shirebound
· 13 November 2005
· Chapter 27: 27: Halargil of the Guard of the Citadel
What a tender, intimate scene. May we all pass on with such peace, and surrounded by such love.
Author's reply
I wanted to examine how the return of the King would effect the folk of Gondor as they looked at receiving death, the Gift of Iluvatar to mortals, and how it would again become a blessed event and no longer a reason to know fear, terror, and alienation. And here also we see that the reassurance that the living will be cared for aids the one dying to do so with grace.
So glad you appreciated this.
Kitty
· 13 November 2005
· Chapter 26: 26: Searching for Answers
Frodo doesn't like Wasnior? Same here! Even if I know him from "Lesser ring" and know he can't be completely bad, otherwise Aragorn would never have accepted him as ambassador. But I didn't trust him from the start, and what Armanthol said didn't improve my opinion of Wasnior. He is a bit too creepy for my taste. And too curious. Well, that is only understandable, he wants to know what happened and to use his knowledge to the advantage of Umbar, but still, I don't love the way he tries to gather information. And I love his companions even less than himself.
Frodo did a great job in answering Wasnior without giving away anything important. And it was very reassuring to know the guards were there and had an eye on them. Loved it how Belladon was escorted back. The Umbarians are guarded for their own safety? Well, I doubt that is the whole truth *evil grin* Anyway, he didn't find out much of use, and the little he was able to find out wasn't very pleasant for them - their spy killed by their own people, their fleet taken and all that.
And I wonder about the listening servant - on which side may he be?
Author's reply
Wasnior from the beginning is one that grates on the psyche, I'm finding. And I think Frodo would have had a difficult time warming to him, either. And I do think his natural response would have been to fall back on "But we were so busy travelling we didn't get to know one another super well...."
Umbar may have been part of Gondor for a time, but I suspect its folks have always felt alienated from the rest of the realm and were glad when at the deposition of Castamir they seceded from the nation. Their siding with Mordor and the presence of so many of the Black Numenoreans must have made it uncomfortable for Meneldil's heirs to deal with over the years, and there must have been a feeling of relief when at last the pretence was over that they were happy being part of Gondor.
As for the listening servant--who's to say whom he would rather sell information to in the end, as I suspect that life in Umbar has made him as much as an undirected opportunist as the greater part of his countrymen.
grumpy
· 13 November 2005
· Chapter 26: 26: Searching for Answers
So Wasnoir and his men are after sneaking arround to find out imformation. Very astute of Frodo not to like him. He was sort of like a bug, one could not shake off. Even Wasnior's servants are out for themselves. very interesting.
Author's reply
Yes, I think the atmosphere in Umbar would have promoted the development of paranoia and opportunism; and the folk of more noble lands would all find those from Umbar to be pretty difficult to deal with over time.
Bodkin
· 13 November 2005
· Chapter 26: 26: Searching for Answers
They are only trying to safeguard their interests and escape the collapse of Sauron's power with the least possible damage for Umbar - but these are not nice people! And their spies are not nice people either!
I don't blame Frodo for doing his best to avoid Wasnior. Seems the best thing to do!
Author's reply
Remember, the Black Numenoreans settled in Numenor, and there Ar-Pharazon's folks who remained in Middle Earth tended to congregate also; then that was where Castamir and his followers fled to after his usurpation of the throne of Gondor was itself overthrown, and they lived under the oppression of Sauron. I agree, they have reason to be as they are, and also show reason not to like them or trust them.
And we already know what Landrion's sculptor spy was like! Heh!
TithenFeredir
· 13 November 2005
· Chapter 26: 26: Searching for Answers
These folks from Umbar make me uneasy. I suppose it is reasonable for them to want to know what is going on and how they will fare in the new order, but it still gives me the creeps. I think they are up to no good. The profit-seeking servant is creepy too. Things are not all straightforward in the new kingdom. ~TF
Author's reply
Things haven't been straightforward in Umbar for a VERY long time, for about twelve to fifteen hundred years if not longer, in fact, according to the Appendices. And I think that such a twisted atmosphere as one would expect from those who willingly allied themselves with Sauron and who have descendants of the Black Numenoreans would breed primarily folks who are NOT nice and downright creepy, from the lords of the realm to the least servants.
