elrond is a skilled diplomat, used to negotiate with Elves and Men ever since his youth at Gil-Galad’s court. Does he not trust in his ability to gain the upper hand should Aragorn have the first say? I think that Elrond is experiencing something we Mortals so often do: his son is now his equal! I do not know whether over the ages he will ever feel something akin toward his twins, but now he realizes that Aragorn has grown in his full adulthood and that he has to adjust himself to having an adult-to-adult relation with Aragorn. And I think that this, added to his pain, is unsettling Elrond. I do not know why I am so impressed with his apparently small detail, but I was very moved.
Also, you reconciled me with Elrod. No matter how good and wise Elrond is described (“like a summer day”), when I read about his forbidding Aragorn and Arwen to marry before Aragorn was crowned King of Gondor and Arnor, I got disappointed in Elrond. I could not help thinking: “Well, at least he’s not asking of Aragorn a silmaril, like Elu asked of Beren… After all, earning the crown of two kingdoms is a task humans have performed during history, while taking a silmaril from Morgoth’s crown sounds more like a battle lost from the start”. Apparently, for a moment Arwen’s thoughts went in a similar direction:
“`The bride price is set high,' she said bitterly.
But then, the explanations Elrond provides for Arwen are so powerful and persuasive:
“`The bride price is fitting, for she will be no common bride,' replied Elrond. `She is rather a beacon on a hill, keeping him ever focused on the goal yet not hindering him from walking the narrow path.'
Well, I know it took more than that to persuade Arwen, but... Unlike her, I already knew the end of the story…:-)
Again, thank you for the pleasure your works provide for me.
Author's reply
Wow… Elrond is a skilled diplomat, used to negotiate with Elves and Men ever since his youth at Gil-Galad’s court. Does he not trust in his ability to gain the upper hand should Aragorn have the first say?
True, and likely what Glorfindel and others may have told him. I could hardly imagine the emotion that was running through Elrond's mind - as I was writng what I thought his motives might be, I was thinking this is a father who needs his son to know what the order of authority is.
I am glad the bitterness came through. These people were not free to simply make their own choices in life, but had to consider the good of Middle-earth as well. And for Elrond of course, from this day forward he knows that even victory will lead to bitterness. How sad! I cannot wait to at least get him back in Celebrian's arms.
Thank you for your comments - I appreciate knowing how people perceived the chapter!
French Pony
· 11 November 2005
· Chapter 9: The Evenstar
I'm too sleep-deprived right now to be long-winded*, so I won't be. I enjoyed this chapter, especially the close friendship between Elrond and Glorfindel. That Glorfindel didn't even need to speak to Elrond, just walked him outside, put a sword in his hand, and beat the stuffing out of him, and they both knew that Elrond needed it, that speaks to a deep and close understanding. Elrond is lucky to have such a friend.
*This is sort of like what we were discussing the other day. I'm not always in a position to right a long, detailed analytical review, but I didn't want to miss the chance to at least let you know that I read it and that I liked it.
Author's reply
Elrond is lucky to have such a friend.
He is and he knows it, I hope. He certainly got a raw deal in life, but as is often true, he has some great compensations and Glorfindel is one of them.
*Exactly! We don't want to ever make people feel like more is expected or required. If we did, then the archive does lose some of the community feel we are trying to obtain. I am sincerely glad to konw the chapter kept you reading until the end and that you liked it.
Dot
· 11 November 2005
· Chapter 9: The Evenstar
I was delighted to see this back – I’ve missed your writing! And what a fascinating chapter it is too. I might have to go back and re-read the rest of the chapters because I think I’ve forgotten little bits – how do you keep track of the time-frames??! – but that’ll be a nice treat for me one of these days ;-)
Lovely opening. You made me smile with Erestor and the mouth-watering tea. I thought the line about Elrond considering his reunion with Celebrían ‘imminent’ was interesting. I hadn’t really about it like that – that in all the sorrow and pain and resignation that Elrond feels about the future, with the certainty that he will sail West, there’s still the future that he will have with his wife. It must be strange after all this time to know that he will almost certainly see his wife in the not-too-distant future.
