Concerning Sam by Kara's Aunty
Antane · 9 October 2008 · Chapter 4: A Merry encounter
It makes perfect sense that Sam would have a touch of PTSD as well and that it would come out at a time when he wasn't distracted by taking care of Frodo's. Darn that hobbit "fear to say too much" that plague them both. I hope Sam will overcome that as I hope Frodo did when he went West. No way am I going to miss the next chapter! Namarie, God bless, Antane :)
Agape4Gondor · 8 October 2008 · Chapter 7: An unexpected visitor
A good chapter. Answered a few questions. I did have to laugh at the beginning though... 'Two weeks earlier' reminded me of a Seinfeld episode I just watched.... One wee quibble - the Elves, I think, would not have used Rivendell for Imladris.... Good chapter.
Author's reply
Hello again! I don't watch Seinfeld, so don't quite get the reference, but I'm glad nonetheless it tickled your funny bone! Writing the brothers was fun and a wee bit of humour was needed, I think.... Rivendell. Absolutely no arguement there. So why didn't I change it if I agree? I have actually finished this story and am posting 2 chapters an evening to SoA, but I 'clean' each chapter before posting it here so that it's the 'best' it can be. When I'm satisfied, I follow the usual procedure of adding the chapter on to the site, reading through it again then adding it to the actual story and finally previewing before I publish. But whenever I press the Preview button, I find out that the Javascript which 'worked hard to clean the chapter' has actually rearranged some of the words/paragraphs! Every time I re-edit when this happens, and then preview again, the original error is fixed, but Javascript has kindly given me a new ons in its place!! GRRR! I have to read through each chapter 5 or 6 times before I post it to make sure its in the correct order before I finally publish. Frustrating beyond belief because what should only take 30 mins is dragging out to two hours each time I post. So last night, I did spot the Rivendell reference - after the 5th time reading, previewing, re-editing and generally being sick of the sight of my own writing and I just thought 'stuff it, it's staying!" Not v. professional, I know. But it was either that or pull my hair out and you know what happened to Sam when he did that.... Glad you're reading, liking and reviewing. It makes my day when you do! Maureen
Agape4Gondor · 8 October 2008 · Chapter 6: The Trials of Meriadoc Brandybuck (begin)
I too cringed at the thought of the 'forced' feeding... but I had a feeling that was going to be your 'reason' for having it done that way. I can accept it, yet I did cringe. Also, I was a tad disturbed that Merry would have shared so much with the doctor... it just doesn't ring quite 'safe' even tho the Travelers are returned and the Ring is destroyed... just felt odd. However, Sam's state and Merry's horror at finding him thus made those things seem small compared to the rest of it. I enjoyed this chapter (if one can say one enjoyed poor Sam suffering so) and will continue to read.
Author's reply
Hello Agape4Gondor, Thank you again for your review (every single chapter so far - wow) I should have thought to put a medical disclaimer on Chapter 5 perhaps, I did actually put the 'forced' liquids in to state the (sometimes dangerous) naivete of Hobbits - especially the older generation who would be stuck in their ways - but I just assumed that people reading it would know NEVER to do such a foolish thing, given our society's medical knowledge. However, I'll refer to a disclaimer in this evening's chapter and that should cover it. I don't trust myself yet to amend a published chapter in case I delete it! Regarding what Merry told the healer. I see your point, but I felt it was important to Sam's healer that he should have a general idea of what the root cause of his illness may be in order to best evaluate any treatment he may give. Merry did only give him the basic details and as the Ring was already destroyed, I deemed there to be no danger of such a confidence to a 'medical professional'. I worked on the assumption that healers take some sort of Hippocratic Oath (officially or otherwise) and that any info shared with them regarding patients health would be confidential - as it is with us. I hope that these explanations ease your mind somewhat. I know how you feel though - if I spot something that doesn't feel quite right, I'd say something too!! Anyway, I'm really glad that you enjoyed it despite everything and I hope that future chapters keep you entertained just as much :) Take care, Maureen.
Celeritas · 8 October 2008 · Chapter 7: An unexpected visitor
Well, that answers Merry's questions/worries about everyone who can help getting left behind. Go Radagast! (And go Gandalf for his amazing foreseeing skillz.) Glad to know that help is arriving in a timely fashion. Once this nightmare delirium is over there's going to be a ginormous Sam Appreciation Club Intervention in the Frogmorton Inn... which will doubtless please the proprietess, since because he's a stubborn Gamgee I doubt it'll take less than a day! I liked the sidenote on athelas--especially how it becomes less effective when self-administered. Somehow I'm not surprised.