Thanks so much for all the feedback, TF.
TithenFeredir
· 13 November 2005
· Chapter 25: 25: Honoring Service
Aragorn is getting a lot of mileage from the Thorongil thing, but it appears most everyone who knew him then is pleased with the revelation. ~TF
Author's reply
Tolkien indicated that about the only person in Gondor who didn't truly appreciate Thorongil's natural abilities, nobility, and skills was Denethor; so I suspect that those who were old enough to remember and now recognize him would be very happy, for they know this one did and hopefully still loves Gondor and will do as well by her as he can.
And it's fun to play with the ways folks might have come to recognize him--it happens several times in The King's Commission and Lesser Ring.
Glad you appear to enjoy the thought Thorongil as the King Elessar is pleasing to those who are in on that knowledge.
I have some catching up to do. Again it's interesting to see things through the eyes of these visitors. They seem a bit paranoid, but not without justification. I am amazed at the details you have thought through concerning Aragorn's new responsibilities. ~TF
Author's reply
So glad you appreciate the details being fit into the story. I find this is one area that has always intrigued me, showing how things would be done.
As for those from Umbar--they are paranoid both because of this unprecedented situation as well as because, being descended from those who chose the darker ways, this is the natural way of life for them, the mindset they've lived with all their lives.
Glad to see you catching up, TithenFeredir.
harrowcat
· 13 November 2005
· Chapter 26: 26: Searching for Answers
Knowledge is power in (almost) all cultures. I think that the Bards had better get busy spreading the truth around and quicky before the rumour mill pieces the jigsaw together in mis-shapen form to the detriment of all good folk.
I'm with Frodo - I don't like Wasnior and I am glad that the guardsman warned him off. Frodo could do without this even though he has had plenty of practice with abnoxious and interfering relatives. I am not sure I would have been quite so polite as either Frodo or the Guard but it is just as well that they were diplomatic.
Author's reply
How much of what the Bards, patterers, and so on of Gondor will produce that will make it to Umbar is questionable; but there are going to be a LOT of rumors right from the start, I'd think, in such a culture as Gondor's.
And you're right--it's just as well both Frodo and the guard have been diplomatic; and dealing with Lobelia, Lotho, and Otho has indeed given Frodo plenty of practice in dealing gracefully with importunistic and obnoxious busybodies! Thanks for the feedback!
Armariel
· 13 November 2005
· Chapter 26: 26: Searching for Answers
pooey on Wasnior! yay Frodo for telling him what for....
*grin*
~~~{~@~~~{~@~~~{~@~~~{~@~~~{~@~~~{~@
Author's reply
Yes, and he dismissed him with so much panache as well, didn't he? Heh!
Radbooks
· 13 November 2005
· Chapter 26: 26: Searching for Answers
I love this line:
“We Hobbits simply enjoy.”
More of us need to do that! I know I do. :) I also liked Frodo's comment to Wasnior that he respected Aragorn, but that he didn't know him well and the other way as well. Their time together so far wouldn't have allowed them to get to know each other's personal lives that much. There had been far too much danger along the way. And of course you knew that there would be guardsmen watching over Frodo wherever he was at.
My first thought with the Umbaran spy being down in the lower levels of the city was how did they allow him to get down that far? And then I wondered if they allowed him to go so that they could follow him and find out his contacts in the city. Then they might have a spy within their midst! :)
Author's reply
So glad you appreciated that one short statement by Frodo, Radbooks. Yes, we all need to do that, just let go and let God and just enjoy, at least from time to time. It's part of what we love about Hobbits, after all.
And I suspect that indeed the Umbarian spy was allowed to get so far in part to learn whom his contacts might be, although I suspect since Varondil wasn't caught he might have managed to shake those following him at least for a short time.
And am looking forward to your next chapter, of course.
Linda Hoyland
· 12 November 2005
· Chapter 26: 26: Searching for Answers
I do not like Wasnior,as nothing annoys me more than strangers asking personal questions,especially about my health.I hope these unwelcome guests are not going to cause trouble for our heroes,but then that would be a good plot twist !