LOL at Bilbo and his verse! I get the impression that the elves are very fond of him ;-) I love the idea of Bilbo ploughing through old records and gathering information himself instead of just speaking to people who lived through those times. Which is pretty much everyone he encounters every day! And there’s both truth and sadness in the remark that "an active and curious mind well cultivated is a blessing to a mortal in the fall of life."
So Boromir is on his way and Elrond has decided to call a Council. I was rather amused at the fact that Elrond didn’t bat an eyelid at being told that the man was coming to ‘solve a riddle’ but I thought it really showed his wisdom too in recognising it for what it is and acceptance that events will continue to unfold until everything builds to the climax he knows is coming.
Elladan waved and Elrohir blew him a kiss as they jostled Aragorn between them affectionately, causing the grim ranger to smile Oh, I love that you made it practically identical to the scene from so many years ago. Without the silly outfits, of course…
You know, I actually thought there was something rather sad about the moment where Aragorn and Elrohir both try to sit next to Arwen and Elrohir gives up the seat. Thank heavens for Glorfindel. As always. By the way, what exactly does one have to do to get one of these massages that he seems to be so good at?!
I really like the sense of magic that surrounds Imladris and its elves – people knowing it’s there but none can find it unless Elrond wants them to. But was Elrohir throwing acorns at poor Boromir?? LOL. You’re doing a great job with keeping the references to Thorongil running throughout – it reminds us of Aragorn’s past, of his connection with Gondor and the ruling family, how much effort seems to have gone in to finding him again and how Denethor may be rather less than pleased at Aragorn turning up in Minas Tirith. Intriguing that so many seem to have come so close to finding him… I thought it was a wonderfully effective moment when Elrond tells Aragorn that ”your time has come” and Aragorn knows and accepts this. I also like the little detail of Aragorn moving away from Arwen but he taking his hand again – he may have to do this alone but her strength and love will help him along the way.
The entire memory of just after Aragorn and Arwen pledge themselves to each other had me completely glued to the screen. You’ve made my heart break for Elrond numerous times but wow, this was just so painful. All the many emotions in everyone involved were just perfect. Nothing is straightforward. I found it very interesting that Arwen’s words, in promising herself to Aragorn, become something more, that the effects of her choice can be felt from the moment she makes this promise. Interesting too is the fact that Elrond can sense in Aragorn a link with his daughter. It’s obvious you’ve really thought about all this and I found myself utterly fascinated by it all!
One moment that stood out for me in this chapter is Elrond throwing his robe “in the direction of the wardrobe.” That one action really shows us the turmoil he’s experiencing. The vision with the flower brought tears to my eyes, and I thought the part with Elrond staring at the broken vase that he had been cradling a moment before was superbly done. And, erm, have I said thank heavens for Glorfindel?! Well, I’ll say it again. That bout was probably just what Elrond needed. As was Glorfindel’s support and understanding. I was surprised at Elrond taking advantage of Glorfindel when he backed off, although it does reflect his state of mind, but I admit that I grinned when Glorfindel knocked him over! He was obviously reacting to what Elrond needed, though.
The scene between Aragorn and Elrond was great. It just occurred to me that Elrond was also in a difficult position because he has to make Aragorn see that he cannot marry Arwen yet, without it sounding like he’s just saying it as her father. It does, in fairness, show a lot of respect on Aragorn’s part for Elrond that he listens to him. Even if it is a bit late for some things. But Aragorn probably needed to know that he will have Arwen at the end in order to keep him on the path, rather than just a possibility if he succeeds. And perhaps Galadriel was distanced enough to recognise that where Elrond could not. Yet Elrond is right too that Aragorn can’t be tied to anything or anyone. I imagine it’s because it could be used against him to lure him from his goal. I must say, I’m so awed by how much you’ve brought this part to life for me. In the Appendix it rather sounds like Elrond just told Aragorn that he wouldn’t be worthy of his daughter until he was king of Gondor and Arnor but you’ve brought all the threads together, and shown us the people, the pain and the sacrifices behind it.
