Armariel
· 20 August 2006
· Chapter 2: Marching Orders
"Must I be so diminished?" he demanded, then looked appalled as he heard his own voice.
Hmmm, my sentiments exactly...comes to us all, Saruman! heheh....Actually I was rather expecting Manwe to think, Hmmm, should we be sending this one out? Kind of an arrogant cuss, isn't he? He'll even have to go to the bathroom *shudder* *giggle*
Author's reply
Yes, Saruman has some coming to terms to meet. And I'd imagined his discomfort at having to deal with relieving himself, but had so far managed to avoid writing them. But I think he'd find the process to be most demeaning, don't you?
And I'm certain by this time Manwe has the idea that perhaps sending this one may not be the most auspicious of acts; but, having committed himself, he goes ahead and allows the chips to fall as they do. After all, Iluvatar will be able to bring good even out of what Saruman might intend to be evil....
Endaewen
· 20 August 2006
· Chapter 2: Marching Orders
This is an interesting view of the debates. I am assuming that you've read the section on the Istari in the Unfinished Tales. I was expecting something similar to that, but this wasn't what I was expecting. I'm eagerly looking forward to the next chapters.
Author's reply
Unfinished Tales leaves us SO unaware of how the debates actually happened, it's fun to figure out what might have happened and fill in the gaps.
I hope the rest of the tale continues to keep your interest!
Radbooks
· 20 August 2006
· Chapter 2: Marching Orders
This is a very interesting start to an intriguing story. I like the idea of it and look forward to more of it and to see where you take it.
Author's reply
I hope it continues to remain intriguing as it goes along. And I look forward to your feedback.
Raksha The Demon
· 19 August 2006
· Chapter 2: Marching Orders
I love the image of Curumo trying on different bodies under the supervision of Manwe and Earendil, as if the Lord of the Air and the Mariner were top fashion designers - well, very top!
Quite typical of Curumo to first try a 'masterful', attractive model complete with dashing white armor and a sword.
Interesting idea that the Istari kept their powers, and memories, in their staffs. What would happen if they lost their staffs, or the staffs were broken by natural causes? (maybe some were sent along with Olorin and the others and were kept by the Istari as reserves, in Rivendell or other secure havens?)
Curumo already has much too high an opinion of himself. Though I do feel sorr for his being afflicted with joint pain! Still, I think the Valar must have spared the hands from arthritis; what with Gandalf being an excellent swordsman.
Author's reply
Yes, I too enjoyed the idea of the candidates for this service having to play around with different forms until they came out with one that was just right. And Curumo still hasn't completely grasped the idea that it's not his job to BE masterful in this case.
I see the staff of a wizard being somewhat similar to Sauron's Ring in some ways, for it holds much of what made up the Maia from whom the Wizard came. With the staff withdrawn the wizard would be pretty much limited only to the skills and knowledge he's gained in human form and what little he remembers from his days before accepting the service; and if it were to be broken--I think he'd see it as the end, for to be deprived of that information and power and all would leave him feeling little better than the Men he resembles.
I doubt, however, that the wizard's staff would be easily broken, not having been formed by Manwe of intangible matter such as wisdom, power, and experience.
I was partly inspired by Ian McKellan's comment that he knew all the aches and pains of Gandalf's body in assigning some joint pain. But I agree arthritis of the hands would be a terrible setback for Gandalf particularly, but also for Saruman in his notetaking for his studies.
French Pony
· 19 August 2006
· Chapter 2: Marching Orders
I loved seeing the debate about how the Wizards should look. You get the feeling that they really are creating something new, and that the Valar are a little rusty at that particular skill. It gives a sense of the limits on their power -- they are not, ultimately, the Big Kahuna of Arda. But they make up for it with teamwork and input from lots of different people. That's a lesson that Saruman never does seem to absorb, despite being there and watching how all these people worked together to create his appearance.
Author's reply
Oh, you have hit it directly on the head, French Pony. Yes, teamwork is VERY important now, a fact the Lord of the Valar appreciates, but not the first among the Istari. That indeed in the end leads to his downfall, I think.
Dreamflower
· 19 August 2006
· Chapter 2: Marching Orders
Oh, this grows more and more intriguing! I love the way you incorporate some of what we do know into your speculation, and then develope it into part of the story.
I find it interesting that Manwe suspects Saruman from the first of not having the humility it will take to succeed. And yet he still allows him to volunteer, and to be considered the leader...was this his own idea, or the prompting of Iluvatar?
Looking forward to more!
Author's reply
Very good question as to whether in allowing Curumo his desire to be first among the Istari Manse might have been inspired by the Creator. And I must admit I have no idea! Shall we see as we go along what comes out of this?
Elflingimp
· 19 August 2006
· Chapter 2: Marching Orders
I am really liking this story it is really interesting!
Author's reply
Thank you, Imp. We aims to please! (GRINNING)
Linda Hoyland
· 19 August 2006
· Chapter 1: Debate in Valinor
A different and unique story.I'm interested where you will take this. Have just turned off the other site ads.Thanks for the warning.
Author's reply
Glad you approve of how it begins. Now, if I can just keep it going....
Good luck with keeping viruses off your machine--need to do a system restore on the Dell, and until that's done and I have my blockers and virus checker back in place I am still apparently unable to get my email, which is a royal pain.