SurgicalSteel · 8 October 2008 · Chapter 6: The Trials of Meriadoc Brandybuck (begin)
So far, I'm thinking this an interesting concept, and I'm overall enjoying this. I have a medical quibble, though, and it's with the giving fluids to an unconscious person and either hoping they'll swallow (which they almost certainly won't) or stroking their throat to make them swallow. Stroking the throat to make them swallow just doesn't work, and in fact increases the chance of whatever fluid you've given them going into their trachea rather than their esophagus. There are ways of getting fluid into an unconscious person even without IVs, but this isn't one of them, I'm afraid. I do hope you continue the story, because it's enjoyable, but this is a bit of a pet peeve of mine.
Author's reply
Hello Surgical Stell, nice to have you on board as a reader (and reviewer). I'm glad you're enjoying the storyt, it's been a lot of fun writing this!. I know exactly what you mean with the fluid intake, but bear in mind that Hobbits do not posses the medical know how or technology we do today. There are no needles, 0.9% Saline infusions or IMEDs to administer intravenous fluids in ME. And even though in the post-Quest years they would have had slightly more contact with Elves & Men, Hobbits were still a rather reclusive race and generally shied away from 'foreign' influences. I used artistic licence for this chapter and imagined what simple folk like Hobbits may do in such a situation in an era set many thousands of years before our own scientific advancement. Healer Tubbit is also an older Hobbit and would have preferred the use of his own tried and tested methods, rational or otherwise to you and me. With our knowledge, we would never dream of doing something so dangerous, but unless someone's invented nasogastric tubes and litmus paper in Sam's time, stroking the throat (however it makes us cringe - and believe me, as a trained nurse I cringed writing it) will have to do. I am really pleased though that you reviewed and especially that you picked up on that point, because it's always made me uneasy and I fell better for having explained my reasons behind it. I hope I haven't offended you;and that you enjoy the rest of the story. M :)
Celeritas · 8 October 2008 · Chapter 6: The Trials of Meriadoc Brandybuck (begin)
Ooh, it's cameo time! How did the twins know? Because they're awesome, that's why. :-P (Aside from that I'm not sure. Maybe some Osanwe with their sister?) The chunks o' hair stuff was... ouch. Pretty much my entire reaction to the first bit of everything. The idiom about potatoes was stellar. I love hobbit idiom. Finally, since Sam's delirious anyway I wonder if Merry's good enough at imitating Frodo's voice to fool him into wellness. "No, Sam, you haven't failed me; stop being such a [insert Gaffer's derogatory term here]." Hehe!
Author's reply
Celeritas, you are so funny - 'insert Gaffer's derogatory term here' - just brilliant! Glad you liked the roasting mashed potatoes idiom, I made that up, but it's so Sam. I'm about 20 mins away from posting the next chapter (if this Javascript doesn't rearrange the words of its own volition again), so stay tuned. 'insert Gaffer's derogatory term' - laughing my head off! Maureen
Celeritas · 8 October 2008 · Chapter 5: A Trip to Mordor?
A deviation from canon? Perhaps. But since it's never been done before it's actually quite enlightening. I really did like the AU dream, because whenever I come across one of those "Sam is the REAL hero!" tracts I always like to think of what would have happened if Sam had gone into Mordor on his own. (The final point being, of course, that both Frodo and Sam were equally necessary in getting the job done.) There are four reasons that this potential deviation from canon works. The first one I've already said--it's original. 2. The possibility is not made anathema anywhere in published canon or semicanon or even by logically extrapolating Tolkien's opinion on it based on his ideology--it's just fans' perceptions. Challenging fans' perceptions = very good. 3. It's characteristic of Sam that something like this would take a while to manifest itself. If there's a problem that's of little or no consequence, he just brushes it off and keeps on doing what he's doing--but in this case it's only been allowed to fester. and 4. You can read a lot into this and why it's happening. Residual Ringbearer Syndrome, guilt (my least favorite of all motivators, but there you have it), plain old missing Frodo, or any combination of the above and more besides. I personally favor the idea that missing Frodo has turned into identifying with him (certainly aided by Ringbearing!) has turned into having the same issues he had, over time. Of course, you may end up finally going in and explaining the reason yourself, but for now at least it's ambiguous enough that a reader can justify it according to his or her own interpretations. And nice way to drag out last chapter's cliffhanger a little bit longer! XD
Celeritas · 8 October 2008 · Chapter 4: A Merry encounter
Yay for Merry figuring it out!!! Even if it weren't for the cliffie at the end of the chapter there would be no way for Sam to clam up about it now. Merry blinked. “Well, that’s what I said, But she believes you to be a fully respectable Hobbit and won’t hear of me unduly influencing the Mayor into behaving like a drunken Bree-lander.” Merry paused. “Odd, though, she never warns me to behave myself around Pippin, and he’s the Thain.” “And a lost cause?” suggested Sam. The above made me sporfle. Very much. I didn't even notice the POV changes--and there's absolutely nothing wrong with 3rd Person Omniscient anyway.
