Andrea
· 23 October 2006
· Chapter 10: Chapter Ten: On Birthdays
To which Guests must one Present a Gift?
The Brief Answer to that pressing Question is All of Them.
LOL!!! Aunt Dora is wonderful, and her answers are wise indeed!
Well, actually, I share my birthday with my uncle. Last year, when I turned 33, it was his 77. birthday. Funny, isn't it? We should really celebrate our birthday together. That way I would never have to think about a suitable toast ;-)
Author's reply
*grin* I got a little giggle myself when I wrote that part! I do get a kick out of writing Miss Dora!
That is so cool! You're like Frodo and Bilbo--you *should* have combined birthdays! Give out presents and have fireworks!! LOL!!
Bodkin
· 23 October 2006
· Chapter 10: Chapter Ten: On Birthdays
Very wise words from the doyenne of Shire manners. And actually - the idea of giving presents on your birthday is a very sweet one. I thoroughly approve and agree with Miss Dora that the birthday hobbit should not let the Expectation of Receiving overshadow the Giving.
Author's reply
I've always loved that particular hobbity custom. It *is* sweet, and in a way makes more sense than just *getting* presents on your birthday. As Miss Dora writes this I've been trying to figure out the reasons and philosophy of some of the Shire customs--and I think, from the way JRRT describes it, that it is indeed about being grateful for your life.
I've always written my hobbits as taking great delight in giving presents, and even my very young ones get more excited about what they will *give* rather than what they will *get*.
Imhiriel
· 23 September 2006
· Chapter 9: Chapter Nine: On the Giving of Gifts
(This is a review for the 9 chapters that are currently published)
What a wonderful idea! You have exactly nailed the tone of a prim and proper, but all-in-all benign, older lady. The wording - complete with quirky capitalizing - mimicks excellently the style of similar real life Books of Manners, very neatly adapted to Shire society (The emphasis on things to do with food, for example, or how desirable "Predictability" is).
And despite the fun of the story, most of the advice is actually very valid and reasonable, which gives the story an additional layer of depth. There are quite a few people in the real world who should take a leaf out of that book!
Did you have some specific models you consulted while writing the different chapters, apart from the links you mentioned?
Author's reply
Oh thank you! That's *exactly* what I was going for--Miss Dora *is* prim and proper, but, as you said, "all-in-all benign".
I enjoy doing the capitalizing--it's fun to figure out which words she would emphasize. And of course, there are definitely parts that would apply to "Hobbits only". (I feel that in the absence of religion, and given the frequency of meals, food would come to occupy a central place in Shire society. And we know that "respectable" hobbits would never do anything "unpredictable", LOL!)
I'm glad you feel that much of the advice is good. I want Miss Dora to come across as a rather wise and observant old spinster. Of course, it's also somewhat idealized, and I think that Hobbit children are probably a good deal more biddable than human children. (There's a canon basis for that assumption in some of the remarks JRRT makes about them, as well as in Pippin's behavior in the early parts of the Quest.)
No, I've just always been very fond of those sorts of books, so I have sort of an idea in my head. A lot of it is from my fondness for "Miss Manners", who, though modern, has also successfully mimicked that style. But the ones where I've given links, definitely I've used.
Nienor Niniel
· 7 September 2006
· Chapter 9: Chapter Nine: On the Giving of Gifts
Well thought of again!
A little hint of Bilbo's leaving, too (in fact rather two hints), I think.
I like the traditions you came up with for the different parts of the Shire. And the fact that there can't be a thought of a Hobbit travelling anywhere outside it!
Nienor
Author's reply
Miss Dora Names no Names, but you can bet that she often has Specific Relations in mind when she writes!
I thought it likely that the different farthings would have a few different customs. And *why* would a hobbit do something so Unrespectable as Travel Outside the Shire!? (Disregarding those who are infected with Tookishness, of course!)LOL!
Queen Galadriel
· 5 September 2006
· Chapter 9: Chapter Nine: On the Giving of Gifts
Ah, sometimes I think it would be nice if our society was more like the Shire. In the past couple of years I've taken up the custom of giving gifts to my friends who are fellow LOTR-lovers on my birthday (my family thinks I'm nuts, or I'd give to them too) and it's delightful! The different gift-giving customs to be found in various parts of the Shire are very interesting. And how nice that you included Larner's tradition! *grin*
God bless,
Galadriel
Bodkin
· 5 September 2006
· Chapter 9: Chapter Nine: On the Giving of Gifts
A Reputation for Showing Off - wouldn't want one of those! Most unhobbity.
Life among hobbits must have involved receiving so many gifts - it's just as well they also developed the custom of passing on mathoms.
Miss Dora has some more excellent words of wisdom here. I hope her Book had a wide circulation among those Concerned with Correct Behaviour.
Author's reply
Certainly. I think Bilbo's tendency to flamboyance must have made his genteel cousin wince!
I am quite sure that the passing on of mathoms was a direct response to the constant giving of gifts--otherwise, they would have more clutter than they knew what to do with.
