Tapetum Lucidum
· 5 February 2005
· Chapter 8: Dining in Dale
The inn sounds quite charming. I don't think I could have stood the smell, much less the elves. It was funny - the innkeeper wasn't too happy to see them until Beliond pulled out a coin. The dispute over where to eat supper was very intense. Legolas is still young enough to see this as a big adventure. Poor Beliond knows more of the evils of men and is terrified. Nice contrast. I was shocked when Legolas mouthed off to his bodyguard so strongly. His patience was completely gone. The ordering fiasco was cute - the poor princeling has never been in a restaurant. The ale must not compare well to Dorwinion either.
The encounter with the lady of the evening had me LOL! Legolas was polite enough but I didn't realize how niave he was. That was great! I am relieved that you didn't have Beliond explain further. Legolas' eduction is lackng
He certainly knew what to do when confronted with drunken idiots. The pair handled the situation very well. I loved the dwarven input. I think the stunted ones are just jealous. I can't really blame the men for being jealous - I wouldn't want to compete with elves either.
Good job Beliond! He used the opportunity to dig up some info on the Bad Man. Acild is a cool name. Having a brother with the king's ear does not bode well for the elves. Legolas must be happy to finally get to search the man's shop. Sounds like he was wise to trust his instincts.
Eilian is doing great as a diplomat. His personality really shows in this scene. He is open and truthful about himself, very charming, but he still manages to eek out some useful info. He still manages to have a lot of fun! Well done!
Author's reply
You don't think this inn would get five stars? LOL. Maybe not. I didn't think it was too bad, given the standards of the times. I thought about the Prancing Pony and wondered how this would compare. That inn seemed not bad to me, although I guess I'm glad I don't have to stay there.
I thought Beliond might react strongly to Legolas saying "you're not my father." I don't think Legolas necessarily meant it the way Beliond might hear it, of course. And I did think it was time for Legolas to assert himself. When I write these scenes I always get myself in a tangle because I wind up thinking that both my characters are right. :-)
Legolas did better with the drunks than the prostitute, although his politeness went a long way there too. But he's used to being in fights and knows how to manage himself there. We'll see how he and Beliond do in their venture into breaking and entering.
And Eilian is enjoying himself, just like he always seems to manage to do.
elliska
· 5 February 2005
· Chapter 8: Dining in Dale
Daw you are evil! Of all the things I imagined happening in that inn, I did not expect prostitutes! Of course I should have. I wrote my dissertation on lower class women in medieval society. But that was absolutely hilarious. I am still laughing. I cannot believe you did that to Legolas! Beliond's reaction and explanation and Legolas's subsequent reaction were absolutely priceless. I think I am going to die laughing and my husband is looking at me like I have lost my mind!
Ok, now that I am done with that rant...the whole inn scene was wonderful. From the tension, to Legolas's confrontations with Beliond to the ale (also great, but I was ready for that one) to the appearance of the Easterling. Just really well done. I am anxious to see how their search of the shop goes. I fear trouble.
And Eilian's dinner with the king is not much less of a culture shock, poor thing. You have it right on that they spread sauce with their fingers. It was considered rude to put your spoon in the sauce (if you had one). I have a great essay on 'table manners' somewhere written in 1400. It makes me cringe. Poor Eilian. But he manages to notice the pleasing characteristics of the queen. He would. :) His conversation with the king was very well done. They are both fishing. Eilian is behaving openly, as he must to gain trust and he is learning things as well. But the king is not returning the gesture. That makes me wonder. Especially since he has info about Thranduil--he should know better then to doubt him. But then he does hit it right on the head that Thranduil doesn't particularly love Men. Very interesting little mystery.
I was really hoping for an update this weekend. I was really in the mood. This was just great. I'm going to go read it again. Wonderful job!
Author's reply
You must have had a fun dissertation! Mine was boring. Even I don't remember what it was about. But Legolas's education has been furthered by this trip, although perhaps in ways he won't report to Thranduil.
Taking these guys to Dale has proven to be a lot of fun. It's made room for some culture clashes and a bit of intrigue. I found that thing about using the fingers in the sauce on the internet and decided it would be fun to use. It's just strange enough to make people blink.
I doubt if Bram has anyone actually *in* Thranduil's council meetings. That's unthinkable to me because they'd all be elves. But he sure knows who goes to the meetings. If Thranduil has spies, you can bet Bram does too. He is as careful about his people as Thranduil is about his.
Glad you enjoyed it, Elliska.
Alison H
· 5 February 2005
· Chapter 8: Dining in Dale
Ha, it's a wonder Beliond's hair hasn't turned prematurely grey during this trip to Dale! I thoroughly loved the way Legolas squared up to Beliond in this chapter, asserting himself when he knew his reasoning was correct.Beliond just makes me smile because his concern for Legolas wonderful to observe, even though Legolas often resents it.
I was so looking forward to Legolas and Beliond entering the inn and I wasn't disappointed at all----it was both exciting and humerous to see Legolas wide-eyed at the unfamiliar surroundings.To hear the woman proposition him was hysterical and Beliond obviously knew what the woman was about!! Legolas blushing must be even more attractive but I thought that he handled himself very well when the drunken men approached.He readied himself for a fight but he had his wits about him when he tried to placate the angry men.I have an idea that Thranduill and Ithilden are going to be mad at him anyway when he gets home---and Elian will have some explaining to do himself!
The spice merchant is a very interesting character and one wonders if his brother, working with the King's advisor, has been behind the false rumours.A very intrigueing plot you have here, Daw.
Now Legolas and Beliond are going to do a bit of breaking and entering and Eilian is still trying to glean some information from the King----I love it!
Thanks agin for this story, Daw.Can't wait for the next chapter!
Author's reply
I had a good time trying to show both Beliond and Legolas as right.They each have valid points, but I did think it was time for Legolas to assert himself.
Legolas has experience as a warrior and when he's in that mode, he does very well. He's serious and not easily shaken. So the encounter with the drunken men went ok. It's when he deals with unfamiliar cultural stuff that he flounders a little. He's been raised to be polite and that always comes through. But he just hadn't anticipated a lady of the evening!