The reunion with Arwen was just… amazing. Elrond’s visions and the effect on him was almost too hard to read. His admittance to Glorfindel of the physical pain of Arwen’s choice and Glorfindel’s attempt to provide comfort and strength to his friend through his own anger, regret and sorrow just about broke my heart. And that image of Elrond sitting alone instead of with his children! *sigh*
I was really glad to see the following scene between Elrond and Arwen, mostly because it lets us see that Arwen, though she is a source of love and strength for everyone, can still feel bitterness and pain – at having to wait when she knows that she can give strength to Aragorn, and at all that she will lose because she gave her heart to this man. Elrond’s tears are so moving too. It must be so difficult to comprehend that when his beloved Arwen is gone, life will continue without her – on both sides of the sea.
I love the last line. Events are moving and Elrond sees everything come together. The Council, I suppose, also brings Elrond’s own role to a head before he hands everything over with the trust that he has prepared Aragorn as best he can and lets fate take its course.
Fantastic chapter, Nilmandra! :-)
Author's reply
You know, as I was writing this I was trying to sort out what kind of changes had to have happened in the relationships between the characters. Aragorn leaves very young, when he is really Estel and learning who Aragorn is, and then returns as Aragorn, this fully developed person. What do you suppose Galadriel thought when she saw him? I wonder if she thought 'he is the one, he is to be the king who restores the line of Numenor'. Surely Arwen had spoken to her about Aragorn and her feelings for him, so Galadriel sees him and she finds him worthy, so she dresses him like a king and sends him to Arwen and lets nature take its course. Who knows if she knew about Elrond's words to Aragorn.
You know, I actually thought there was something rather sad about the moment where Aragorn and Elrohir both try to sit next to Arwen and Elrohir gives up the seat.
I meant for that to be sad, so I am glad you saw that. The people of importance in Arwen's life have changed. No longer does a beloved brother have first place in that part of her life. Poor Elrohir! In my mind he is the more sensitive, and he has lost mother and now sister.
The scene between Aragorn and Elrond was great. It just occurred to me that Elrond was also in a difficult position because he has to make Aragorn see that he cannot marry Arwen yet, without it sounding like he’s just saying it as her father.
Yes! That was the intent. Elrond had to completely separate his issues with Aragorn from his role as Arwen's father. HE had to react as he would if the woman was any woman. Which meant he had to stifle his hurt and not let it drive his anger. How hard! It is a good thing Glorfindel creamed him first and exhausted him so he could think clearly.
I wanted the conversation between Elrond and Arwen to be indirect, if that makes sense. They speak in words that have deep meaning, though they separate the words from themselves. An attempt to be objective, I suppose.
Thank you for the analysis! As always, your way of bouncing back your interpretation of events is perfect for knowing if I accomplished what I hoped to. :>)
Mum's the Word
· 11 November 2005
· Chapter 9: The Evenstar
Oh, Nilmandra, this was so beautifully written! I'm almost speechless with the beauty, the skill, the depth of your writing.
You've woven together so many threads, and your expansion on the Professor's writing flows with his so seamlessly.
I love so many parts of this chapter:
The connections between Elrond's fea and those of his children, and between Arwen and Aragorn.
The love that was not destroyed, but strengthened, by Arwen's choice. (Elrond's rubbing his chest because of the pain, and his description of sensing her choice, brought me to tears.)
The description of Arwen as Aragorn's beacon.
Glorfindel's healing presence, wisdom, loyalty, and practicality.
The balcony scene! And Elrohir-squirrel!
The wise, loving counsel Elrond gives to Aragorn and Arwen.
The gentleness and lovingkindness that permeates this entire chapter, every scene. It shows the healing and re-strengthening that have occurred through the years after Celebrian sailed, and after everyone has found forgiveness over that incident. How the One does it is a mystery, but you have demonstrate that He does indeed cause all things to work together to the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose.