Dreamflower · 8 October 2008 · Chapter 5: A Trip to Mordor?
Grrr...that nasty Ring! Poor Sam, having to contend with it NOW, after he think's all is behind him. I wonder what set it off? But I don't think It will be any match for him in the long run...
Dreamflower · 8 October 2008 · Chapter 4: A Merry encounter
On you've done a wonderful job with Merry! Teasing the cook like that was amusing, but it didn't take his focus off his friend. Trust Merry to tumble very quickly to what's wrong with Sam. I had no problem with the POV switch. I like multiple POVs in stories--I like seeing what different characters are thinking. It's not necessarily a flaw to shift POVs, as long as you don't do it in the middle of a sentence, LOL!
Agape4Gondor · 7 October 2008 · Chapter 5: A Trip to Mordor?
The italics were fine. I thought the premise was fine too - I liked the fact that Sam dreamt he held the Ring for many days. It took a moment to understand, but it still worked. I also liked the fact that, whether or not it's true, Sam still feels the Ring trying to control him. Nice job. Though I should say, Poor Sam!
Agape4Gondor · 7 October 2008 · Chapter 4: A Merry encounter
The chapter was great. POV's were handled well, I thought. I had no trouble with them. And it was a good chapter too - though I seriously wanted to go out and find some good beef and mashed potatoes... sounded succulent!
Agape4Gondor · 7 October 2008 · Chapter 3: A Royal dilemma
I loved what you wrote about the strength of the Ring whilst Sam wore it, but also loved Arwen's wisdom - that Sam willingly gave It up. Very good chapter! And a journey - hooray! Hooray!
Agape4Gondor · 7 October 2008 · Chapter 2: Long lie-ins and Big Breakfasts
I really shouldn't laugh - but I certainly know what you mean about the Muse pointing her spear at you until you continue writing. Delightful chapter... going on for more! I think you did really well with this!
Dreamflower · 7 October 2008 · Chapter 3: A Royal dilemma
I love this reasoning behind the timing of Aragorn's visit to Arnor! I also loved Arwen's insight into Sam's character. “Samwise gave up the Ring of his own free will, Melamin. Do you know how strong someone must be to do such a thing? Even when the evil of the Ring was resting such a feat would have been almost impossible. What he did shows his great strength of character and proves that he has mastery of his own will.” Other than Bilbo, he's the only one who gave up the Ring of his own free will, and even Bilbo needed help to do so and the Ring was still at least partially "asleep"--while Sam did it on his own, in the very heart of the Ring's power. "Mastery of his own will"? I would say so!
Dreamflower · 7 October 2008 · Chapter 2: Long lie-ins and Big Breakfasts
Poor Sam! I am sure it has to upset him to think he can't eat a proper hobbit breakfast! And Merry probably will be worried about him if he shows up! I am really enjoying this--I recced it at my LJ! Oh, and by the way "Farlibar" is an excellent hobbit name!
Linda Hoyland · 7 October 2008 · Chapter 1: The Seeing Stone
Your Aragorn is very wise to limit his use of the palantir. Welcome to SOA!
Linda Hoyland · 7 October 2008 · Chapter 3: A Royal dilemma
This is a very enjoyable story so far. I like your Aragorn with his friendliness to his guards and concern for Sam.