I hope it did, too! She seems to have had a Good Deal of Enjoyment in writing it! LOL!
harrowcat
· 4 September 2006
· Chapter 9: Chapter Nine: On the Giving of Gifts
I think that we all like Tolkien's ideas on gift giving at birthdays and I love this extension on it, especially Larner's take on the giving of recipies and yours on twining the tress for newly-weds.
Author's reply
It is so much fun to extrapolate onto what he left for us, adding our own ideas to his! I thought Larner's idea was brilliant! And I'm glad you liked the trees!
Larner
· 4 September 2006
· Chapter 9: Chapter Nine: On the Giving of Gifts
I am, of course, flattered indeed! And am so glad Tolkien's own letters give us such a detailed look at the social activities of Hobbits and the gift-giving.
Wonderful advice as usual from Aunt Dora! I love the dear lady, myself.
Author's reply
Well, after your lovely little tale of Dora's book, and the fact that the idea of the recipes being a courtship gift was just so very darn *hobbity* and perfect--well, I just could not resist! 8-)
She's turned into a very loveable old lass, hasn't she?
French Pony
· 4 September 2006
· Chapter 9: Chapter Nine: On the Giving of Gifts
A lovely and appropriate chapter! Miss Dora's advice is especially well taken, since it was indeed my own birthday yesterday when you posted. The advice given came in extremely handy. I can't write more right now, since I have a guest (see Chapter Seven), but I did want to let you know that I appreciated this.
Author's reply
Happy Belated Birthday! I am very glad the Advice was helpful, LOL! And I hope you enjoy your company!
shirebound
· 4 September 2006
· Chapter 9: Chapter Nine: On the Giving of Gifts
Gifts must be positively flying about the Shire at a constant rate! What fun. :D
Author's reply
That's certainly the impression one gets when reading "A Long Expected Party"--something about how nearly every day was *someone's* birthday, and so nearly every hobbit came in for a share of the gifts?
Lindelea
· 3 September 2006
· Chapter 9: Chapter Nine: On the Giving of Gifts
It is a Most Offensive Insult to Refuse a Gift!
Oh my! O my omyomyomyomy!
The bunnies that are hopping about, dancing with delight...
Author's reply
Did I give you a bunny? Wow! And not even on purpose! *rubs hands with glee*!
Bodkin
· 28 August 2006
· Chapter 8: Chapter Eight: On Being A Guest
Very wise, Miss Dora. A Hobbit who pays Attention to this Guidance will always be a Welcome Guest.
Author's reply
Yes indeed! I am sure much of her advice would apply to Anyone!
Elemmírë
· 23 August 2006
· Chapter 8: Chapter Eight: On Being A Guest
Very apt advice indeed and as always, Miss Dora.
Author's reply
Miss Dora Thanks You! 8-)
Queen Galadriel
· 22 August 2006
· Chapter 8: Chapter Eight: On Being A Guest
Oh, can Miss Dora come and teach my younger siblings how to behave? :) Had to stop my cooking several times tonight just to break up arguments! I love all this advice, and the voice and style are just perfect! More, more! :)
God bless,
Galadriel
Author's reply
Oh, don't worry a bit! Miss Dora still has a lot more advice to go! LOL!
Nesta
· 22 August 2006
· Chapter 8: Chapter Eight: On Being A Guest
This is quite delightful - what a lovely idea for a fic!
Did you have the beginning of 'The Hobbit' in mind when writing this chapter? It strikes me that the Dwarves and Gandalf break every one of Dora's rules and really ought to be whacked with her umbrella for their bad manners. The Dwarves may perhaps be excused as their social background is rather different, but Gandalf, as a frequent visitor to the Shire, ought to have known better!
Author's reply
For both the last chapter and this, much of what I came up with I extrapolated from The Hobbit and the first chapter of LotR.
Yes indeed! The Dwarves and Gandalf serve as excellent examples of how *not* to behave as a guest, LOL! As you say, the Dwarves were probably ignorant of their many social faux pas. Gandalf of course, was a law unto himself, and I think much of the outrageous behavior he condoned was simply part of him testing Bilbo to see if he really was the Burglar that was needed!
It's quite a blessing, isn't it, that Dora did not decide to make a brief Social Call on her Cousin Bilbo while the Dwarves were there!!
I'm glad you are enjoying this--it's a good deal of fun to write!
Larner
· 22 August 2006
· Chapter 8: Chapter Eight: On Being A Guest
Lovely, proper advice indeed, particularly the admonition that arriving late may be considered fashionable but is indeed a sign of vanity and rudeness. Wonderful!
Miss Dora, I salute you!
Author's reply
Yes, Miss Dora is not the sort to be misled by what is "fashionable". Old-fashioned manners are attainable by everybody, and ostentation is to be deplored.
SlightlyTookish
· 22 August 2006
· Chapter 8: Chapter Eight: On Being A Guest
As always, Miss Dora is so wise. I've said it before, but I love her voice and writing style :)
Author's reply
I am so glad that you like Miss Dora; I'm quite fond of her myself! 8-)
French Pony
· 22 August 2006
· Chapter 8: Chapter Eight: On Being A Guest
Helloooo Lobelia!