Thank you for this wonderful chapter.
Blessings,
Mum
Author's reply
Thank you, Mum, I am glad you thought it worth waiting for! Elves really are sorrowful beings, aren't they? And Elrond in particular truly ran a race of endurance, with roadblock and painful circumstance at each turn. He truly is as one purified by the fire and not destroyed, but made stronger. I do greatly desire to see him at peace in Celebrian's arms in Valinor (already written, as I had to *see* him content and loved to even write this part of the story).
meckinock
· 11 November 2005
· Chapter 9: The Evenstar
Good move, Nilmandra - soften us up with a few warm, comic, light-hearted scenes before you plunge us straight into Elrond's private hell. Elrond's mixed pride and sorrow at his vision of crowned Aragorn and pregnant Arwen were a perfect setup for this whole chapter. I got a kick out of Aragorn and the twins clowning around up in the balcony just like you had them doing during the events of The Hobbit. And it was amusing to imagine Bilbo painstakingly poring through dusty old volumes to do his historical research instead of just asking pretty much anyone standing around.
Then comes the hard stuff. I have to say I greatly enjoyed Glorfindel kicking Elrond's tail - and literally kicking the sword away was a nice touch. As was the hot tub scene. Nothing like a nice relaxing soak after getting the stuffing kicked out of you. I think Elrond's rationalizing when it comes to any serious risk of Aragorn getting the upper hand in a conversation, though. There's only one person who regularly seems to get the upper hand on the Lord of Imladris, and he sure ain't the Chieftain of the Dunedain. I get the feeling Elrond just needed to make Aragorn stew a little. Glorfindel manages Elrond beautifully as always - letting him work through it and then gently steering him back to Wise and Lordly mode. It was nice that Glorfindel greeted Aragorn and offered him the traditional well-wishes, too, when it was obvious he was going to receive a much more muted greeting from his foster-father.
Elrond's lecture to Aragorn about Doing the Right Thing was perfect. Not much he can do about the betrothal at this point; and knowing Galadriel engineered the whole thing certainly mitigates Aragorn's culpability to some extent, but this situation presented a good opportunity to warn Aragorn against those who would mislead him with bright promises. A very appropriate warning from Elrond to the heir of Isildur.
The canon text was very smoothly and realistically woven into the scene in the study, I thought. I liked the addition of the line, "Your time has not yet come," which you later bookend with "Your time has come" in the Council of Elrond segment. Elrond's anguish at the burden he is placing on Aragorn and the compassion he feels for him really comes through. And his anguish for Arwen is heart-wrenching. The near-incapacitation he suffers upon her arrival was unexpected and disturbing - taking Elrond to a point where he doesn't really know where he is. But the scene that really broke my heart was later, when she comes to see him and he can't bear to look at her for fear he'll see a vision of her aging and dying. Arwen's bitterness at Elrond's decision was well-played - she'll obey him and respects his wisdom but she knows how much strength she could lend to Aragorn if she could be with him, supporting him. The last line - "he thought of how long time would continue in Arda without her" sobering. It's not easy to be Elrond. But back to the beginning - I liked the little line about how his reunion with Celebrian now seems "imminent." So it must seem to him, and it offers him some hope of happiness, at least.
Author's reply
LOL, can't you just see Bilbo asking some elf to 'pass me that text' when he could just ask him and find out that said elf witnessed the events?
I am glad that the Glorfindel kicking Elrond's butt around ther corner and back came through ok. Elrond needed to exhaust himself and probably have some of the spit and vinegar knocked out of him before he spoke to Aragorn. Trusty Glorfindel is always willing to help :/
I am glad the canon text worked itself in okay. I stuck in Tolkien and realized how much I didn't sound like him. There was so much going on in this, and separating pain from anger can be hard - while Elrond is angry over Aragorn's disobedience, that anger is just fed by the pain he is feeling over Arwen's choice. Elrond's private hell, indeed.