cookiefleck · 7 October 2008 · Chapter 1: The Seeing Stone
Nice to see you that you are posting the story here. I very much enjoyed it. :o)
Antane · 6 October 2008 · Chapter 3: A Royal dilemma
Arwen is very wise, but Aragorn's fears could be justified as we all know hobbits 'fear to say too much'. I love this tale as you are exploring some valid themes of how the Ring may have affected Sam. Arwen is right in what a feat of will it took for Sam to give up the Ring and so quickly and when it was growing more powerful all the time and it was because his love was so strong for Frodo. Baggins Babe, another author here, says the Ring ran into a brick wall when it tried to corrupt Sam, that he wasn't going to take any orders "from a jumped-up piece of jewelry!" Dear Sam! If the Ring magnified what is already in someone, it did so to its own doom with Sam because it would have magnified Sam's love for Frodo. You bring up many valid points here so I don't think you need fear about violating canon. The devastation Sam felt at losing Frodo at the Grey Havens, half of his heart and soul, just as Rosie was the other half; the fact that Frodo held on after the Fire for the sake of Sam who would followed him anywhere, including into death, are very real. I love the way you said Aragorn had "to plead with their souls". I'm sure Sam pleaded with Frodo also and Frodo gave in because of that. This is a marvelous chapter and I am so glad you are here! Namarie, God bless, Antane :)
Celeritas · 6 October 2008 · Chapter 3: A Royal dilemma
Your usage of "It's" is really interesting--certainly your defense of it justifies its (no pun intended) presence. I'm tending to side somewhere in the middle of this debate between Aragorn and Arwen. Yes, Sam should come to the realization that he needs to talk, in time, but he's also as stubborn as they come and (despite all his protestations to the contrary) he does have a fair bit of pride when it comes to such matters. Of course, if Aragorn had not seen all of this he wouldn't be worrying so--which just goes to show how much of a double-edged sword the Palantir can be. I loved the word choice on Rose not seeing Sam "wilt." Such an apt term for a gardener!
Celeritas · 6 October 2008 · Chapter 2: Long lie-ins and Big Breakfasts
I found most interesting in this chapter the little hints at how other hobbits look at the rather famous Samwise--from young Farlibar's (interesting name, that. Sounds hobbitty, but I can't quite place the family) expectantly looking at his cooking to the "unreasonable public figures" talk. Evidently that fellow hasn't heard of Sam's origins yet! Re: the other review and your appreciated extensive replies--the nightshirt wasn't at all too Frodo-ish. I was more or less just gloating that I'd caught the reference; since we have almost no evidence as to how Sam felt after the Grey Havens anything--especially things that make the reader think, which that certainly did--would work. If residual Ring-longing wasn't the trouble, it can still be interpreted as some sort of semi-perceived sympathy pangs (I'd like to think that Frodo would be completely healed at this point, but Sam doesn't know that and won't know for sure until he goes there himself). With newer writers, if they do an expected amount of research (you certainly have and more besides!), I (and I suspect just about everyone else on this site) am willing to look over any perceived glitches on your part--which I haven't found, although if I unbottled my cantankerous alter ego she probably would because she finds bones to pick with everything, including my own stuff--in favor of the fresh perspective that a new author always brings. With "alright," I wasn't criticizing the word choice; only the spelling. The two words "all right," signifying the same thing, have been around far longer. I'm a bit of a prescriptivist, which is the only reason I brought the whole thing up. I'm actually now digging through my copy to see if Tolkien had any of the hobbits use it, but it hardly matters. Don't be daunted by U.S. usage if you have an idea for more U.S.-type fan fiction--I'm sure there are sites in other fandoms as supportive as this one that would be more than willing to help. Back when Harry Potter fan fiction was at its peak there were a number of betas called "Britpickers" who would go through Americans' work and recommend changes based on UK usage; I'm sure that with little effort you could find a SW geek to do something similar. I did see that this has already been posted elsewhere, but I think I'd rather stay on this site because I've found that good things come to those who wait! And so I await more...
Author's reply
Ah Celeritas! I love your descripive reviews! I know you weren't criticising with 'alright' - no problems there (or anywhere). I was laughing at the bit where you said you were 'gloating' that you'd caught the nightshirt reference. I think subconciously I put it in as a reference to troubles to come and not necessarily that he desired it, but I'd forgotten that after I wrote it; just knew there was a reason so I left it as it was and if it made you feel that you'd noticed something juicy - excellent! All of your lovely comments have made me happy that you are finding some pleasure in this story, especially the 'good things come to those who wait' one. I could continue here for the rest of the night, but I just got in from work (It's now 18:55 GMT) and I've several other reviews to reply to (including another one of yours - God bless you), not to mention another chapter (or two) to post, so I'll speak to you later. Byee :) Maureen.
Celeritas · 6 October 2008 · Chapter 1: The Seeing Stone
Yay! Fellow new author! ^_^ I'm really liking this so far; one of my pet interests in fandom is that fan fiction that fills a niche--that talks about something no one else has. And while (I think) the Visit to Annuminas has been covered, it's never been looked at from quite this perspective. Out of all the Travellers, the one whose scars people write about the least is Sam. It would be unhealthy to forget to live his own life if he was so engrossed in those of others. True that! I was most intrigued this chapter by the description of Sam's nightmare, particularly the part where he settled down, clutching his nightshirt. I don't know if this was intentional or not, but taken in conjunction with your summary mentioning him still being affected by the Ring, I had to raise my eyebrows at this. I'll also be interested in seeing how you take the Sea-longing into account--the original last lines of the book rival the published ones in beauty and thought-inducing shivers. Hurrah also for the UK English--despite being American, I set my spellcheck to UK when writing hobbit fic--though if I may have one niggle, "alright" as one word didn't enter the dictionary until the 1990's. Your book compliance is fine, especially since you've demonstrated yourself to be aware of those things you artistically license to your purpose. ^_^ Well, this review is dragging on interminably, so I'll just cut it off by saying how much I'm enjoying this fic so far and hope you'll update soon!
