perelleth
· 15 February 2010
· Chapter 9999: Epilogue
At last!
Hehehhe. Now I would love to hear the exchange of arguments between the author and the editors across the years!!! And the "affectionate Aprtner's" private opinion of the tome!
This was a wonderful exercise in meta, Clodia, unveiling such a world of possiblities! But this kind of whimsical chronicling really fits in what might be the pastimes of these inmmortals as the ages rolled by! thank you very much for the effort, I greatly enjoyed the tale and the joke!
Author's reply
Well, thank you so much for all your support! It's really been wonderful to have your feedback all the way -- every comment made my day, and I'm so glad you shared the joke! :'D
Redheredh
· 11 February 2010
· Chapter 9999: Epilogue
A very edifying epilogue. ;) The concluding statement was indeed the summarized message of Alatriel's journal.
However - as much as I love E&M and respect their wisdom, regarding note 1 - "...for ere the fall of Nargothrond or Gondolin I passed over the mountains..." This seems to say Galadriel and Celeborn spent the better part of the First Age in Eriador, not Doriath. When you look at it, their history in that realm is at variance as much as what happened in Eregion. So I suppose, one could take both, either, or neither. Personally, I take both. Which sorta puts me at a bit of difference with note 3 and 5 as well. ];}
Although *you* might not think so, I loved this tale! :D And now, I am off to give you unwarranted grief about the accompanying Tale!
Thank you for sharing it!
Author's reply
//regarding note 1...//
Hm, well, I know there is a touch of LOTR vs Silm ambiguity there (unless I'm mistaking the source); but it's only one statement from Galadriel and my general policy is to take Silm as absolute canon, supplemented where appropriate (or convenient) by *non-conflicting* material from the UT etc. The Silm has nothing to say about Galadriel's whereabouts at the time of or directly after Doriath's fall, although C. Tolkien presumes in the UT that she and Celeborn were there and I certainly go along with that; and you can of course argue over what she did next, but my personal pseudo-canon would send her to Sirion and then over into Eriador post-War of Wrath. After that I have no comments; the range of options for how events played out in Eriador gives me serious headaches and at the moment I have no intention of committing to any of them. (Although in any case, both Nargothrond and Gondolin fell pretty late in the First Age -- so the footnotes need not actually be incorrect, as long as you, uh, disconnect slightly from the version of canon they're actually referring to. ;)) There is also one way that I might wriggle out of the statement in LOTR, if I chose -- you've read the Treasury entry now: obviously Galadriel is still self-mythologising. :D
Anyway, thank you so much for all your kind and detailed comments! Each and every one has made my day! :DDD
Redheredh
· 8 February 2010
· Chapter 5: Arrival in Middle-earth
In a reply, to your question...
I know I have been harping about geography, and I apologize for that. I tend to think and write in a realistic style, which is why it matters to me.
In this chapter, you described the landscape (and Menegroth) beautifully. For me, the chronology was the dodgy part. Few people even knew of the Narog river caverns until Finrod occupied them. And Alatriel's party crossed the river at the probable battleground where Cirdan was beaten back. It was likely infested with straggler orcs and scavenging wolves. Not at all a safe route to take. If I were their guide, I would have been happier following the Andram to the Gates of the Sirion.
See, mere quibbles. Not relevant to the point of this particular story.
Ah, so this was the punchline: Melian, herself! *G* I liked the the joke so much I definitely want it to go on! Who wouldn't? :D
Author's reply
Ah, I see what you mean. Well, you're right, of course -- if this was meant to have been an actual journey taken by a couple of naive visitors from Aman, it's probably not the best route to have taken; and certainly it requires a rather high level of geographical knowledge, especially if the author is taken to be a Silvan of the Third Age. But actually the "anonymous author" is, uh, the sort of person who would have made it their business to have that sort of knowledge at the time (the Narog river caverns especially -- Thingol knew of them, after all, to recommend them to Finrod, and if messengers had passed fairly regularly between the Falathrim and Doriath prior to Morgoth's return, I don't see why they shouldn't have stumbled across the caves before) and also wouldn't have cared all that much about stray orcs and wolves at this point. Evidently it didn't occur to them that Alatariel's party would have cared either. (Well, Alatariel's Noldor kin have made such a good start at civilising Beleriand, after all...)