Yes, we're going to see some elven B&E. I might have to check in on things back at the palace first, but then we'll see what's going on in the spice shop. I'm glad you liked it, Alison.
meckinock
· 5 February 2005
· Chapter 8: Dining in Dale
Poor Legolas. But he did ask for it, didn't he? I was howling. And Beliond cracked me up - "Do you need me to explain further?" Smirk. Yes, I would certainly say that Legolas has received an education in the matter of inns.
Well, and it looks like he's about to receive an education in breaking and entering, as well. This looks to be a very interesting foray into petty criminality. I bet Beliond can pick a lock in about three seconds flat.
Eilian seems to be foundering, though, and not just because he finds King Bram's wife a tart and his dinner etiquette repulsive. Looks like King Bram may have concluded he's not someone worth dealing with. Wonder how he knows what goes on in Thranduil's cabinet meetings?
This just keeps getting better and better...
Author's reply
I spent a while trying to decide how Legolas would react to a prostitute and decided that the whole concept was so foreign to him that it just wouldn't occur to him that that's what she was, even though he theoretically knew they existed. So yeah, I'd say Legolas's education has been extended.
You know, it never actually occurred to me to think of their planned activities as breaking and entering. I suppose that's a sign of my Detroit girlhood! :-)
Bram's trying to find out it Eilian knows whereof he speaks. If Thranduil keeps him in the dark, then Eilian can look honest as the day is long and still be telling a falsehood. Think of poor Colin Powell!
meckinock
· 5 February 2005
· Chapter 7: Thranduilions
I was just loving Eilian's discussion with King Bram. He analyzed and negotiated the initial minefield expertly, especially for someone with minimal prior diplomatic experience. Thranduil should be so proud! Eilian really does have a natural ability to bridge gaps and inspire trust (which makes curious to see how Beliond ever cut it as a spy - he must have a hidden "charm" switch under his tunic somewhere!)
Speaking of Beliond, I think it was lucky that Maltanaur was there to gracefully diffuse the dilemma over accomodations. I suppose there are bound to be conflicts of interest when everyone on the team has a different mission, but Beliond was awfully quick to pronounce what the sleeping arrangements would be without considering anyone else's priorities. It'll be interesting to see what happens when there's no mediator - it looks like Legolas is ready to assert himself. This is a deliciously complicated interpersonal situation. I am so glad you sent these four on a mission together. And in a foreign environment, yet. This is brilliant.
Ithilden, Ithilden, Ithilden. What did Ada and Nana tell you about lying? I don't know how Thranduil managed to not strangle him when he still had the kahunas to ask what the swordmaster thought about him joining the novices after being read the riot act for lying. Geez, and he still thinks it's about his fighting skills! Please let us see the scene where young Ithilden finally figures out what the point of that lecture was! Geez, Eilian's antics look mild in comparison. I guess that just goes to show that there was more wrapped up in the friction between Thranduil and Eilian than met the eye.
This was another great chapter in a super story!
Author's reply
Beliond was more your lurking kind of spy! I guess anyway. This is not an area I have a lot of experience in. Along with tons of other things in fanfiction too (archery, woodcraft, warfare, horses, etc.).
The four way set of relationships has presented me with a lot of possibilities and I'm having a hard time taking advantage of them all. Also some of it is kind of subtle. I don't think that Legolas knows why Beliond is so overprotective, although I hope readers do.
Young Ithilden is maddening because he's so sure he's right. Even Thranduil was amazed by him. I think maybe naneth needs to have a little talk with him.
Glad to hear from you. Hope you're having fun. :-)
perelleth
· 3 February 2005
· Chapter 7: Thranduilions
Nice to have this chapter waiting for me! I've finally decided to print out some of your stories and now I'm catching up pretty fast (thanks to airport chaos, delays and cancellations that have hit me this week more times than it is fair for a single person, or statistics would allow!! :-(
I'm glad Eilian seems to be almost exceeding his Adar's expectations with King Bram. Beliond should have seen him, too!
Anyway, it is fun how protective of Legolas he, too, is. I was sure it had been Eilian who had suggested Todith he could send Legolas, but now he seems to be regretting he's been sent with him!!! Todith is even wiser than he seems to be, though I hope Thranduil won't charge that on Eilian's account when he get's word of this "family mission". And Legolas gets to have his night at the inn... it somehow reminds me of Pippin's excitement at the Prancing Pony in Bree!!!:-) The night promises to be full of events, I hope Legolas won't try to give Beliond the slip and go searching on his own... And I bet there's someone somewhere who's getting very worried by the presence of four elves in Dale.. mmm interesting...
But, above all, I loved Ithilden's flashback. I'm not certain about the time he was born but since he seems to be quite older than Eilian, and Third Age wasn't exactly a peaceful time, I bet he grew up feeling the pressure of serving the realm and helping his Adar, while Sinnarn now has his adar an uncles and seems to be quite protected from the harder truths of life out there. It is very interesting to see Ithilden struggle between what he thinks he should expect from his son (responsiblity and self control) and how much he regrets having his younger brothers serving the realm in dangerous or very dangerous positions. It is such a fascinating character you have here!!
Any chance we might be privy to some flashbacks on Thranduil's youthful eagerness as well? :-)
Author's reply
Air travel is just so dreary these days. It's a service industry that doesn't know it's supposed to provide service. But I'm glad it's giving you a chance to read.
Eilian is good with people and he and Bram seem to have similar senses of humor. They both think it's quite funny to lock the guards out of the room.
Ithilden was born around 1880 TA. He's a good 600 years older than his brothers, who are only 60 years apart. So evil was astir when he was young. He was an only child and his father's heir. I think he felt pressure from the start and is the kind who would take it seriously. And I think that like Thranduil he feels duty bound to sacrifice the younger elves' safety and send them into battle. But it kills him to do it. I've gotten to know him well only fairly recently in writing these stories. He's been hard to pin down.
It would be fun to write about young Thranduil. But not in this story!
White Wolf
· 2 February 2005
· Chapter 7: Thranduilions
There was just the right amount of tension between Eilian and Bram, who feels the need to be cautious, but I'm sure wants very much to believe all is well between his people and the elves.
I think Beliond probably wanted to strangle Maltanaur, when he suggested he and Legolad stay at the inn. Legolas sure is happy about that. It makes me wonder what will happen there. Will Beliond's unease prove founded?
Ithilden trying to trick one of the training masters? Who would ever have believed it!