Author's reply
Oh, we'll get our plot twist with them--you can count on it. And he's a busybody, but must be to represent his own land's admittedly twisted interests. Wasnior is slimy, but you may come to detest others more as the story continues.
French Pony
· 12 November 2005
· Chapter 26: 26: Searching for Answers
Wasnior is quite the busybody, isn't he? He also appears to be learning more, perhaps, than people intend to tell him. His sidekicks may be goons, but Wasnior strikes me as intellingent and easily underestimated. He's perceptive and thoughtful, and he seems to be planning something here.
Author's reply
No, you can't underestimate the likes of Wasnior, but don't make the mistake of overestimating him, either. His frame of reference isn't big enough to truly appreciate what he is learning of the new order in Gondor and Arnor. As for the others being goons--I am not certain that is true of Beslor, but I think you'll come to the point of truly detesting Angrapain.
shirebound
· 12 November 2005
· Chapter 26: 26: Searching for Answers
I really like how polite -- but firm -- the Guardsmen are. They do their city (and King and Frodo) credit.
Author's reply
Yes, honor has always been important in Gondor and particularly in the White City; but with the coming of the King respect, I would think, would be insisted upon from all, including nosy folks from Umbar. So glad you appreciated this, Shirebound.
Dreamflower
· 12 November 2005
· Chapter 26: 26: Searching for Answers
Frodo's perceptions are keen. Something he didn't like about Wasnior? I don't doubt it. I like the way Frodo corrected the Umbarian's misconceptions without giving any real information away. He doesn't like being called Lord. His people enjoy life. His "followers" are his kindred and friends. Nothing that Wasnior can take hold of and figure out, yet he managed to be cold without being outright rude. Wish he'd given Wasnior one of his old Looks. The Man would probably have feared he'd been given the evil eye by the powerful halfling magician, LOL!
I like the references to some of those spies and such that we've met before. Very subtle. It's a shame that "Landrion's sculptor" is going to have several years before he gets caught and put out of business.
And the listening servant--will he approach the Steward or King with his information? Or will he offer to gather information for the Umbarians? Very curious.
Author's reply
Yes, I think that Frodo would rather quickly figure Wasnior out, and is good at giving inconsequential information. He may give the Look yet--but if so, it will be in the not too distant future.
As for the listening servant, am not certain yet whom he might approach. But it goes to show that in an environment that grows Wasniors and Landrions and Angrapains, no one can truly trust anyone else.
Thanks so much for the feedback, Dreamflower.
Andrea
· 12 November 2005
· Chapter 25: 25: Honoring Service
“He reminds me strongly of the Lord Captain Thorongil when he would visit here with the Lord Steward Ecthelion. And certainly this Lord Hardorn reminds me of his aide.”
It seems that Aragorn made a great impression on the servants of Minas Tirith when he lived there as Thorongil. And those who know him since these days will gladly help him now to feel more at home.
A lot of things will change, and for the better, I believe!
It made a great impression on me, when the new king offered his service as a healer to all the inhabitants of the citadel. Things like that would have been impossible in Denethor's days!
Author's reply
Yes, the King returned has brought a great deal of fresh air into the Citadel of Minas Tirith, and will do likewise throughout the realm.
According to the Appendices, Thorongil was greatly loved by the people of Gondor, and I wished to explore that theme through those who remembered and recognized him. And I think that the born healer would be most desirous of making certain those within his household, whether family, servants, guests, or advisors were well cared for.
Thanks, Andrea, for the feedback.
grumpy
· 12 November 2005
· Chapter 25: 25: Honoring Service
Great chapter. Belveramil, exranger of Ithilien, now waker of wary warriors, knows his king, from when he was Caption Thorongil. I am so glad that Aragorn has some one he knows in the Citadel.
Poor Galador, still trying, and still confused by the new king.
Love that meeting of the staff of the Citadel. That Aragorn will not have discourtesy to the staff. Plus one of the older ones remembers Captain Thorongil.
Author's reply
At least Belveramir knows that the new King is fair, competent, a good military leader, compassionate, and is glad to see him!