Thank you for clarifying, anyway! I'm always interested in this sort of detail; there's just so much to get wrong with every story, especially one that covers a good deal of ground. ;)
curiouswombat
· 8 February 2010
· Chapter 5: Arrival in Middle-earth
How shall I describe the tumult within my breast on finding another chapter of this fantastical account so studiously annotated by the erudite Erestor and Melinna?
Well Yay! might be a good start....
Author's reply
It's the sort of language that rubs off, isn't it? Thank you for commenting, as always! You make me a happy person. :D
perelleth
· 8 February 2010
· Chapter 5: Arrival in Middle-earth
Ok, I'm now more curious than ever about the promised one-shot of Beleriand Treasury about this tale, because I am now fantasizing that this was, after all,w ritten by the lady herself in plain mockery or somewhat piqued with or by someone! (Or was it celebrìan?) :-) I want to know the truth!!!!!!
This said, I find this hilarious beyond believable, in the dry-humour subtle style that works best for me. All comments about Melian are a hoot, ended with the Maia herself being so sweet "and wishes to educate us in the wisdom of the Valar. There can be little doubt that she knows much we should learn.” that really killed me. Two powerful ladies competing? (And Beleg's circumspect way about Elwë's camp? Hilarious)
Then the parting shots about Cirdan's poor and uneducated people...and her enthusiasm at the glorious carrer she's about to undertake beside her affectionate Partner! i'm with Redheredh here, i cnanot read that without snorting.
Erestor and Melinna are appropriately dry here, notes 2 5 and 8 chuckle- inducing to the point of choking, and the last one the killer, of course.
And yet, on the serious side, I had to shake my head recognizing the source in this: no thought to the most expeditious usage of their copious resources; this heedlessness is no doubt considerably exacerbated by the want of civilization. Had they excitements to diligence, and improvements in agriculture, then these plains, instead of having a few wild deer scattered thinly over them, would be alive with cattle; and a wealth of golden corn would cover the hillsides, recalling the riches of Valinor. O that the plans of myself and my affectionate Partner for evangelizing and civilizing this barbarous land may be met with success Indeed. Civilize.
Well, I'm looking forward to the resolution of this joke and the underlying tale. I'm enjoying this beyond words.
Author's reply
The truth will be revealed very shortly, I promise! Hopefully it'll be worth the wait. ;) In any case, SO glad you enjoyed this, and especially Melian's role -- that final line was certainly meant to provide the kick to the whole tale. Thank you so much for all your lovely comments! It means a lot to me that you've enjoyed this tale, and that you've taken the trouble to review at such length. :D
Redheredh
· 7 February 2010
· Chapter 5: Arrival in Middle-earth
I was absolutely wheezing with laughter at the introductory summary.
I swear Alatariel is jealous of this one Melian. Quite piqued. ;D
As for being surprised to have to cross a wilderness. Really? Lost potential from lack of industry? Really?! I guess I must blame the imperialist literary source for that bit.
The geography was once again anachronistic, but still referentially most interesting.
"my affectionate Partner" *G* I still can't pass that without snarfing.
But, the encounter with Beleg was excellent! That was loads of fun!
And just what were they doing all that time with Cirdan, supposedly learning the language, and not learning anything of the facts about Elwe, Melian, and Menegroth? Hmmm? ;D Maybe they concentrated on sexual... eh,social... customs out of collateral interest. Just like modern missionaries and most tourists...
Oh dear, did Melian say 'kinswoman'? Just who is intending to teach a lesson here? ;)
Great Chapter! And very happy that there is obviously more to come!
Author's reply
I'm so glad you enjoyed this chapter! You can blame the source literature for Alatariel's disapproval of the wilderness -- well, partly: it seemed reasonable to me that Valinor might have been (at least perceived to be, via that descriptions of the Exiles) farmed somewhat more intensively than Beleriand, certainly Beleriand after Morgoth's return. I usually prefer not to bother with working out where everyone got their food from, or how the economy worked: that level of realism is reserved for RL work. But I do discriminate about the details I borrow from Mrs Jeffreys -- it would be unfair to judge her Journal from this one, incidentally; in her case, the missionaries had been explicitly invited to Madagascar by the local prince in order to teach children how to read and write.