Author's reply
Glad you liked the interaction between Eilian and Bram. I struggled with it for some reason. But then I guess Eilian struggled with it too. :-)
It occurred to me that in a situation like this, Beliond's priorities and Maltanaur's might conflict. Maltanaur wants Legolas as Eilian's guard, and Beliond wants Legolas tucked in a safe place.
Yeah, who would have believed that Ithilden would do that? Thranduil was certainly incredulous.
Alice
· 1 February 2005
· Chapter 7: Thranduilions
I like King Bram. Straightforward kind of guy. I think Eilian will do well in charming him. We all hope so anyway. At the very least Bram's perceptive.
(snicker) I think Beliond feels betrayed by Maltaunar. Sputtering indeed. He was probably just biting back " Keeper solidarity, you traitor!" Hehe. And Legolas is being very cleverly deviant. I support him on it. He deserves to not be treated like a six year old. Despite what Beliond might think.
So, I have to admit I was cringing in pain for Ithilden throughout his little flashback. I was also both apalled and slightly in awe of his guts to go behind Thranduil's back like that. That takes quite a bit of gumption. No wonder Thranduil occasionally considers him to have been the difficult one. He knows what's right and Eru help you if you disagree. Fun teenager to live with, really. Maybe it's a good thing that he was an adult by the time Eilian and Legolas came along. I personally would not have wanted him as an older sibling, particularly as he was as a teenager.
I loved the mention of Lorellin by the way. It seems really sad to me that Sinnarn never got to meet her. I think they would have been great friends. And while Alfirin and Ithilden would have to keep Thranduil from disciplining Sinnarn they'd have to keep her from encouraging such excursions as jumping down to talk to the men. We should see more of Lorellin.
So, excellent chapter. I greatly look forward to the next one, complete with shenanigans at the Inn. I think Beliond's probably going to be the one to get into trouble at the Inn though. An anxious, tense Beliond who's testy at the best of times is not going to be someone you'd want to meet at a tavern.
Author's reply
I kind of liked Bram too. I reminded myself that this is an ancestor of Bard, who killed Smaug and did good things for the people of Esgaroth. And he seems to have a sense of humor that's like Eilian's. Shut the guards out of the room! Yes! Oh ha ha.
It occurred to me that Beliond and Maltanaur might wind up with different priorities here. Maltanaur wants Eilian's safety and sees Legolas as one of the people who are supposed to provide that, which he is. Beliond wants Legolas out of harm's way. I think Beliond understands, but he's not happy.
Ithilden would have been a terror as a teenager. I don't mean he would have been wild. Just that he's always sure he's right. Thranduil must have been completely astounded. I was just thinking yesterday that I need to bring Lorellin in a little more. I have so few oppportunities to write about her and I'm wasting this one.
Glad you liked it!
Ms. Whatsit
· 1 February 2005
· Chapter 7: Thranduilions
You know, for a second I suspected that there was something wrong with the wine Bram gave to Eilian. But I was wrong, I'm sure. Bram wouldn't be so criminally stupid.
I liked Diplomat!Eilian, forced to pick his words carefully and think hard before he speaks or does anything. And I laughed out loud when Eilian thought that "The problem with those words was that they were true." It can't be easy giving Thranduil good PR, can it.
I am very, very curious to find out more about Beliond's adventures among men. Perhaps he could tell Legolas a few stories, and let us readers listen in?
Author's reply
Whoa. You have a wicked imagination, Ms. Whatsit! Something in the wine would indeed cause a stir. Thranduil would seek vengeance right quick!
I had some trouble deciding if Eilian would be good at the diplomat stuff. He's impatient usually, and that wouldn't be good. But I thought he was eager to do well here, both because he wants to please his father (poor thing) and he knows how important the iron is to his warriors. And he's good with people too. And all he had to do was convince Bram that he was honest and he was half way home. Still I didn't think he'd want to do this all the time. He enjoys giving into the "fight" part of the "fight or flight" stress response, and dancing with words isn't going to be good enough in the long run.
As soon as Beliond tells me anything about his adventures, I'll let you know!
Dot
· 31 January 2005
· Chapter 7: Thranduilions
Sorry I’m a little late with this. A long day at work followed by what felt like an even longer phone call from a friend, who wanted to tell me all about her holiday…
I must say, I’m liking King Bram! He’s very real. And Eilian put in a great performance. I love the little game they have to play, with everyone sizing everyone else up beneath a layer of formality. I get the impression that Bram is no fool. He’s obviously very aware of the lack of interest in them from the elves and will no doubt be suspicious that this belated visit coincides with the rumours. I hadn’t thought about how frightening it could be for those living around Thranduil’s realm to know that the elves are investing a lot in arming themselves. It seems not to have occurred to the elves either but it certainly makes sense now that I see it.
“I do not think that will be necessary. Lord Eilian and I will be able to manage on our own.” That was rather Thranduil-esque! Nobody tagging along where they’re not needed, thank you very much. I can see that Bram and Eilian would be inclined to get along. They could probably have a fairly good time if this really were a social visit. But it isn’t, and they both know that. It must be hard for Eilian to be so very aware of his father’s voice in his head, but I thought he did well. He’s as reassuring as he possibly could be, really. And while Bram is understandably concerned for his people, he doesn’t seem the slightest bit fearful of the elves who’ve just landed on his doorstep and is even amused by the hovering Maltanaur. Or maybe he’s just thinking that “attendants” are the same, no matter what race!
This trip seems to be making Legolas see Beliond in a new light and realise that he’s an interesting person with interesting stories to tell, although he’s still chafing a little under his control. I was actually watching a documentary about Prince Harry last night (there wasn’t much on) and someone was saying that the job of the minder isn’t just to make sure the prince isn’t shot at but to ensure that he’s behaving within royal protocol and that he knows he’s representing the Queen at all times. I thought that was interesting. Thranduil’s sons and grandson have all wanted the freedom to make their own mistakes and learn from them at one time or another, and I’ve always been inclined to think that it’s best for young people to do that but I suppose it’s true too that they just cannot have the same chance as others do to make mistakes and try to find their own path. Beliond is quite overprotective and they definitely need to find more of a balance but I suppose maybe part of his job would involve seeing that Legolas behaves appropriately, as well as being responsible for his safety. I know Legolas and his brothers all know their place but as far as Beliond is probably concerned, he has a job to do and will do it whatever Legolas might say. If any of that made sense. Oh, I had a really odd dream about Beliond recently. Apparently I’m even feeling sorry for him in my sleep. I can’t remember much but the gist was that he must have felt very guilty when he saw Thranduil’s reaction to him leaving Legolas in Imladris and so when they all had to fight during the war, he chose to protect Thranduil and was badly injured defending him. He healed physically, but just waited long enough for Legolas to come home and said goodbye to him and sailed west. I wasn’t even reading ‘A Question of Duty’ lately. Strange.
