FantasyFan
· 7 February 2005
· Chapter 41: Guild Masters, Kings, and the Gift of Iluvatar
It has long grieved me, since I read Tolkien's letters, to realize that Frodo (and Sam) would die in Valinor. When I first read the books, I naively assumed that Undying Lands meant exactly that - and I always felt some comfort in the bittersweet ending of the books, to think that Frodo still lived, healed and happy. In this case, more knowledge was less comfort, and I have accepted the reasons that Frodo must die. But it doesn't make me feel any better about it.
I am wondering a little about the information that Ruvemir gives in this chapter. I don't remember it being written that Frodo would be given the gift of the Numenorean kings, in recognizing the proper time and giving up his life gratefully, although I have always privately thought it likely. I also wonder about the statement that Frodo's end would be hastened because he was a mortal living in the land of Valinor. If that is true, it would be unlikely for him to survive until Sam came after Rosie's death. Do you have canon support for either of these things? This isn't a criticism, by the way, just curiosity.
My own personal UUT (utterly unsupported theory) would be that Eru, being fond of creating exceptions to his own rules, would allow Frodo as long as he wanted, thereby granting me the comfort I seem to need that Frodo and Sam lived long together in Aman, and being the curious types, may be there still.
Author's reply
It is my own UUT that Frodo would be given the grace to recognize his time was coming and to choose to offer his life back and accept what comes next; this is written nowhere that I am aware of. As in the eyes of Iluvatar physical death is a gift, I would assume that after having received healing in Aman Frodo would be at least as aware as Aragorn would later be of when his time was approaching.
I did not say Frodo's end would be hastened by being in Valinor--he is no longer quite a usual mortal, after all. He has been to the gates of death already and was drawn back from them by the hands of the King; he was well on the way to wraithdom before Elrond could call him back to relative normalcy after the stab by the Morgul blade; Gandalf has foreseen his nature was changing at the time he was recovering in Rivendell. I don't think his death will be hastened as Ar Pharazon was warned (can't remember exactly where I read that warning, whether in the Silmarillion or the Unfinished Tales or where); but I don't think he would choose to remain much past Sam in the end; and Sam has been aging pretty normally for a Hobbit in Middle Earth all these years.
As for how I think Bilbo, Frodo, and Sam would find their ends, I suggest you read "Filled with Light as with Water," also on this site.
harrowcat
· 7 February 2005
· Chapter 41: Guild Masters, Kings, and the Gift of Iluvatar
*deep sigh*
The conversation about the gift of Iluvatar is just perfect.
I am sorry that I haven't reviewed in a while but I am checking in every morning and often late at night to see if you have updated. A wonderful tale and I love the OC characters almost as much as the others which are so true to my imagining. Thank you and please don't finish the story too soon!
Author's reply
I'm glad you are enjoying the story, and hope it continues to please.
As a Christian myself, I'm certain Tolkien saw that which comes after physical death as a fulfillment, and the sorrow would remain with those of us mortal-side and not with those who are going on.
Lindelea
· 6 February 2005
· Chapter 2: The Sculptor
It seems I won't run out of reading material soon, for you have posted more than one chapter since last I had time to read.
Interesting character sketch here; that your sculptor's skill and artistic endeavors are compensation of a sort. The picture of Strider is very faithful to the hobbits' first glimpse of him in Bree, nicely drawn.
Thanks!
Author's reply
I've been trying to post a chapter a day, although it's going to get harder as I'm catching up with what I've written ahead.
So glad you find Aragorn as Strider believable and consistent with what the Hobbits first saw.
I see a younger Ruvemir as having been one out to prove himself to the world, although now in his probably mid to late thirties he realizes his own worth and is less needy in that way.
Dreamflower
· 6 February 2005
· Chapter 41: Guild Masters, Kings, and the Gift of Iluvatar
Another fine chapter!
I really love to see the wisdom and insight of Ruvemir, his appreciation for the real meaning of the Gift of Iluvatar. This is something so rare, it's no wonder that he has won the friendship and respect of the King.
Author's reply
Yes, that he has. Finding folk one has respect for is so rare.