I am interested to know how the geography was anachronistic, though? there are shaky details, of course (I suppose you might argue that Amon Rudh should have been occupied at this point, or perhaps that the chronology is a bit dodgy) but I was trying to be as accurate as possible with the actual geography.
Also, I have a confession -- and given the option, I would use the Small Text of Embarrassment -- which is that I'd planned to wrap up this story in the next chapter with a brief epilogue and a relevant one-shot. Ummmm. The anonymous author possibly feels that their point has been sufficiently made? We'll see. ;)
Thank so much for reading and for your kind review, as ever!
Aiwen
· 4 February 2010
· Chapter 4: The Sack of Alqualondë
This story is really neat, especially the comments. The story itself... makes me badly want to see the anonymous author face Lady Galadriel's reaction. I suspect she might be torn between laughter and horror.
Author's reply
I'm so glad you like this piece! :D There may be a chance to see Galadriel's reaction; but that's another story... Thank you so much for reading and reviewing, anyway.
Redheredh
· 1 February 2010
· Chapter 4: The Sack of Alqualondë
With this chapter, I think the author of the journal has arrived at the first point he really wished to make. In that I mean, Galadriel's role does not dimminish the tragedy itself, and she is exemplified in her personal assessment of it. As self-possessed as her goals are, anyway.
"my affectionate Partner" *snork*
Interesting that the Lady has to turn extensively to other people's words on this occassion, though. Good for this reader that geography is a moot issue. Or that alternative history seemes to say that C&G actually departed before the Darkness. 'Cause where's the drama in that. ;)
Now,I just hafta ponder over the identity of the author of the journal. Since this is during the Watchful Peace post-Amroth, it can be none of the Fellowship. And must be someone well-read in Elven classics, which few men of this post-Numeanor period would be. If so admiring, likely aquaintanced in some fashion with the Lady. Therefore, one who would know it would stir up her ire to expound an apocryphal story of alternate history. And, wise enough not to own up to it by hiding behind the 'ignorance' of an Umanyar (Moriquendi). So, the key question is: who would get a big kick out of such an elaborate joke? I can think of one or two noble elves with the chutzpah.
Else, I am just off on the wrong trail entirely, and its a modern-day writer fallen into Middle-earth...
I am sooo enjoying this story!
Author's reply
I am so glad you're enjoying the story! And I say that every time, but only because it's true. Your reviews make me terribly happy. :D
It's certainly true to say that the Journal's author wanted to comment on the awfulness of the sack of Alqualonde by Feanor et al, and that Galadriel's role (whatever that might have been) doesn't diminish it at all. This story is in general not at all serious, of course, but what happened at Alqualonde is a very serious episode -- the "anonymous author" has some experience of this sort of Noldorin behaviour -- and needed to be taken seriously. (That said, of course, the way is now clear for the Journal's punchline in the next chapter. :D)
Turning to other people's words, well, the missionary's journal I'm mimicking was sadly lacking in action scenes and it did seem like the perfect opportunity to use the Lay of the Children of Hurin, which I hadn't touched at all before this story. ;) As for departing before the Darkness, both of the UT versions have Galadriel and Teleporno fighting at Alqualonde, although for all I know there may be half a dozen other versions elsewhere that have her safely away before that. *shrug* You know how it is.
I... will not comment on your very interesting speculations, except to say that your characterisation of this as an elaborate joke is absolutely spot on. Maybe I could point out the origins of most of "Alatariel's" citations? And suggest a close reading of the preface and editors' foreword? :'D
Thank you, as ever, for reading and commenting!
perelleth
· 1 February 2010
· Chapter 4: The Sack of Alqualondë
My one consolation – and it is but slight – is that I saw neither my father nor my brothers anywhere during the fighting. I can only hope that they took no part in this most terrible of Elven deeds The sadness and grief of this terrifying moment in the history of Valinor comes through nicely in this chapter, despite the author's liberties with formal history.