Eruanneth_Luin
· 11 November 2005
· Chapter 9: The Evenstar
Welcome back. The respite must have been beneficial as this chapter is simply marvelous! Where to begin?
Ah, yes, Lindir composing a Ballad of Bilbo¡¦s Verse; trust an Elf to see the enjoyment in that playful pastime. It is a special joy to find that Lindir has, indeed, a soft spot and real affection for the Hobbit. But then that is one thing we so love about Elves. ƒº And speaking of play; thank you for the glimpse of Aragorn and the twins replaying the ¡¥balcony scene¡¦.
Elrond musing as to the lack of influence of the One Ring on Frodo was just another example of the danger of power to those already wielding it, whether for good or evil. (I am so envious of Bilbo¡¦s ¡¥exploring the tomes¡¦ of Imladris; it makes ones fingers fairly twitch with eagerness.)
¡¥he watched Arwen pull the filaments from them and prepare to weave them into a story of the Secondborn¡¦
Ah, what a grievous thought, but I truly am amazed by your insightful depiction. Glorfindel again demonstrates his unique role as guardian, along with his deep, abiding friendship for, and stewardship of, Elrond. This is what a true, loving friendship is all about. It is to be hoped that Glorfindel will be close by when at last Arwen leaves the confines of Arda.
Tears came to my eyes during the first confrontation between Elrond and Aragorn for the pain of the one and the delight of the other; and again between Elrond and Arwen. Elrond suffered far more than most elves could have endured over the millennium of his life. Perhaps his mortal heritage supplied the strength.
Author's reply
LOL, life has hardly been a respite, but a two day stomach flu kept me in bed, which apparently was enough for Elrond to get my attention. ;)
I amglad you liked the chapter - I thought people would love it or hate it, but I was just so glad I was back on track, I didn't care which!
Elrond did face loss after loss, yet met each one with a resilience to carry on and complete the task set before him. He understands well what it means to run a race of endurance. I was glad when the 'you shall not' of that opening quote struck me - the usage of shall in that instance is very much a command and I'm sure Tolkien new that when he wrote it. Using that gave me some good material. I am glad for Glorfindel being there to help (help knock sense into him, help him vent his anger, help him see reason...)
So is Blue talking to me again, now that I've updated finally?
shirebound
· 11 November 2005
· Chapter 9: The Evenstar
Rivendell is like Valinor, isn't it? Elrond keeps the seas "bent" around it unless he chooses to open a straight path for someone to travel. I never thought before that no one could find Rivendell unless Elrond *allowed* it. Very interesting...
Welcome back, Nilmandra! Great chapter.
Author's reply
It is fun to imagine how 'Rivendell could be safe for now' and Boromir couldnt' find it after 110 days... and how much of that was Elrond wielding Vilya. :>) I like the analogy of the straight road, though - that ia Tolkienesque way of saying it.
Thank you...glad to be back in the swing of things.
Dreamflower
· 11 November 2005
· Chapter 9: The Evenstar
What a wonderful chapter!
One of the things I disliked a good deal about the films was the neglect of the relationship between Elrond and Aragorn. There was no hint that Elrond loved him as another son, nor that he had fostered him. In fact, the movies came just shy of implying that he disliked him and felt bitterness toward him for "stealing" his daughter. There were indications that he was convinced Aragorn would fail, and the whole "sending Arwen away thing" made no sense at all.
The explorations of fanfic seem to more than make up for that neglect, and this is a very lovely chapter, poignant and real, showing that there was anger, but that even anger did not sunder Elrond's love for his children, both mortal and immortal.
Author's reply
As I was writing, I was thinking how hard it must have been for Elrond to juggle all of those hats - he is Arwen's father and wants the best for her... he is Aragorn's father and wants the best for him... and then he has all the elf-lord responsibilities to elves and men and middle-earth to weigh his parenting concerns against. So their troth pains him deeply, but more important, Aragorn disobeyed a 'command' (in the you shall not format) and so there is the 'greater good' that has to come first. Poor Elrond. He did love his children. I had to give him a friend like Glorfindel to balance some of the pain.