Eruviluieth
· 6 February 2005
· Chapter 41: Guild Masters, Kings, and the Gift of Iluvatar
I love Aragorn's ongoing joke about Thorongil. Yet another person to surprise with his many identities! The discussion on the undying lands was excellent. I think you really captured Tolkien's ideas. I'm so glad you called it Iluvatar's gift, not the doom of men. As you pointed out, it was meant as a gift of release to better things. The end here was very touching. Ruvemir's understanding of such things may be part of why he is able to sculpt people so well - he understands so much of the inner workings. Truly beautiful words about the Gift. And an excellent further explanation of the nature of hobbits - their nature is somewhat tied up with their height, isn't it? Thanks for all your insights into Tolkien's world. Please keep on with your great job!
Author's reply
Dying is, after all, part of living; and it is the release to what comes next.
Ruvemir is a forensic sculptor, but one who wishes to portray the reality of his subjects. As Sam said, back when he realized that Ruvemir had basically shaken down Frodo's room in Bag End, he couldn't do what he does without a curiosity about what makes others tick and a growing appreciation of sentient nature (can't truly say "human nature" as so many of Tolkien's folks are not human). The Hobbits were desperately uncomfortable with the depictions of themselves by the other artists because they are basically honest with and about themselves. What they saw was not honest and didn't show them as they knew themselves to be.
Ruvemir's model has been approved because it shows them not only how they are but because they recognize the basic truth in it, even if Frodo of the Nine Fingers holding out the Ring in challenge to the rest of the world is something that didn't happen.
Can you guess what the inscription on the base of the memorial will be?
Yes, he amdea good impression on Elise's family. And you can certainly see that she also has inherited her good nature from her family. They are a match well made.
Poor Legolas ... “Would he be descended from Odo Proudfoot, then?” , he learned quite a bit from the hobbits repetetion of family relationships then. ;-) Soon he can expound on the intimate details of hobbit relationships to the nth degree.
Speaking of which, those youngsters just have to find a little trouble to get into. It was a good thing they were caught by Eregiel tahn an unsavory character while out late. And a fitting punichment Ruvemir found for them too.
Author's reply
I'm certain all the non-Hobbit members of the Fellowship became thoroughly educated in the family geneologies for the four Hobbits in the group.
And I'm glad folk like Elise's family, as the members remind me much of my father's family.
Elise's family is just as nice as Ruvemir's. I'm so glad he will have pleasant in-laws!
I was tickled at Ririon and Pando sneaking off and following Ruvemir. Sounds like something a couple of hobbits we know might have done in their younger days.
This story is such a delight. I look forward eagerly to every new chapter.
Author's reply
I find I very much like them, too, and find myself most drawn to Idril. As Pando has had a history of spying on Frodo, I figured one day he'd have to do the same here. Hope it helps more than it gets them into trouble.
grumpy
· 5 February 2005
· Chapter 39: Brothers in Light
I have to say it again, I love this story, you do such great work with the characters. I love the thought of Aragorn and Frodo being mirror images.
I can just see Aragorn sitting and singing while watching Ruvemir work.
I look forward to each chapter.
I am really enjoying this story and have spent the last two or three days catching up on it from Chapter 18 to Chapter 40. I cannot believe how much I have come to love each of your original characters but I do, almost as much as I love the characters we already know from LOTR!
Oh please DO update soon!
Author's reply
I've tried to update daily, so check tomorrow or the next day, if I'm working so much I can't get updated tomorrow.
Good to see you back.
SharonB
· 5 February 2005
· Chapter 39: Brothers in Light
Ah, there is such profoundness in what you wrote I'm note reallysure what to say in a review. I'd never really compared the similarities between Aragron and Frodo before. Wow, how interesting.
Author's reply
As with Tolkien himself, I like to promote thought.
Thanks for the feedback.
Eruviluieth
· 4 February 2005
· Chapter 39: Brothers in Light
Another incredible chapter! Putting Aragorn and Sam and Frodo together - it's just so true! Ruvemir's devotion is amazing; it's no wonder his father bows to it. This memorial is serving its purpose even before its completion. And that purpose seems to be the spreading of the love of Frodo Baggins and his brothers-in-heart, Aragorn and Sam. Just excellent. Keep on!
Author's reply
Thank you. I agree heartily.
Anonymous
· 4 February 2005
· Chapter 38: Lord Frodo's Stone
Please forgive me if this is a stupid question (I haven't been able to read this story nearly as closely as I would like to), but I was wondering why you have Ruvemir refer to his father with the elvish "Adar." I was under the impression that elves were rather, well, not secluded exactly, but not enough of most Men's everyday life for such a language exchange to be likely. Like I said, though, I've probably just missed something obvious.