“We can stay in the inn that is just down the street.” Well… I guess it is his job to stay close to Eilian and Maltanaur – what a coincidence it happens to annoy Beliond! He knows very well Beliond won’t leave him alone for a second.
“Do not get raucous in the inn’s common room.” Sounds like Maltanaur is familiar with the layout of an inn…;-)
I’m getting worried about the horses because you keep mentioning them. I wouldn’t like to be the man trying to handle Tavor.
Good lord, daw. I don’t know what to say about the Ithilden flashback. He was obviously one of those kids who instead of wanting freedom, was always in a hurry to grow up. It’s sad really, because I get the impression he didn’t enjoy his childhood as he could have. Boy did it take a lot of self-confidence for him to go to Lomilad. It doesn’t seem to have even occurred to him that his skill might keep him back, that it’s not just his father. It seems Lomilad saw right through him. That drill sounds awful but I can see that even though Ithilden is certainly very capable, the signs of arrogance he displays need to be quashed fairly quickly. Thranduil was never going to let Ithilden go ahead and join the novices, even if Lomilad gave him a glowing report. The point is, he deceived the novice master. Ithilden seems to have shown signs of being able to withstand his father’s fury from a young enough age, though! I felt a bit scared just reading it! I remember Eilian telling Legolas that what Thranduil was most angry about was usually what he felt most ashamed of. And if it had been Legolas here, he’d have been in tears of shame by the end of it. But Ithilden is still furious and really seems to think that his father is just wrong. I’m kind of surprised because Ithilden is such an honourable adult but I’ll grudgingly admit that his huge amount of self-confidence isn’t necessarily always a good thing. I actually just feel bad for him because this can’t be an easy memory for him now, being the person he’s become.
I loved the scene between Thranduil and Ithilden. It means so much more to see their relationship contain so much respect when it follows the previous scene. Ithilden is in a difficult position with Sinnarn. Sinnarn doesn’t seem to be ready but he’ll fight against being told to wait. Maybe he needs a difficult blade drill to make him realise he’s not ready ;-) I don’t know. Ithilden is used to telling people what to do, but he needs to maintain a good relationship with his son, without just giving in to keep him happy. I’m really interested to know the outcome of this one! I like that Thranduil offers some thoughts but doesn’t press the matter. The little chat with Alfirin all those years ago must have been very effective! Mostly, though, I just loved seeing Ithilden and Thranduil as two adults who respect and trust each other, speaking as equals. I’m still a little shaken by the flashback!
Right, enough rambling. I’m off to bed. Tomorrow is St. Brigid’s day so we’re having a cross-making workshop and stories. If anyone turns up. I wonder about my job sometimes…
Author's reply
I was thinking good thought about Bram because he's the ancestor of Bard, who killed Smaug and led the people of Esgaroth when their mayor fell apart. Smaug won't be around for a couple of hundred years yet, I believe, and then more time passes before Bard is in action, but still. I thought he came from good stock. I wonder if the formality of their talk helps or hinders them. In a way, you'd think they could just get to it and talk frankly, but if one of them is wishing the other harm, then the formalities kind of keep things cordial. I don't know. Eilian did all right though. He tried to be honest and he appreciated Bram's sense of humor. Lock the guards in the hall! Yes!
I was going to say that when Legolas is just a warrior, he's kind of anonymous to outsiders. But I suppose his fellow warriors always know who he is, and if he is badly behaved, that does reflect on his father. And his identity could be come known at any time to outsiders too. I've written of him as Thranduil's representative only in "Spring Awakenings" (when he goes to the flooded settlement with food) and "Question of Duty."
I don't know what Beliond would do after Sauron is defeated. I think if he were the kind to sail, he's have done it already. He lost an awful lot and stayed in Arda for the Third Age. Of course, he was serving the realm then too, but I think he's attached to Arda. He'd probably go to Ithilien. I think he sees Legolas as a surrogate son. But I believe his family is waiting for him in Valinor. I like to think of all the people there -- Lorellin, Turgon, Galelas, Siondel -- and that they are happy after I killed them off.
I think that Ithilden is sure he's right in that scene with the novice masters. He just can't believe that his parents can't see it. Surely if he provides them with proof, an objective opinion from Lomilad, for instance, they'll see the light and give in. And even when I was writing the chapter, I could feel this disjuncture when I went from the flashback to the "present day" scene between Ithilden and Thranduil. They so respect one another now. For each of them, the other is a friend and confidante. That's an amazing thing, but I guess 600 years of Elven wisdom get you somewhere.
So, crosses are somehow associated with St. Brigid? I rememember learning a song as a kid about 'sweet St. Bride of the yellow hair' but I have no memory of what she represents.
Bodkin
· 31 January 2005
· Chapter 7: Thranduilions
This chapter has thrown up some lovely 'what if' thoughts. What if Eilian and Beliond were somehow out of reach for some reason (maybe they're both on sick leave) and Maltanaur agrees to look after Legolas for a while? That could be really interesting. What if Sinnarn gets sicked onto 'royal duty' for a while in a 'getting to know you' effort with Dale and Esgaroth - in the way that noble families would send offspring to foster for a while with other families of similar rank - so that he does exchange student duty. (And wouldn't Legolas be pig-sick if he was stuck in the safe Eastern Patrol while his nephew got to play with the Men!)
Eilian is doing well on his Men-charming duty. And he will get plenty of fun out of it.
'Eilian stopped about ten feet from Bram and dropped to one knee, as he would have done in his father’s Great Hall. He heard Maltanaur follow suit behind him.'
Very tactful - and completely naturally done, too.
'Bram smiled blandly at him. “I do not think that will be necessary. Lord Eilian and I will be able to manage on our own.” '
So funny - I can just see Bram winding his advisors up. I was glad to see that he was actually capable of pouring wine. Bram and Eilian could really enjoy themselves probing and being tactful for each other - I hope they get plenty of opportunities to 'discuss' the relationship between Dale and the Elves before whatever crisis erupts.