SurgicalSteel
· 11 November 2005
· Chapter 9: The Evenstar
Sorry I've never left a review before this - I've been reading 'History Lessons' for a while...
This chapter was absolutely heartbreaking - you can really feel Elrond's sorrow at his daughter's choice. Beautifully done, I enjoyed it very much!
Author's reply
I could barely imagine what it must have been like for Elrond to have to play prent to both Aragorn and Arwen, and manage what is 'best' for both of them with what is best for Middle-earth, of which Elrond too is a steward, and yet it seems he is expected to set aside his own pains and sorrows. That is a great servant leader - consistently putting the greater good ahead of his own. And why he needs friends like Glorfindel to mourn and share his sorrows with him. Ack, my heart breaks for him.
daw the minstrel
· 11 November 2005
· Chapter 9: The Evenstar
There are a lot of really good things here. I think my favorite scene is the sparring with Glorfindel. I loved the moment when Glorfindel knocks him down and kicks his sword away. He's Elrond's friend, but he's not taking any crap!
In general, I thought Elrond's relationship with Aragorn was well done. He sees how Aragorn has grown, how he's a man now, not a youth. In some ways, what he sees is a worthy opponent. But he's also able to see the son he loves and wants to guide. What a mixture of feelings he must have toward Aragorn.
So that's the standout, for me, but there are so many other wonderful threads running through here, including parts of canon that it's easy to forget because there's so many rich threads in Tolkien. You remind us, for instance, that Arwen isn't the first beloved person Elrond has lost to this choice. You take have us wondering what Denethor suspected or knew. And then you make that nice link to your earlier scene with Elrond's sons on the balcony during a feast.
Author's reply
Glorfindel loves Elrond enough to know when he needs to be taken down a notch or two! He lets him play unfair, as life is unfair to him, and then whacks him with the consequences.
Everyone needs a friend willing to stand between them and their children and let them work their anger out before speaking to the child.... and Glorfindel's standard is high - he lets Elrond feel what he has to feel, validates the feelings, mourns and sorrows with him and for him, and then gently reminds him of what he needs to do, no matter how hard. I love Glorfindel, but I ache for Elrond.
Jay of Lasgalen
· 11 November 2005
· Chapter 9: The Evenstar
Great to see an update of this! I always like the contrasting strands in your stories; the mix of past and present.
Elrond's realisation of the pledge between Arwen and Aragorn is sad, especially his vision of the flower fading and dying. Lovely imagery there. I'm glad that he saw the future of Aragorn crowned King, and Arwen pregnant - it gave him hope. I think the idea of Arwen as a beacon of light and hope for Aragorn, to guide him through all the dark times ahead, is right - without that dream I think he may not have succeeded.
I was very glad to see the twins again - and I like your take on why they and Aragorn weren't at the feast. I think encountering Boromir the most likely explanation (and I loved the idea of Elrohir throwing acorns at him!)
Jay
Author's reply
Poor Elrond, it seemed everytime he looked at them, he had some vision of the past or the future haunting him - he keeps seeing what has been and what will be or could be, and yet he has to go on living in the present and dealing with the pain. Ack, I would hate to be him.
We'll see more of the twins in chapters to come. :D
Amy
· 11 November 2005
· Chapter 9: The Evenstar
Enthralling how you write the familiar story being played out. Marvelous. Will come back to reread this chapter.
No time or brain for thoughtful feedback, but I wanted to mention also that I love the finding of the white tree quote. If I made a list of Proof that Aragorn is the king returned, it would be long and contain many things and deeds, but the white tree is the most beloved and oldest.
Author's reply
I love the White Tree too - not only is the wedding of Aragorn and Arwen the final 'Last Alliance of Men and Elves' it is blessed from the Valar and Eru himself in such a sign. Glad you liked the chapter, too!