Whether she fought there with her Telerin relatives against her Noldorin kin or not, the sorrow of it all - the loss of the Trees included, which must have been such an incomprehensible loss for all of them Valar and elves alike- is well described. Even the footnnotes are more sober than playful here. Well done! :-)
Author's reply
Fantastic, it's so good to hear that this bit works out seriously! I mean, the piece as a whole is not serious, but of course this particular episode is a very serious one and I wasn't trying to take it lightly. So it's great to hear that it comes across well.
... and now the serious bit is over, the way is clear for the punchline in the next chapter. :D As ever, thank you for reading!
Larner
· 31 January 2010
· Chapter 4: The Sack of Alqualondë
Alas for the battle happening at all; but this is so silly, to try to make of Galadriel a missionary! I want to laugh at so much of the fake nobility of her speeches!
Author's reply
Wonderful, that's precisely the reaction I hoped for! Thank you for saying so! :D
Larner
· 30 January 2010
· Chapter 3: Darkness falls upon Valinor
To see Galadriel portrayed as an overzealous, bigheaded bigot like this is rather funny! Poor Galadriel--she must have been both amused and appalled to see such things written in her name!
Author's reply
To be honest, I think Galadriel was absolutely furious. But that's another story. :D I'm so glad you're amused by this! and as ever, thank you for reading!
Redheredh
· 29 January 2010
· Chapter 3: Darkness falls upon Valinor
So, the Darkness has come. I have a feeling this tale isn't going to be so fluffy anymore, and the criticism a little more precise then dismissive.
So, it takes only 6 months (or what ever short block of time represented)to build a Swan ship? Really? Naw, that has to be the author just getting it wrong again. And not worth another note or the quibble. Why, the trip to Tol Eressea from Alqualonde apparently takes only 1 day.
But wow, Alatriel is so confident and trusting in Teleporno. Who would have known that? When he speaks, she is calmed. Fears allayed. That we all could be so... Victorian. Although, I personally would not like to be as distant from my grandfather as she appears to be. Or possessed of the worst romantic paradox about 'simple' folk.
However, that is the style for this story, and I love how you are using it!
Author's reply
Yes, things should definitely get a little messier in the next chapter. And you're probably right re: building of ship plus sailing to Tol Eressea -- and absolutely right that such errors are attributable to the anonymous author, who (whatever else s/he may be) has never seen Valinor and in any case has a rather different set of priorities. Western geography isn't really E&M's strong point either. ;)
Obviously Teleporno/Celeborn is a very reassuring person. :D I'm borrowing from Mrs Jeffreys again, really, although only because that particular pattern happened to suit me anyway. And it's great to hear you like how the style's playing out! Thank you for reading, as ever, and for such detailed comments!
perelleth
· 29 January 2010
· Chapter 3: Darkness falls upon Valinor
The author manages to convey the dread of that moment with some intensity here! Now they wail instead, and the sound is like the keening of the gulls. This was wonderfully evoking!
As for the rest, I bet this book's been for ong in celeborn's list of most hatred books of the age, why with all that insistent, almost mocking Teleporno! I agree with Erestor and mElinna in doubting that Glaadriel would have let pass the chance to remark upon the superiority of her talents at weaving, while acknowledging that there was a skill she had not mastered even beofre she went down to enlighten her poor rleatives and grace them with her presence! :-)
I really like to see that variation of the tale, that celeborn and galadriel sailed on theri own because they had already decided to do so, brought to life. This is so much fun!
Author's reply
I'm very glad you think I got the moment across -- it's surprisingly tricky to do atmosphere using other people's writing styles! Hopefully the slightly nastier scenes in the following chapter will work out as well. And, ahaha, good to see you agree Celeborn's indignation at the tale is justified! :D
It is really *very* entertaining to write a story that keeps faithfully to every letter of the perfect!Galadriel UT versions, while at the same time subverting that UT spirit in as many ways as possible. And it's really wonderful to hear that you're enjoying it! Thank you, as ever. :D
curiouswombat
· 28 January 2010
· Chapter 2: Alqualondë and Teleporno
This is wonderful - so like so many books to be found in our own reality... But so wonderfully explained and clarified for us by E&A. :~)
Author's reply
I'm so glad you think so! The journal entries are modelled on Mrs Jeffreys' journal -- the link in the prologue should be working now, if you want to compare and contrast :D -- and the critical notes are totally based on the sort of stuff I have to read all the time in RL. It's fun to be writing this stuff for a change, instead of just reading and analysing it. Thank you so much for indulging me by reading!
perelleth
· 25 January 2010
· Chapter 2: Alqualondë and Teleporno
LOLOL I am not sure what I find more delightful: The author's naive tone or the deliciously snarky notes of the editors!