Miss Dora is certainly right that there is an art to being a good guest. I wonder what she thinks of Ben Franklin's rule, that fish and guests stink after three days. Or maybe Hobbits are like the Georgians in Gone With The Wind, where sometimes relatives would come to visit and. . . just. . . never. . . leave.
But whichever way she does it, Miss Dora definitely does things with British style and elegance. I have to admit, being about as American as they get, that reading about how people don't like to be "knocked up" in the middle of the night made me snicker. Though I understand what Miss Dora means, that phrase means something a bit different over here!
Author's reply
*snerk* Yes, I think Lobelia comes in for her share of Miss Dora's rebukes--even if she does Name No Names, LOL!
I think that it is somewhere in between, there. I'm sure as seldom as hobbits travelled that some visits did last for weeks. I'm also sure there were a goodly share of hobbit freeloaders--thus Miss Dora's advice in the last chapter to give them chores to do!!
I'm very American myself, but I've spent many, many years absorbing British authors and Briticisms, so some of it has sort taken by osmosis, so to speak. And when in doubt, I have someone who will Britpick for me.
harrowcat
· 22 August 2006
· Chapter 8: Chapter Eight: On Being A Guest
Good advice for everone be they hobbit, man, woman, or dwarf.!
Author's reply
Miss Dora Thanks You!
SurgicalSteel
· 22 August 2006
· Chapter 8: Chapter Eight: On Being A Guest
*squirms*
Couldn't she have simply said 'yes' to 'can one avoid making visits or staying with certain persons'?
Anther lovely chapter!
Author's reply
*giggle* She's a Hobbit! They have--er, different standards, shall we say? LOL!
And thanks SS! I'm glad you are enjoying!
shirebound
· 22 August 2006
· Chapter 8: Chapter Eight: On Being A Guest
Only extend a stay at one’s Host’s Urging. And one should be very Sure that the Urging is truly meant!
I love that. And I love Aunt Dora. And this etiquette manual!
Author's reply
I'm so glad you are loving it. I'm having ever so much fun with it! You've no idea how freeing it is to write fic that has no plot whatsoever! *grin*
harrowcat
· 22 August 2006
· Chapter 7: Chapter Seven: On the Receiving of Guests
For some reason this chapter made me personally rather uncomfortable, especially the last paragraph. Perhaps because I empathise with Bilbo being rather a solitary soul. Great chapter.
Author's reply
Yes, Bilbo *was* a rather solitary hobbit, even more so than Frodo, and quite different from most hobbits even before his Adventure. Yet he, too, valued and prided himself on his Hospitality. Actually almost everything in this chapter was extrapolated from his behavior in the first chapter of The Hobbit, in the way that he greeted his unexpected Guests, and in his musings to himself (such as knowing his duty and doing without, when it came to food).
Much of the rest had to do with how the guests were recieved in the beginning of LotR. Again, most of it having to do with Bilbo's own behavior.
He did, very much value his peace and quiet. But he was hobbit enough to also value hospitality as well. And there were times near the end of his life in the Shire, when he also valued making quite a stir, LOL!
Nienor Niniel
· 20 August 2006
· Chapter 7: Chapter Seven: On the Receiving of Guests
Ah, beautiful! Right down to the "restorative Spirits"! And we finally know that hiding from the S-B's was perfectly legitimate.
All the best, Nienor
Author's reply
I think that Dora, knowing the S.-B.s, had them *specifically* in mind when she wrote that! LOL!
Grey Wonderer
· 20 August 2006
· Chapter 7: Chapter Seven: On the Receiving of Guests
Read all of these at one go and was running short of time so I am leaving one review here for the present. I want Dora to come by and organize my house and set everyone straight on the rules of proper behavior! This is wonderful and she really is writing reams of good advice. Your Dora is a gem and I hope she has more to say and many more topics.
Author's reply
Oh! *giggle* That's a lot to take in in one gulp, GW!
Yes--I can just see Miss Dora taking over and laying down the law! She still has a *lot* more to say!
Elemmírë
· 19 August 2006
· Chapter 7: Chapter Seven: On the Receiving of Guests
Another wonderful chapter, Dreamflower!
It is most Unkind to keep Guests standing on the Doorstep.
LOL! In my stories, Bilbo tends to unintentionally leave Dora standing on the doorstep quite often.
I bet Bilbo and Frodo were 'Not Home' quite a lot when the Sackville-Bagginses were around. Speaking of, I wonder if Lobelia ever took the time to read Miss Dora's book? She could certainly have benefited from it. :D (it might be interesting to see her reaction and take on things when Miss Dora gets 'published'.
Author's reply
And I am quite sure Dora was aware of that! But she would be too proper to keep banging on the door like Lobelia!
I would bet that Lobelia probably turned her nose up at it, and perhaps had some snarky words about it at the time. And then she would have probably gotten a copy and kept it secret, and looked through it to find all the hidden insults, LOL!