Bodkin
· 11 November 2005
· Chapter 9: The Evenstar
Goodness, this must have been difficult to write. So much emotion - and the rationalising of some of the more difficult parts of the Aragorn/Arwen relationship. Whilst at the same time not going over the top into bitter Elrond or tragic hero Aragorn. Or, come to that, princess-in-a-tower, no-brain Arwen.
And you have done it so beautifully. Pain everywhere - yet understanding and love and reasons. I am so impressed.
Elrond's immediate understanding of Arwen's decision - feeling the change in her and their relationship. What a difficult moment - and he knows how they will see his insistence that things go no further until Aragorn is king, but he is right. Aragorn cannot afford the distraction - his is a race of endurance that must be run alone. And yet, Arwen's presence - beacon - is what holds him to the path and keeps him true to his destiny. Elrond's vision of Arwen as she approached him - I'm not surprised he went into shock. And twice! Losing not just Elros, but Arwen too. I'm glad that Elladan and Elrohir are there for him. And I love the understanding that Glorfindel has of them - and that Elrohir has accepted being called elfling. (And Glorfindel was right to be more concerned about Elrohir than Elladan.)
Glorfindel gleams - what a hero! And he's so much more than the warrior (although that part of him is rather . . . special). He's calm and reasoned and understanding - and the glue that is holding all these pained people together. Absolutely perfect.
I adored the Elladan, Elrohir and Estel on the balcony bit. Hard as it is for all of them, they have come to terms with their emotions by the time the ring arrives in Rivendell. Which is just as well, because, had they not, the ring would have been able to play havoc with them.
Thorongil enquiries, keeping men out, Boromir's approach, the council - it's all there, all thought through, all logically meshed together. Fantastic chapter, Nilmandra. Very well done. Poor Elrond - that elf deserves to have a happy ever after.
Author's reply
I was trying to imagine Elrond playing parent to both Aragorn and Arwen, when his role as parent to one was in conflict to being parent to the other. It led to some interesting dynamics, especially when one considers that Aragorn directly disobyed Elrond's command to him of 'you shall have neither wife not bind yourself in troth'. Yet he had to see when Aragorn returned home from the south, he was no longer a boy but a man, and perhaps even an equal... and a competitor for his daughter's affections. How in the world do you juggle all those roles and try to be fair to everyone? In the end, of course, it is Elrond who must gracefully give way and love them through his pain.
Glorfindel is the knight in shining armor - I have to bring him down a notch or two after he just shines in situations like this :/
Hard as it is for all of them, they have come to terms with their emotions by the time the ring arrives in Rivendell. Which is just as well, because, had they not, the ring would have been able to play havoc with them.
You know, that is a really good point and perhaps why Aragorn was to have no wife or be bound in troth.... this created division within the family and could have created problems between the men and elves, and led to a rift that would have prevented them all working together at the end to see to the One's destruction. The ring could have played on their dissent. I guess we give them extra kudos that they managed to resolve and/or live with their differences and still put the good of the many ahead of any one's hurt feelings.
Vicki_Turner
· 20 September 2005
· Chapter 8: The Sons of Elrond
I love this whole story but the main reason i'm reviewing right now is this:
Elrond has Vilya and Arwen seems to be comfortable with that fact and so I assume that Elladan and Elrohir know what their father bears it too, but to my knowledge, we don't know when Elrond's children found out about his ring. It was my impression that in HL: the Second Age, they still didn't know about where Vilya was or did I miss something? I would really like to see when Elladan and Elrohir and Arwen find out about Vilya. I'm sure that they will have some opinions of their own.
Author's reply
I would really like to see when Elladan and Elrohir and Arwen find out about Vilya.
That is a good question and great plot bunny! I will give that some thought and see if I can work it in. I know they do know at a certain time, but I haven't given much thought to the actual learning of it...
elliska
· 5 September 2005
· Chapter 8: The Sons of Elrond
Oh it is nice to take some time to read some enjoyable fanfiction. I have been going mad knowing this was here and I couldn't get to it...