Poor Maltanaur - trying to keep Eilian and Beliond's Legolas-protection instincts under control so that he can guard the King's representative. I hope the night at the inn proves interesting and instructive rather than dangerous. Eilian to charm the King - Legolas to charm the townsfolk. Seems a fair division of labour. It's good to see Beliond and Legolas taking some small steps in their relationship. I suppose thirty years is not long to elves, but the boy will never grow up if he's not allowed to breathe.
Poor Ithilden. He's one whose own nature forced him into growing up far too soon. Although how he expected to get away with that trick I don't know. Obstinacy overcoming sense, I suspect. It's good to see him and his adar in their grown-up relationship - each is, in many ways, the closest the other has to a friend and confidant. And, although it is hard to keep Sinnarn sufficiently sat on, they should listen to Naneth. And, yes, it will depend how they approach it. Not that it will make any difference - forty years on, Sinnarn will still be too irresponsible to be a really reliable warrior.
One of the greatest things about these stories is how they always leave me wanting to know more about all sorts of aspects of character and experience. Good thing you write quickly - there are so many stories to tell!
Author's reply
Stop! Stop! You produce plot bunnies at an alarming rate!
Eilian is doing well in Dale. I think he and Bram might have similar senses of humor -- and wouldn't Thranduil groan if he knew that! Bram got a kick out of shutting the guards out of the room and Eilian was probably yukking up over that too.
Maltanaur has a tough task here, and his natural ally is Legolas, who wants to be left to do his job. Beliond and Eilian both want him tucked safely away, but thank Eru for Maltanaur. We'll see how they do in the inn.
I think you're right about Ithilden. He's not a natural child, in a way. He worries and he wants to do it right and he sees what's coming and wants to prepare for it. He looks at the adults around him and they seem to be just ignoring all this! I absolutely agree that he and Thranduil are friends now, and that says a lot about the kind of person Ithilden grew up to be -- once he was allowed to do it.
esamen
· 31 January 2005
· Chapter 7: Thranduilions
Goodness, that WAS a fast update. Must have flown out of your fingertips!
I like your portrait of Bram. He seems to be a wise and mature person, looking at the situation from a Man's point of view. I like that he is not a flat caricature of a simpleton Man. He seems like a good match for Eilian -- he'll make Eilian work hard and use all his talent during this negotiation, huh? I really liked these lines -- I thought they caught the whole dynamic --
"Bram paused, tapping one finger on the arm of his chair, and studying Eilian’s face. Eilian met his gaze steadily for a long moment. Abruptly Bram rose. “Son of Thranduil, I beg that you will join me in a cup of wine.”
“My lord,” said one of Bram’s advisors, stepping forward hastily, “would you like me to accompany you and your guest?”
Bram smiled blandly at him. “I do not think that will be necessary. Lord Eilian and I will be able to manage on our own.” "
***************************
And I also really like the development between Legolas and Beliond. They are starting to communicate more -- not nearly at the level that we see Eilian and Maltaunar talk in this chapter -- but I see them begin to understand each other. This little moment here was a riot, and I had to hide a chuckle so that I wouldn't insult poor Beliond:
"He turned resolutely to Maltanaur, not wanting to see the outrage on Beliond’s face. Maltanaur was watching them both. Now he looked sideways at Beliond and said a little apologetically, “The inn sounds like a good idea. "
And then, behind your back, I saw Legolas pump a fist and said "Yes!"
*****************
So, I have a question. Beliond mentioned that he hadn't known that Legolas was the one who was taken captive by the Easterlings and beaten. Has Beliond seen Legolas's back? Are the scars still visible? Would Beliond wonder what happened? Did Thranduil not give him Legolas's life story, as a kind of orientation to his new assignment as Legolas's bodyguard? I am curious . . .
Thanks for a beautiful new chapter!
Author's reply
Bram is fun to figure out. This has to be an ancestor of Bard, the archer who killed Smaug, and he's a smart, honorable guy, although probably not a lot of fun at a party. So I was trying to make this ancestor be a worthwhile guy. He seems to have a sense of humor that Eilian can appreciate. They both enjoyed locking the guards out of the room.
It occurred to me that Maltanaur's and Beliond's priorities might conflict in Dale. And really Legolas is right that he's there as an escort for Eilian. The woods are a long way away. But Beliond is not going to be pleased!
I figure that Legolas has no scars. I thought that elven healing would take care of that. What I thought was that the experience was traumatic for Legolas less because of the actual physical injury (although I'm sure that hurt), than because he was assaulted at all. I think he also felt emasculated and he was at a vulnerable age for that. He came through with flying colors but it had to have affected him. When Beliond got Legolas to guard, that incident was 10 years in the past or so, so I thought Thranduil might not have felt it necessary to go into detail.
Glad you liked it. I had it pretty well outlined so it went fast.
French Pony
· 31 January 2005
· Chapter 7: Thranduilions
The sword drill scene turned out well. Of course, now that I've been thinking about that particular drill, with my luck, Mike will decide to have us do that in class tomorrow. But whatever. I get an épée lesson to make up for that.
Sinnarn sounds like the perfect candidate for a gap year. Some people just aren't ready to move on, but they need something distracting to do while they wait. That was why I took a gap year between high school and college. Maybe they could send Sinnarn off to one of the villages to work for a year. . . the Elf version of the Peace Corps or something. Or have him intern with the healers, or something where he would be doing useful work, getting a taste of adult responsibilities without having everyone's life depend on him.
Good old Eilian. Mister Diplomacy. By taking Eilian off alone, King Bram has instantly assured at least one very small Elf-Man alliance -- between all the bodyguards involved, who must have been having a collective litter of kittens outside during that little chat. Of all Thranduil's sons, Eilian is the best master of spin. He knows just what to say, and also what not to mention. Ithilden would feel honor-bound to tell the entire truth about his father, and at this point, Legolas might not even know the whole truth and would make promises on Thranduil's behalf with nothing but the best of intentions. But Eilian can select the nicest bits of the truth and present them with a smile on his face.