The author delights me in her sufficiency: I'm reading the original ( thank you thank you) and LMAO, and the tone here is perfectly pitched. But the notes! 3 and 4 had me howling, and wondering if Erestor and Melinna were ever allowed to set foot on Lorien after this...:-)
BUt, since they were merciful enough to let pass this I wished therefore to carry this selfsame cup abroad to far-flung lands that had not benefited from such teachings, that I might among such poor and ignorant people, in humble and self-effacing mood, share the rich vintage of my own unsurpassable wisdom. without comment, I think maybe that saved them. In humble and self effacing mode! LOLOL! Priceless, I tell you. I'm loving this, Clodia, congratulations!
Author's reply
I have to admit, I think Galadriel probably refused to speak to Erestor and Melinna for several decades after this -- if not centuries. But I'm sure they wandered back into Lorien every now and then anyway, if only to share their gossip with Celeborn. :'D
It's great that the tone matches the original! I'm not being as precise with the mimicry here as in the Beleriand Treasury pastiches, mostly because there's just so much more of the Journal that absolute precision would take *forever* and also would probably be a bit excessive; I was aiming to capture the flavour, though, so I'm glad you think that works. And that you're enjoying the original -- I do think it's full of rather fascinating stuff, all Signs of the Time aside.
(So very glad also that you picked out that sentence; I hesitated for a moment between 'unsurpassed' and 'unsurpassable', and went with the latter just to be absolutely sure. Merciful? Perhaps. But to be truthful, I couldn't think of any comment that wouldn't just have been rubbing it in. Poor Galadriel, so grossly misrepresented! :'D)
Virtuella
· 25 January 2010
· Chapter 2: Alqualondë and Teleporno
I think you deserve a medal just for thinking of this project, never mind excuting it so well. It is most delightfully whimsical and charmingly ridiculous.
Author's reply
Credit where it's due, the idea did spring from a conversation with Randy and Aislynn, quite a long time ago now. 'Whimsical and ridiculous' -- precisely what I was aiming for, really! (Considering that 'Blood and Fire' was the last major Silm project I wrote, I thought I was due frivolity this time round. :'D) And it is rather peculiar, so I'm so glad you like it!
Erulisse
· 24 January 2010
· Chapter 2: Alqualondë and Teleporno
Anachronism upon anachronism - and so, piled onto a shaky pile of "veracity". I have no doubt that Lord Celeborn remembers his courtship differently, indeed I suspect that historian also view history differently. Thank goodness for the editors and their dedication to ferreting out the truths and untruths from this formal missive of tale-telling :-)
You're doing a wonderful job here, Clodia.
Author's reply
It means a lot to me that you think that. This is fun to write, although the extensive mimicry of Mrs Jeffreys' journal makes it more time-consuming than it would otherwise be; I'm so glad you're enjoying it!
Redheredh
· 24 January 2010
· Chapter 2: Alqualondë and Teleporno
LOL! Well done! You've even gotten me pondering what a fourth-age deconstructionist might make of these contemporaries' critical notes. :D
Author's reply
Ahahah, now that would be pretty hilarious. What a wonderful suggestion! :'D
Larner
· 24 January 2010
· Chapter 2: Alqualondë and Teleporno
This is quite funny in many ways, looking at the possibilities and the comparisons between versions. Heh! And I'm certain Celeborn had a quite different view of the courtship between himself and his beloved wife! Heh!
Author's reply
I'm so glad you think so! It amuses me to write it, but I know I don't have much of a sense of humour. ;)
As ever, thanks so much for reading and commenting!