Of course I loved Elrond and Arwen in all parts of this. They have such a great father/daughter relationship. I got tears in my eyes starting with the 'I promised, naneth.' line and I just kept crying.
Obviously we were supposed to expect something would happen to the twins from everything in the last chapter but I think the way you just plunged us into that situation from the first moments of the 'history' part of this chapter was very powerful. Elladan's role in helping Elrond with his brother was very well done.
I was so relieved by Elrond's conversations with his sons and the family's reconciliation. And impressed--you didn't miss a single opportunity with that. This was an incredibly powerful chapter. Fantastic!
Author's reply
And impressed--you didn't miss a single opportunity with that.
I was hoping I wasn't beating the proverbial dead horse! I wanted to walk through the experience of each one, and it was interesting how 'telling' Elladan's experience worked better than showing..and Elrohir's was better in the showing. Painful for him, the poor thing. I am glad you thought it was powerful though. Self understanding is so important, and forgiveness frees the soul.
perelleth
· 31 August 2005
· Chapter 8: The Sons of Elrond
I have a theory on the translucense...
I'm looking forward to reading about that!
Author's reply
We'll hope its coherent by the end of the story!!
Mum's the Word
· 31 August 2005
· Chapter 8: The Sons of Elrond
Another wonderful chapter, Nilmandra! How I admire your work.
These are a few of my favorite passages (my apologies for not italicizing them, due to my lack of html knowledge):
"Arwen touched his face, then took his hand in both of hers, stroking his palm and rubbing each fingernail in turn."
I love this habit that Arwen has had since childhood, a wonderful bit of individuality that you've given her.
And speaking of that, I've been so impressed with your depiction of Elladan as having more "human" characteristics like Elros (yet still being all elf), and Elrohir having more "elf-like" characteristics like Elrond. In addition, you have shown character traits from both Celebrian and Elrond in all three of their children. And the amazing thing is that you've done it so consistently throughout your stories. Truly, the Professor would be pleased.
"Elrond orchestrated the song of Elrohir’s spirit, focusing it on making new blood and knitting up tissue."
No profound comment; I just loved it.
"She crooned to him, stroking his cheek and to Elrond’s relief, Elrohir turned into her hand, seeking that comfort."
A lovely glimpse of Arwen as healer and mother -- caregiver.
I'll skip most of the forgiveness and reconciliation scenes, as they leave me speechless. But there is one passage that amazed me, sitting right in the middle of it all:
“'After our task was complete, we became aware of a great movement of horsemen out of the north, riding south east of the Anduin. The Eagles said they rode to war, to the aid of Gondor, who was fighting the Balchoth and the orcs of Mordor. ... We left Glorfindel and crossed at the Old Ford, joining the Northmen in their ride south. Gondor’s need was dire and Eorl’s coming brought them relief and salvation, for all would have been loss. In honor of their aid, Cirion was to give to Eorl the land of Calenardhon.'"
Again with the wider-world history! I had never realized that the founding of Rohan came in the same timeframe as the sailing of Celebrian. What a teacher you are!
“'You are the lamp that lit their path and the beacon that guided them home,' corrected Arwen. 'Always you have said that Celebrían was the light of Imladris and she was the warm fire and heart that made all feel welcome. But yours is the light that guides those in need to your door and helps them to find their way.'”
What an insight into Elrond and the Last Homely House!
I'm so glad that you show the intact bond between Elrond and Celebrian, even though they are absent one from the other. I suspect, though you don't mention it, that she was helping to strengthen the family even from Valinor.
And of course you tie the two stories together so seamlessly.
Well done, dear Nilmandra!
Blessings,
Mum
Author's reply
When I was writing the reconciliation and forgiveness scenes, I was of course thinking of how hard it is for anyone to come to those places on their own; and of course raises the question of to whom one must ultimately ask forgiveness of or be reconciled too. Hopefully an analogy serves some purpose in that light, though Eru may be distant.
The elves were more fortunate then men, perhaps...since we don't know exactly what men knew, since they walked among the Valar who had contact with Eru.
Thank you for your kind words.