Author's reply
Hello Celeritas, WOW, what a great review! Thank you very much! So you're a new author here too, eh? Have you posted yet? I'll have a wee look once I'm finished here... I'm so new it's scary. I only posted last night and this is the 1st LOTR story I've done (and the 1st multi-chaptered, which was an accident as this was supposed to be one chapter long, finito!). The story is complete and has been posted elsewhere, but SoA is a distinguished site with many dedicated Tolkien fans so I'm a bit nervous at the thought of tripping up and landing flat on my face. Still, you can't fly if you don't try, eh? Sam and his nightshirt... Yeah. It seemed such a clever thing to put in at the time... I should have changed that perhaps, too Frodo-esque I think. It should still work out okay though, just gives a general hint at the overall trouble he's in for (I'm thinking out loud as I type, so ignore me if I ramble on indiscriminately). I've always wanted to read a story which specifically addressed the effects of the Ring on Sam, as well as his resultant Sea-longing and the way that may have influenced his family life. But I could never find such a story, so I decided to try and write it myself. I'm not a very experienced writer and my knowledge of ME isn't as broad as others, but I've worked with what I've got (the LOTR books and some good Tolkien websites) and hope that I've not made any glaring mistakes... Well, the entire story is finished and the Sea-longing was one of the main details I wanted to explore, so that's all done and dusted and waiting for you to read.... I'm Scottish, so UK English is all I know. I'd like to do a Star Wars fic at some point, but am daunted by the thought of tackling US vernacular and US English, so I might just leave that to my American cousins. Plus, I'm rubbish at all that technical stuff (X-Wings, Permacrete, flying duels - gulp). Anyway, I digress. If I see any further entries of 'alright', I'll change them to 'of course' or something similar. That way, when you come across 'of course' you can smile and know I was thinking of you! Your review did not drag on interminably (I relished every word), but I fear this reply might, so I'll pop off now. I'm posting another two chapters this evening (after I tweak them), so I hope you have an opportunity to read them. Bye! Maureen.
Larner · 6 October 2008 · Chapter 1: The Seeing Stone
How wonderful to see this posted here! Very nice introduction to your work!
Author's reply
Hi Larner, you are the best! I'm beyond thrilled that you reviewed - but don't worry, I don't expect this for every chapter when you've done so once already. I applied to post here three weeks ago, but only got the okay last night because they're doing technical stuff on the site or some such thing, so I was happy to finally be able to post on a J.R.R. Tolkien-only orientated site. I'm tweaking each chapter as I put it up here to (hopefully) erase any errors, but will need to wait and see how much success I meet with (I'm fairly sweating at the thought of trying to clean up my punctuation!). Still, these things are sent to try... I'm off now to tweak the next 2 chapters, so take care of yourself and all the best!! Maureen.
Agape4Gondor · 5 October 2008 · Chapter 1: The Seeing Stone
Excellent beginning. I'm glad you put in the little disclaimer about the Palantir - it's not a big thing, but it can take one away from the tale. With the disclaimer, I'll be able to read without lightly gnashing my teeth. As I said, excellent beginning. Can't wait for the next installment.
Author's reply
Hello Agape4Gondor! Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to review, I'm a happy woman because of it! I know what you mean about the disclaimer bit - if I read something that is a bit OOC but has been 'advertised' as canon, it can ruin it for me (to an extent). I didn't actually realise the mistake with the Palantír in the first chapter until someone pointed it out to me (though in the nicest possible way) so even I'm not as infallible as I'd like to think! But now that I'm posting on the wonderful SoA site, I have a chance to try and address some of the errors I made the first time. Of course, I'm sure I'll still let something slip through by accident - I'm not as knowledgeable in Middle Earth as many people, but thank goodness for the books I do have & the Internet. I do love Sam and I had an unbelievable urge to write this story or combust, so I thought it might be easier to write and research as I went along. Combusting is too messy a business. You won't have to wait for the next instalment - I'm so happy with the lovely reviews that I'm posting 2 chapters this evening (GMT - it's 18:32 here just now). Hope I hear from you again! Maureen.