Larner
· 24 January 2010
· Chapter 1: Introduction
Not precisely a polite view of the Silvan folk, is it? Most interesting! No, I cannot see Galadriel being this dishonest or unflattering to her own people's former leaders.
Author's reply
Wonderful! That's precisely the reaction I wanted. :D
Redheredh
· 21 January 2010
· Chapter 1: Introduction
Most amusing! I really like what you are doing here with excursive claims and critical annotations. It has a very turn-of-the-century feel!
E&M viewpoint is as entertainingly naive as that of the journal's author. And who the actually author will turn out to be intrigues me. Good work!
Author's reply
I have to admit, I'm using my academic voice for the critical notes. :D I suppose it would be slightly more authentic to mimic a nineteenth century scholar -- but then, there's such a thing as taking a joke slightly too far. I'm glad you're enjoying it!
Again, thanks so much for reading and commenting! The following chapters should be rather more substantial, I promise. ^^
perelleth
· 21 January 2010
· Chapter 1: Introduction
OK, this is getting better as it goes. The critical edition is going to be a hoot, isn't it? Notes 3 and 4 are particularly hilarious. So they are going to prove the point that the Journal was not actually written by the lady Galadriel herself? Will we get to know their suspect?
The style continues to be delightful. And yes, no Teleporno, we got that, Lord Celeborn! :-)
Author's reply
I would hate to spoil anything for you, so... let's just say that if the culprit isn't obvious by the end of this story, I plan to write a Beleriand Treasury entry that should make everything very clear. And I'm so glad you're enjoying this! Thanks for reading, as ever! ^^
Raksha The Demon
· 19 January 2010
· Chapter 0: Title Page; Preface; Editors' Foreword
Ooh, this looks nifty! I love Celeborn's foreward - Thank you, Lord Silver Tree, for clarifying that you were never the Teleri prince Teleporno....
Can't wait to read more!
Author's reply
You can't blame Celeborn for being rather firm on that point -- Teleporno is an *awful* name. :D
Thank you for reading, as ever. I hope the rest doesn't disappoint!
Redheredh
· 18 January 2010
· Chapter 0: Title Page; Preface; Editors' Foreword
What fun! I love your application of this literary style! And cannot wait to read the next installment!
The wryly affectionate voice you gave Celeborn was delightful. I can easily say that because he is one of my favorites. Although you allowed him some sarcastic self-effacing, I think he would have included Eriador and Harlindon in his credits for those were also realms he shared with his spouse, along with Eregion. But then, maybe they were too unhistorical of periods of rule to bother mentioning.
E&M's remarks were very entertaining too. I really like those two! Yes, I have read Blook and Fire and not left a review. Bad on me...
Lastly, I especially like your choice for this journal to be "published" during the Watchful Peace.
Author's reply
It's great to hear that you liked the literary style! I was afraid a piece of extended mimicry modelled on a missionary's journal from 1827 would be very much a niche interest, so I'll be so pleased if people other than me find this story amusing. The Watchful Peace seemed like a good time for whimsical literary distractions of this nature; also, of course, it had to be set safely after Amroth's removal from Lorinand to make any sense.
I'm very glad Celeborn's voice works for you -- the style was rather dictated by the preface to Mrs Jeffrey's journal, but you describe precisely how I wanted his meaning to come across, which is tremendously reassuring. Eriador and Harlindon -- oh dear, well, you're probably right and I'll confess to pinpointing here the realms that are most significant to my overall view of Tolkien's history, which tends to be biased towards the First Age. Uh. Also, tricolons are nice? No, it's not a very good excuse, I know; I hope you'll forgive me! ;)
And finally, thank you for saying that you like E&M! I'm always particularly interested in how they come across, because all my stories are arranged around their lives to some extent. It would spoil my fun if people disliked them.
Thank you for reading and reviewing! I do hope the rest of the piece doesn't disappoint you!
Larner
· 17 January 2010
· Chapter 0: Title Page; Preface; Editors' Foreword
A most auspicious and intriguing beginning, I must say! Waiting for more, of course!
Author's reply
I'm so glad you think so! Thanks for reading; I do hope the rest of this rather peculiar piece doesn't disappoint. :D