As for Galador--he's officious, yes; but he's trying to forge a place for himself and not only trying too hard, but not really putting things in perspective. He knows dealing with the nobles, and thinks of that first; being practical and courteous with the staff is probably something he'd never contemplated before.
So glad you enjoyed this.
Radbooks
· 12 November 2005
· Chapter 25: 25: Honoring Service
I would not want the job of waking Aragorn... well, maybe I would! *wink* But I am very glad that Belveramir is someone that Aragorn knows and will be comfortable having as a valet and having him in and out of his chambers. Those kinds of things will make a difficult transition easier for him. And just having that easy acceptance of him as the new king has to be wonderful for Aragorn.
I thought it was interesting that several of the servants wanted to leave the Citadel completely and wondered if they were fearful of leaving under Denethor's rule. It doesn't surprise me that some would want to go with Faramir - that would be natural, but the other does. Although, maybe they had just felt duty bound to serve and as the king was giving them an honorable way to leave, they were taking advantage of it.
Galador, Galador, Galador. I wonder how long it will take him to learn that he is not going to be able to 'handle' Aragorn. I'm sure he will keep attempting to for awhile, but Aragorn will just keep putting him in his proper place... some people just don't quite listen and learn. :)
Author's reply
Oh, I would have loved being Arwen, myself, and being allowed to love and be loved by Aragorn, and to awaken him in the mornings. And having one close servant who knows and already honors him for what he was as well as for his new role must be reassuring for both Aragorn and Belveramir.
Some folk can't take major changes within even familiar environments, and at such a time will want to make new starts, while I suspect a few had wanted to leave before, but didn't feel free to do so until they had official permission to do so and the assurance this is fine by the new staff. How many times I've subbed in a classroom and found the students can't even take minor changes to how instruction is offered--yet change the room completely and they're fine with it.
And Aragorn was warned that dealing with Galador is not easy, as he is remarkably single-minded.
So glad you enjoyed this, Radbooks.
Elentariel
· 12 November 2005
· Chapter 25: 25: Honoring Service
I find the people's reactions to who Aragorn is/was decidedly amusing. I really enjoy reading about Aragorn's relationship with the staff of the citadel. Perhaps you could write a piece on how Aragprn changes rules and the livery and other things over the course of his rule?
Author's reply
Part of that will come into play in this story, Elentariel, although exactly how much I'm not certain. And I do think Aragorn would have enjoyed meeting old companions, particularly when they are glad to see him return in the end.
Thanks for the feedback.
Linda Hoyland
· 12 November 2005
· Chapter 25: 25: Honoring Service
What a delightful encounter for Aragorn and his former colleague !I'm enjoying seeing Aragorn have a little fun seeing people try to guess that he is Thorongil !
I also enjoyed the way he treats the servants.Thank you for your much appreciated review of my my story.There is indeed a lot of Boromir in Elbeth.
Author's reply
Those who knew Thorongil are going to be pleased to see what several more years experience has made of the Lord Captain; those who didn't are still going to see marked changes for the better within the Citadel and the realm in general.
And I do think Aragorn would have enjoyed being recognized over time, and would have insisted all be treated with dignity.
Glad that Aragorn is making them wait. Wasnior and his people may be up to no good. Looks like right now they are collecting information. Hope the guards keep a close eye on them.
Author's reply
I think their main purpose for being in Gondor right now is to get information, so I agree--Aragorn does well to make these folks wait. Umbar has been a thorn in the side of Gondor for far too long, I suspect, and as Aragorn has every reason to mistrust them.
Raksha The Demon
· 11 November 2005
· Chapter 14: 14: The King's Procession
What a lovely chapter!
I particularly enjoyed the Faramir/Aragorn interaction; especially that Faramir is quick enough to realize that Aragorn is the famous Thorongil, and the bit where a friendly gesture becomes a brotherly clasp was beautiful.
And the image of the lords and the hobbits walking up the circles of the city, rained on by thrown flowers and petals was also marvelous. Being a Faramir-fan, I was pleased that the people of the White City didn't forget their love for him, in the excitement of the King's Return.
A great day for Gondor! And I liked seeing Frodo's impressions of Minas Tirith.