Thanks again for such a great story! I'm thouroughly enjoying it.
Author's reply
Remembering from LOTR, the Hobbits realized that the language spoken by the people of Gondor when not using the Common Tongue was a form of Elvish, but somewhat changed by years of estrangement from actual Elvish influence. Therefore their proper language probably had a good deal of Sindarin and possibly Quenyan words as well. That Adar would probably be used by upperclass property holders and owners of estates seems to me to be fitting.
Have Aragorn discussing this question in a later chapter.
(Think of the relationship of "Pherian" usage in Gondor and "Perian" among the Dunedain and Elves of the north.)
SharonB
· 4 February 2005
· Chapter 38: Lord Frodo's Stone
Ruvemir and Faragil seemed to have had quite a good relationship. Ruvemir needs to draw out the reasons that Celebgil doesn't have anywhere near that type of relationship with his own master. I can see how Ruvemir and Miriel came up with such good attitudes on life from how their father is. It looks as though everyone will have a good homecoming with Mardil when they go that way.
It was interesting how the carving went so well with Aragorn singing in Quenya, but that must be part of the Noldor way of shaping and crafting. Another good chapter.
Author's reply
I suspect you are correct regarding the Noldor crafting using song as part of the process. Certainly seeing the creation of the universe as a direct effect of creative harmony would lead them to see singing as part of any creative process.
Personally, I think two such nice people as Miriel and Ruvemir would have had to have come from such parents as Mardil and his late wife.
Dreamflower
· 4 February 2005
· Chapter 38: Lord Frodo's Stone
This is wonderful! I love Ruvemir's father; he seems so kind and wise, it's easy to see why Ruvemir and Miriel are so special, and are not bitter about their physical differences, with such a father as that. And I like Ruvemir's old master as well.
So the queen is about to give birth! That's going to be exciting!
And it looks as though Ruvemir is, indeed, beginning to suspect what Celebgil's problem is. I hope that he talks with the lad soon!
Looking very forward to the wedding...
Author's reply
He will, but whether or not Celebgil will be forthcoming is another question.
Bodkin
· 4 February 2005
· Chapter 38: Lord Frodo's Stone
It was good to see Ruvemir's father arrive for the wedding - and his former master.
And the commission is coming on well. I like the way Elessar came and sang as Ruvemir carved.
Author's reply
I agree. Thanks for the feedback.
FantasyFan
· 4 February 2005
· Chapter 38: Lord Frodo's Stone
You know, I actually had tears in my eyes, as Ruvemir worked and the king sang in the shadowy room. This whole story has been building, layer by layer, on the character of Frodo. To hear Ruvemir describe him to his father, and to see the respect that they show to the flawed piece of stone that takes the place of the ringbearer, is very heartfelt and emotional. Ruvemir speaks for us all who have never met him, in truth, but still love him.
This is really a marvelous story. I'm looking forward to more, as always.
Author's reply
I know. We are learning both of Frodo and of Aragorn throughout the whole story, I've found, for their stories are so inextricably intertwined.
Pernauriel
· 3 February 2005
· Chapter 37: Interlude with Letters
I love reading this story. I hope that Master Varondil gets caughts before he does something really nasty.
Author's reply
I suspect the man has already done thoroughly nasty things, myself. Thanks for the feedback.
Breon Briarwood
· 3 February 2005
· Chapter 37: Interlude with Letters
Have I told you lately how much I love this story?
Author's reply
I am glad that you do so. Thanks.
Dreamflower
· 2 February 2005
· Chapter 37: Interlude with Letters
I love it when stories are told with letters (do it a lot myself) and these are particularly fine. I could see and hear the writers, as I read them along with Ruvemir, and I thought his own letters in response were wonderfully done. They had just the right mix of dignity and familiarity. I find myself imagining the recipients' joy on hearing from him again.
Once more, I have to tell you how very impressive this story is!
Author's reply
I wish I could really do what I see as Rosie's script and handwriting in here, as it is a wonderful mix between childishness and maturity. And I'm glad you feel the letters are right for the characters.