It would be interesting to see what happens to Mister Diplomacy after the War. After Legolas leaves, Thranduil will be forced to establish some sort of relationship with Gondor. I can see Eilian showing up to charm the pants off the court in Minas Tirith, and it amuses me greatly.
So Beliond has been firmly overruled. I'm sure he is plotting against Maltanaur even now for backing Legolas up. So they'll stay in the inn. Beliond's mother-hen act will probably do more to convince the common folk that Elves are people than will all of Eilian's wily charm.
Do the Elves use money? Is it the same money that they use in Dale? I find myself wondering how they're going to pay for a night at the inn (surely Legolas realizes that you do have to pay for that), and whether they brought enough cash with them for situations like this. Did Eilian just help himself to a sack of Dale money and dole out whatever everyone needed?
Author's reply
I really grateful to you for sending me that drill and then beta reading that part for me. Your suggestions were all very helpful. It really seemed like an appropriate place for it to turn up. Lomilad almost certainly knew that Ithilden was deceiving him and that drill was guaranteed to hurt. But it was still very realistic too. And I think that you and Ithilden are thinking alike about Sinnarn. The question is what to do about it that won't damage Sinnarn's confidence or Ithilden's relationship with him.
Eilian is indeed good at this particular diplomatic task. He was not so good in dealing with the settlement where Celuwen's father was in charge, but that had other problems for him. Here, he and Bram seem to have similar senses of humor. Lock the guards out! Yes! Ha, ha! And what a good plan for Eilian's future. Celuwen might have gotten to the point by then that she'd be happy to have him out from under her feet once in a while.
If you think too hard about the elven monetary system, your brain pops, so it's best not to. We know some money changed hands. At least I think we do. In The Hobbit, we hear that the men of Esgaroth occasionally quarreled with Thranduil over paying the river tolls he set. I suppose those could have been paid in trade, but money is much more convenient. I'm thinking that this part of the world is like Detroit was when I grew up there. Everyone on both sides of the border took both US and Canadian money and you were almost guaranteed to have a Canadian coin or two in your wallet at any given time.
The Karenator
· 31 January 2005
· Chapter 7: Thranduilions
I'm loving this trip to Dale. It's such a treat to see Eilian and Legolas interacting with men on the men's home turf. Legolas's interest and enthusiasm is such fun.
I like the way you drew King Bram. Just the little things like his deep voice and rather wry sense of humor rounded him out so well. When he and Eilian met alone, I got the feeling that he's not particularly inclined to see the Elves as hostile to Dale, but he's shrewd enough to be cautious and form his own opinion.
Maltanaur was terrific as a room scout. Boy, nothing gets past him. Not only could he tell Legolas and Beliond the exact location of their rooms, but also landmarks to help identify it. He probably also noted the fabric of the draperies and how many throw pillows were on the bed and the approximate cost of the furnishing. Since his wife is not around at the moment, let me express my undying crush on him again.
And then we have Beliond. He's just as appealing in a gruff way. The secretive James Bond of the Elven world. His way of expressing his devotion to Legolas is so different than Maltanaur's way of dealing with Eilian. I can't help but be amused by his fussiness. I'm really looking forward to the common room ruckus of the Inn. Wide-eyed Legolas and hyper-alert (and thoroughly disgruntled) Beliond. Be sure and give Legolas a sip of ale. He's been drinking the good stuff for far too long. He's got to prepare for Gimli in his future.
Ithilden, Ithilden, Ithilden. After I read his little escapade, all I could think of was that he was a miserable failure as a teenage numskull. He just wasn't cut out for it. Legolas and Eilian could pull off the dumb stunt due to teenage logic and it look normal, but poor Ithilden! What was he thinking? Surely he knew his sins would find him out? I imagine he did cringe when he thought about standing in front of his father's desk waiting for the boom to be lowered. He was so hyper-responsible to start with, and then to be caught red-handed... Nope, he wasn't cut out for such bonehead shenanigans. I think for him to be caught being so irresponsible was harder on him than it ever was on either of his brothers. I bet Lorellin was shocked!
Fortunately, you gave us a reminder that he grew up well. The scene with Ithilden and Thranduil was nice and quite comfortable. Their relationship now really is adult to adult. The parenting is over and now Thranduil can just be a friend and advisor...when he's not being king. Very nice.
I'm looking forward to the lifting a cup of ale in the common room. I'm sure all will go smoothly...HA!
Carry on, Karen
Author's reply
I'm having fun with the trip to Dale too. For some reason, it seems like a really fertile ground for stories. And Bram seems to have a sense of humor that's rather like Eilian's. If they knew one another better, they'd have been slapping one another on the back and hoo-hawing at shutting the guards and advisors out. But he's also concerned for his people. He has Dwarves to one side of him, Thranduil on another, and the whole of the east not far away with not much in between except empty space.
I love Maltanaur too. He's affection with Eilian but a good guide for him. When he checked out Eilian's room, he did it right! I thought that his priorities and Beliond's might conflict a little here. But Legolas sees clearly that his duty as a warrior is to be nearby. The fact that that also allows him to stay at an inn AND grind Beliond's face in it is pure coincidence I tell you!
I think that Ithilden is one of those people to whom it's cruel to say "These are the best years of your life" when they're young. And I'm with him on that one. Being an adult is much more fun than being a kid. He's a great adult, and you see that in the respect that Thranduil has for him. But I'm glad I gave him Alfirin. He needed her.
Brazgirl
· 31 January 2005
· Chapter 7: Thranduilions
Poor Beliond. I guess he waited for Maltanaur as an ally when Legolas said he wanted to stay in the inn; and the bodyguard only trapped him!
The conversation between the king and Eilian was very interesting. And I agree with Maltanaur: he will succeed with his charms at the dinner. The things might change if a pretty lady attends too... But he is nervous about his father's judgment about his mission, so I think Eilian will do fine!
Ithilden! That was so surprising! You take the teenagers' mind and how they react so well! He was so believable in that scene... But Thranduil left me curious about what the master said about the crown prince's abilities. Great chapter.
Author's reply
I thought that Beliond's and Maltanaur's priorities might conflict here. Maltanaur wants guards for Eilian nearby, and Beliond wants Legolas safe. But Legolas is right. He's there to be a guard. He has to be able to function as a warrior, even if that means occasional danger.
Eilian wants his father's approval just as much as the other two sons do, and he gets it so seldom, poor guy.