Author's reply
As one who also loves Faramir, I felt that here would begin the true relationship between the two of them, the King and the Steward, and that Faramir would begin to find in Aragorn the best of his father and brother. And I truly believe recognition of the fact the new King held respect and even beginning affection for Faramir would help add to Aragorn's acceptance.
So glad you love the mixture of images here, the gladness the King has come again, the gladness the beloved Lord Faramir is accepted and confirmed in his place and will be a part of the new order.
And glad also you liked Frodo's impressions. I think they'd be pretty strong.
Baggins Babe
· 11 November 2005
· Chapter 25: 25: Honoring Service
"We found we had to stand well out of reach and cough when it was our turn, for we Hobbits don’t make enough noise with our feet to waken him that way.”
How typically Pippin. Loved the list of things a Ranger has to look out for too - wolves, orcs, wargs, trolls........... No wonder Aragorn sleeps with a knife to hand. I wonder how many years it took before he was able to relax in his sleep - if he ever did?
I think Aragorn is having a lot of fun with the 'Thorongil's identity' thing.
The way in which he spoke with the staff and showed concern for them, wanting people to respect them and being aware of the dignity of labour was indicative of the new King's nature and emphasised the differneces between him and Denethor.
So much to contemplate and enjoy, Larner. Thanks again.
Author's reply
So glad you appreciate it. Having come from Arnor where there wasn't much in the way of servants and so on, I suspect that Aragorn tends to see servants as employees instead of as fixtures as many who grew up class-conscious might. And I suspect that now that Aragorn is King there is a better chance for those who are common-born to become upwardly mobile if they show intelligence and ability than there has been in Gondor for quite some centuries--or possibly millennia.
And glad so many enjoy the Thorongil recognition moments. As Aragorn told Frodo, he expects to enjoy such moments for some years, probably.
Priceless! The Umbarians think Frodo is a great and powerful sorcerer! Of course they cannot imagine that his power was in his very smallness and innocence.
I liked the clever way in which they all, in their various ways, tried to find out what had happened. And I love the way Aragorn is forcing them to cool their heels for a while. He's really good at diplomacy.
Author's reply
Well, of course the folk from Umbar have no idea what Hobbits can or can't do; but they're going to learn. And of course now that they can mingle a bit they'll do their best to find out what the new order is about and what is known of the lost fleet.
And they KNOW Aragorn is keeping them waiting purposely and that they'd do the same to him were the situation reversed.
Anyway, so glad you appreciate this chapter.
Baggins Babe
· 11 November 2005
· Chapter 23: 23: Circle of Light
Finally I have some time to review. I have always thought the Ring must have been working on Frodo during those years in the Shire, albeit in a sneaky and low-key insidious manner. The fact that he couldn't bring himself to throw it in the fire when Gandalf asked him to was proof that it already had it's claws in deep. Horrible to think how it might have warped this beautiful, innocent character though.
I love the way you depict the relationship between Frodo and Gandalf, and how typical of Frodo to want to protect Sam and others from the evil.
Author's reply
Yes, that moment when he couldn't throw it into the fire showed the Ring was already working its way into Frodo's psyche there in the Shire. That it would have automatically tried to do some things such as cause him to abuse others because that was its nature, that it would try to disrupt his established relationships, and that it would begin looking at those around him to cause problems there all seemed logical. And Gandalf saw it happening and realized his former fears were that much closer to being proven; now he is trying his best to find out how to prove this is (or hopefully isn't) Sauron's Ring.
Glad you appreciate how I have Frodo seeking to protect others early on. Thanks so much for the feedback.
French Pony
· 11 November 2005
· Chapter 25: 25: Honoring Service
I love the running gag with people starting to connect Aragorn and Thorongil. It cracks me up.
I'd write more, but I'm too sleep-deprived at the moment to be anything more specific than happily appreciative of this chapter.
Author's reply
Oh, I know about being sleep deprived--am feeling the same myself after working all night and much of the day as well.
So glad you, too, enjoy seeing people recognize Thorongil in the King. It must have been a source of enjoyment to Aragorn at times. This was an ongoing theme throughout The King's Commission.