SharonB
· 2 February 2005
· Chapter 36: Bringing out Captain Peregrin
Ruvemir notices well the feelings Celebgil has for his Master. How long before we find out the whole story behind that? ;-) It seems that list of guests for the wedding grows each day. Aragorn is right about the size of the gathering, some will be amazed at how many and just who are there. ;-)
Varondil seems to be finding it hard to make Ruvemir look bad so far. Every time he wants to try more good seems to come out about Ruvemir. Does Ruvemir fully realize what kind of man that Varondil really is? It will be interesting to see how the full story plays out. You are doing a great job of teasing us with little bits and pieces of the facts.
Author's reply
Varondil is getting a pretty good idea of what is going on, but he'll need more evidence before he can do anything about it. Also, he does have good reason to be distracted.
Bodkin
· 2 February 2005
· Chapter 36: Bringing out Captain Peregrin
I'm sorry that I'm getting behind as a reviewer. I'm enjoying the activities in Minas Tirith, although that Vorondil is rather a worry. He seems to be rather a dirty fighter, that one. Although none of the others is likely to fall for any schemes - Ruvemir, Aragorn et al are pretty good at recognising what people are.
The apprentices are showing a great deal of talent - and I wouldn't be terribly surprised to find that the girl with the burns is about to find a champion.
Looking forward to more.
Author's reply
Yes, I rather think she is getting a champion--probably several as the next few chapters play out.
Dreamflower
· 2 February 2005
· Chapter 36: Bringing out Captain Peregrin
A marvelously eventful chapter! The work is proceeding beautifully! Your details are so convincing--do you sculpt yourself, or is it simply the result of exhaustive research?
I take it Varondil was hoping to find something he could use against Ruvemir? Too bad for him, it looked as though his visit backfired. I loved it when Aragorn himself attested to Sam's scholarship.
And the letters: you so perfectly captured the voices and personalities of the senders that it was like actually having them there. I adored Sam's letter, especially, the mixture of homely descriptions and scholarly minutiae. Pippin's was a hoot--wonder what kind of prank he has planned on Merry and Sam? And Merry's letter was adorable. Merry is just as inquisitive as any Took, isn't he? I also liked the more serious part of it, as he admits to Ruvemir how getting their grief for Frodo out in the open has helped them all.
Wondering now how soon Varondil's proclivities are going to come out, and how they will be dealt with. That nasty definitely needs taking down.
Author's reply
Yes, it will happen that Varondil's problems will come out, but it will take time.
I am looking forward to seeing what Pippin has in mind as well. I suspect, however, it will be a lot more constructive than some of his past pranks.
lwarren
· 1 February 2005
· Chapter 33: Knowing Dignity
I really enjoyed thinking about all the different ways dignity can be shown by a person. I think your description of Sam's "native dignity" was very appropriate. He hadn't been raised in an elevated position...he was very much a self-made hobbit (it seems to me his education came about as much by his own will as by anyone else...except perhaps for Frodo always offering him the chance, I guess.) I like the way Ririon can 'hear' the dignity of each hobbit in the way they're spoken of...he's a very discerning young man. But once again, Ruvemir 'steals the show' for me when he tells Celebgil about Arwen's choice, and explains about the 'will' of the One Ring. He's just so eloquent (along with the author who portrays him so well) about it and his own dignity constantly shines through. Great chapter!
linda
Author's reply
Thank you for the review. The dignity of the Hobbits has always been of importance to me, for all their tendency to be flippant.
SharonB
· 1 February 2005
· Chapter 35: Plans for Married Life
Ah, we move forward towards the wedding. Aragorn and Arwen are involving Ruvemir and Elise more and more and nicely going out of their way to make Elsie feel comfortable. But won't Elise's travelling with her husband encroach on her duties with the kings' babysitting duties? I'm sure though they can find others as well as her.
Oh, I was glad yo be able to pass on what little art knowledge I have. SIL (sister-in-law) helped us make a cookie mold from a design we wanted. When we took it to the kiln it had to wait until they had a full load to fire the kiln up. That's the only way I'd ever know about keeping the clay a little moist until it's fired. ;-)
Author's reply
It will be a time before they leave for the north, so Elise will have some time caring for the children beforehand. Arwen isn't planning to share the baby, I suspect, for the first month, not more than she has to.
Yes, the kilns ought to be full before firing, or it can be a waste of time and money. Kilns aren't cheap to run.