I'm glad you thought Ithilden was believable. He's kind of arrogant, with some good reason really. He's capable. But the whole point of that drill (which French Pony told me about from her fencing class) is that anyone doing it is going to hurt after a while. Lomilad knew what was going on, I think.
Beny
· 31 January 2005
· Chapter 7: Thranduilions
Wonderful story, amazing set, terrific interaction.
I know you never wrote more than 17 chapters, but I wonder if you could possibly... make an exception and prolong this one up to .. may be 50 chapters!
Author's reply
Thank you, Beny. I'm so glad you're enjoying it. You're making me feel good here. :-)
But 50 chapters???? I have a teeny, tiny attention span, and my beta could tell you how much I moaned about the 17 chapter story. This one will be maybe 10 or 11. Something like that.
thechevin
· 31 January 2005
· Chapter 7: Thranduilions
A fascinating look at young Ithilden so Sinnarn does take after his father after all!
And Thranduil very carefully trying to offer advice without interfering
Eilian being a diplomat and doing very well and Legolas getting to spend time at the inn which I am beginning to think is a very bad idea!
This was lovely and showed both the differences between the three brothers and the things that mark them out as Thranduilions and how their father has influenced them
Author's reply
And wouldn't Sinnarn like to know that! In truth though, I think Ithilden's motives for wanting to become a novice were different from Sinnarn's. Ithilden did understand that this was a responsibility, whereas Sinnarn wants what he thinks will be freedom.
Given how little interference Thranduil tolerated in raising his children, he's pushing the line a little here, but he and Ithilden seem to have quite a trusting, respectful relationship now. Quite a contrast to the flashback.
Now the two sons in Dale are digging in for some excitement. We'll see how it goes.
Jay of Lasgalen
· 31 January 2005
· Chapter 7: Thranduilions
So Bram has heard that Thranduil has little respect for men? As Eilian says, the problem with that is that it's true! He has very little time or patience with men as a rule. I love how carefully and diplomatically Eilian skirts the issue.
I would very much like to have seen Maltanaur and Bram's guard outside his office door - were they eyeing one another suspiciously, or commiserating over their wayward charges? Neither seemed happy with the arrangement.
Legolas and Beliond are spending the night in the inn? Great! I can see potential for all sorts of fun there!
And finally, Ithilden. I can't believe that upright, uptight Ithilden tried to trick the novice master into accepting him early against Thranduil's wishes! It doesn't take much wit to work out that he'd find out, and will Not Be Happy.
Great chapter, Daw, and I look forward to the next!
Jay
Author's reply
Eilian is in a hard place here. He needs to be honest if Bram is going to trust him, but he also needs to be careful what he says about or for his father. I think he'd prefer to fight orcs! At least there, his adrenalin can be used up in fighting.
But I thought Bram and Eilian might get along because Bram seems to have a similar sense of humor. He thought shutting the door on the guards was funny. Given that this was Maltanaur and not Beliond, I think he and the guards might recognize their mutual exasperation over the two in the office!
I would guess that that memory of trying to trick Lomilad is not a happy one for Ithilden. He was pretty bull-headed as youth though. And Lomilad knew what was going on too -- hence a drill that would drive whoever was doing it into the ground.
Glad you liked it, Jay.
Bodkin
· 31 January 2005
· Chapter 7: Thranduilions
I will go into detail later, but I just wondered . . . does Thranduil ever have any of these lovely bits of introspection when confronted with his offspring's activities - and remember incidents from his own youth, when he was less wise / mature / authortitative etc and was, instead, busy giving Oropher the whole sullen disobedient obnoxious adolescent treatment? Because, goodness, I would love a Thranduil flashback!!!!
Author's reply
Bodkin, you are an evil woman.
lwarren
· 30 January 2005
· Chapter 7: Thranduilions
Well!!! As my grandmother would say, "Who put that bee in Bram's bonnet?" He is certainly stirred up about something, and obviously someone has been feeding him a whole lot of horse-ummmm...feathers! ;-) Eilian had to very carefully feel his way through that minefield and I think he did a pretty good job, too. Now Bram....there's an interesting fellow...I think maybe he and Eilian have a shared sense of humor, which hopefully will bode well for the coming dinner. Maltanaur - the all-seeing one - I loved his pinpoint locating of their rooms for Legolas and Beliond. That keeper does NOT miss much - what an elf!!!
I am glad Legolas stood up to Beliond about the inn, and he was right...as Eilian's guards they need to stay close in case they are needed. Beliond needs to remember the reason Legolas and he were chosen for this mission....hmmmmm, altho' I guess his first priority is Legolas...now that would pose a real quandry for him (I have a headache just thinking about it!) Anyway, Legolas gets his night in the inn and I hope they don't get too "raucous" in the common room! LOL
Ithilden's little flashback was wonderful! He really put himself in the middle of some deep problems by lying not only to his teacher, but thinking he could pull one on his Adar! As if he could coerce Thranduil into changing his mind by having Lomilad report on his wonderful performance with the sword! Lomilad, of course, probably saw right through Ithilden's little scheme (hence the looonng look when Ithilden told him he was to evaluate his skill), and picked the one exercise guaranteed to really HURT as well as prove a very large point to the boy. A good story about Ithilden and then you show us how he has matured and grown, and how his relationship with his father is now comfortable, adult-to-adult. A great chapter, daw! Now, about that dinner with King Bram...and that inn......... :-)
linda
Author's reply
You're right! Bram and Eilian should get along. They both think that shutting out the guards was funny. Maybe Bram drove his father crazy when he was young. And yeah, Maltanaur is taking no chances that Legolas and Beliond won't know exactly where Eilian is. I love Maltanaur.
I did think that Maltanaur and Beliond might have different priorities here. Maltanaur's is Eilian and Beliond's is Legolas and those two things clash a little. But Legolas is right that his duty is to stay close to Eilian. Besides, that means he gets to stay in the inn. :-)
Yup, Lomilad knew what was going on. He's taught novices for a long time and he knows Ithilden from weapons training. French Pony told me about this drill. She did it in her fencing class, and it did look like one that would hurt no matter how strong you were. If you were someone like Ithilden, you'd just have to do it longer. (I could finish in about three minutes.) And then writing immediately afterwards about Ithilden and Thranduil as grownups did feel very different. That must be a painful memory for someone like Ithilden.
lwarren
· 30 January 2005
· Chapter 6: Dale
It was good to see Maltanaur relaxing in that tree at the beginning, and able to enjoy feeling the life in these trees not affected by Shadow. The conversation with Beliond was enlightening also...Beliond is really very proud of his charge, tho' all said he'd rather be fishing than keeping the King's youngest safe. :-) Too much excitement, too many memories. I guess Thranduil had multiple intentions in assigning him the care of Legolas. Not only was Beliond a capable and wise warrior, but he had been a father, too. A good choice for a keeper. And this would bring Beliond back into contact with other elves...bring him out of that self-imposed loneliness he was in - whether he wanted to or not! :-)
Dale was an exciting place for Legolas (me, too...you really described it well), what with the shops and the carts and the smells and the colors and the bells ("Can't they tell time?" HA!) I enjoyed seeing the town through the eyes of the youngest member of the group. Tavor is a feisty thing, isn't he? He certainly did his best to embarrass the dickens out of Legolas, too! I expect he will be working with his horse later! LOL
I do love the exchanges between Legolas and Beliond - oops, I mean Nana!
:-) And I like how they are "companionable" when they begin their walk through Dale while Eilian is visiting with the King. But I dearly enjoyed the way that juggler challenged Beliond...and the way he picked up the challenge and ran with it (or perhaps juggled it would be a better thing to say)! Way to go, Beliond! Add a little tension with that shopkeeper that looks like one of those bad guys that kidnapped and whipped Legolas before and you have a wonderful chapter just full of interesting moments. Great, as usual, daw! I can't wait to see how Eilian does with King Bram!
linda
Author's reply
Thranduil is a wily old guy to appoint Beliond as Legolas's keeper. I think that Beliond needs Legolas, needs the contact with others that guarding Legolas provides. He also needs to ease up a little though. Legolas has shown himself ready for more independence as a warrior. If he hadn't, Todith wouldn't have sent him as guard. But everyone around Legolas is determined to protect him!
Writing about Dale was fun. It turned out to be a lively place. Actually, I've been intrigued by it since I read about Elrond mourning for "the merry bells" of Dale. And then it's always fun to show a young elf trying to figure out what in the world men think they're doing. Bells to tell time? What will those crazy humans think of next!
I thought about the juggling when we were on vacation early in January and I saw a juggler. He can go in the Dale street scene, I thought, and then I realized that elves might not be impressed. And what elf would be less impressed than Beliond? :-)
Karri
· 30 January 2005
· Chapter 7: Thranduilions
It is entertaining to see Eilian being as charming a diplomatic as he is a ladies’ elf. I am intrigue by Bram’s attitude and look forward to finding out what is up with the Men of Dale. Easterling’s stirring up trouble, perhaps? Maybe a few spies in the midst, spreading lies and discontent (perhaps via spice sellers?)
Author's reply
Eilian is good with people and Bram seems to have an odd sense of humor so maybe the two of them will get along. Bram should be able to see that Eilian is being honest. Eilian was smart to stick to the truth.
Manderly
· 30 January 2005
· Chapter 7: Thranduilions
What an enjoyable chapter - we got to see all three brothers in action, so to speak, though the roles seemed oddly reversed. We got to see Eilian in his diplomatic best and a young Ithilden deceiving Thranduil and saying a line that I have a hard time connecting with the current day Ithilden "You treat me like a child!" Sometimes I forget that Ithilden was young once too. And then there's Legolas who is enjoying the sounds of Beliond sputtering.
I have to say that Eilian is doing a great job and you are showing us a side of him that we see little of. Thranduil really should be quite proud of him though it seems he still has doubts about this second son.
Now I am looking forward to see Legolas and Beliond's stay at the inn. Legolas must be giddy with anticipation and Beliond must be cursing quite steadiy by now.
Author's reply
Sometimes I forget that Ithilden was young once too, so writing these scenes was fun. I think he was young in an Ithilden-ish kind of way. His arrogance (based in his always capable performance) was there already, I think. And so was his devotion to duty. He's not looking for adventure -- he really was thinking about his responsibilities and wanting them NOW. But I'll bet he drove his parents crazy.
Eilian is good with people, which is one reason he's a good captain, one who can take an interest even in Galelas. Diplomacy is a whole different ball game of course, and he's feeling his way along, but I think Bram might like him on a personal level. Eilian knows enough to speak only the truth, although that sometimes means avoiding certain topics.
On to the inn!
Firnsarnien
· 30 January 2005
· Chapter 7: Thranduilions
Oh no, Leggy and Eilian are not sleeping under the same roof. I hope nothing happens! Especially since Leggy and Beliond will be sleeping in that inn. I think subconsciously, Leggy is just looking for some adventure, even if it is trouble!
And that flashback of Ithilden's...wow...he can be manipulative when he wants to, can't he? LOL Kinda makes it hard for him when Sinnarn only wants the same thing he did when he was that age. How the tables have turned. Hmmmm, how does that saying go? You pay for your sins through your children? Yup, I think that's the one all right! I could only imagine what poor Leggy would have to go through if he had any children! LOL
Well, as always, another wonderful chappy! As for Nana Beliond popping an artery, he nearly did when Leggy suggested staying in that inn! LOL Poor him! Wait till the real action starts! He's gonna be popping all his veins too! LOLOLOLOL! :)
Can't wait for the next update, do hurry, will ya? :)
Author's reply
I think Legolas wants to be closer to Eilian AND he wants some adventure. So this is two birds with one stone. What could be better? And added to that, he gets to provoke Beliond, with Maltanaur's help. So take that, Nana!
Ithilden certainly made every effort to get what he wanted. I think that Sinnarn just expects to become a novice because he's the right age. And he would stop having lessons, which he thinks he'd like. What he really wants is more freedom and I'm not sure the novice training is a place to get that.
Glad you liked it, Firnsarnien.
sofia
· 30 January 2005
· Chapter 7: Thranduilions
I did not expect Ithilden to do something like that. But then again if you want something that badly you'll do anything. I can't wait to see what will happen in the inn.
-sofia
Author's reply
It's hard to picture responsible, adult Ithilden as he was 600 years ago when he was an adolescent. He's learned a lot in the intervening years! But I think the kind of flaws he had are consistent with the ultra-responsible person he turned out to be too.