French Pony
· 18 August 2006
· Chapter 1: Debate in Valinor
This looks like it'll be good. I like the contrast between the proactive Elves, engaged with and concerned for the world and the future, and the Valar, who seem to have just shut the world out of their minds. The Valar always did strike me as somewhat feckless. The idea that Finarfin and Finrod, two extraordinarily selfless Elves, were the ones to set the wheels turning that eventually led to the Wizards arriving in Middle-earth, is appealing.
Author's reply
Am very glad you approve, French Pony.
The Elves at least have ties in Middle Earth, and relatives of various sorts. I'd think they'd want to see things actually being done to help the inhabitants of the Mortal Lands protect themselves.
Hope the story continues to please.
Queen Galadriel
· 18 August 2006
· Chapter 1: Debate in Valinor
Wow! Oh, how interesting! Now I find I wish I knew more of the Elder Days; for I haven't yet gotten through the Silmarillion, and haven't been able to get some of the others...yet. I really like the characterizations here, especially of the Valar, and even though I don't know all the "Wizards'" true names, it's easy enough to tell that Curumo is Saruman. He doesn't seem a good one to send, even then. Can't wait to see where this is going!
God bless,
Galadriel
Author's reply
The stories of the Maiar that became the Wizards are told almost more in Unfinished Tales than in the Silmarillion, and even there are pretty sketchy. Leaves a lot of room for exploration. Although Tolkien felt Aiwendil was "failed" because he worked more with nature than with those who needed to guard the world against Sauron.
Curumo is a bit of an egotist, I agree. And I fear Vaire has the right of it....
Ellie
· 18 August 2006
· Chapter 1: Debate in Valinor
Interesting justification for who was sent to aide Middle-Earth and why they had to take the form they did. It is also nice to see Finarfin and Finrod together in a story, even if it is just for one chapter. The mention of the test was fascinating as well and speaks much of Galadriel for the fact that when she was faced with it, she saw it for a test and realised that she had passed it.
Author's reply
Galadriel realized she would be tested, but I always got the idea she wasn't fully certain how that test would come.
I felt that her brother and father would be intensely worried for her once they realized Sauron wasn't fully defeated but would be rising again in power, once it was realized the Ring wasn't destroyed; and that messages would be sent to them from Maglor also seemed likely, once he realized he was indeed forever banned from Aman but no more than that. Just what that meant probably didn't fully set in for him until the Last Ship did sail, I think. But having disposed of the last Silmaril and accepted he'd never sail himself, I don't think his repentance would have gone completely without note on the other side, or without appreciation. There is no question he was well and truly punished, having lost most of his family and personal integrity to the vow; and I like to think that eventually he rejoiced to reenter the Presence, even if he never walked again in Tirion.
I like to think that the lords of the remaining Noldor within Aman challenged the Valar themselves to see to it their daughter/sister were not forgotten.
Anonymous
· 18 August 2006
· Chapter 1: Debate in Valinor
Tedicus Dexius Eclectus types:
A promising start on an interesting plot line Larner.
I especially liked the part where you essentially
limit the direct influence of the valar to at most
an internalized guidance counselor. Given the fact that
they seem to exhibit the same drives and desires that are
so much a part of human existence, mixing this with
great magical power invites a recipe for disaster.
They are taking quite a risk in sending more immortal,
magically enhanced beings that have already proven their
corruptibility. At least with a mortal time will solve
the problem eventually.
Looking forward to an interesting one here.
Post on!
Author's reply
Tolkien himself indicated the Valar had removed themselves from actively interfering with the folk of the Mortal Lands save in the most peripheral ways after the tragedy of the War of Wrath; and that they would limit themselves much to becoming the voices of conscience just seems likely.
Yes, they are taking quite a risk, and we already know from the Master's works he felt it was for the most part vain. However, I find myself questioning Tolkien's own evaluation that Radagast also failed because he devoted himself to bird, beasts, and nature rather than counseling the sentient side of the Mortal lands.
Hope it remains interesting. At least it will take the ones sent to fully accustom themselves to their new forms!
Kitty
· 18 August 2006
· Chapter 1: Debate in Valinor
Ah, Larner, that promises to be interesting! I have to admit I had never before considered just *how* it was decided to send the Istari to Arda.
Loved the idea Maglor was able to send messages. Somehow I feel a bit sorry for him, in spite of everything he did, and it is good to know there are some elves who don't dismiss his concerns outright simply because he is a son of Feanor and did a lot of wrong. So I was glad Finarfin refused to be forbidden to use his name. The lord of the Noldor is certainly no coward.
Other than that, Finarfin and Finrod are right. One could say the Valar left things unfinished in Middle-earth after the fall of Angband and it is their duty to change that.
Good that they saw the dangers of the idea, too, and now think about a way to secure the Maia to be sent to Arda can't abuse their power - or at least to secure it as well as possible. We all know it is difficult, and looking at Curume, I am sure there are one or two of the five who will not be overly happy about the restrictions of their new role.
Look forward to know how the others will be chosen, particularly Olórin, of course, and what they will do to make sure they will stay on the right path.
Btw, in some hours I am off to Norway until next Sunday, so please don't think I have abandoned you if I'm not reviewing!
Author's reply
I love seeking to fill gaps, after all, and have felt for a time this one was worth filling. Someone else, in fact, indicated she'd like to see a good part of Saruman's own part of the story.
I, too, felt Maglor deserved some acceptance on that side, having truly expressed his disgust at what Feanor's binding on himself and his sons had wrought. That Finarfin and Finrod would accept his messages and warnings and take them seriously, particularly as Sauron's return would heavily impact on the safety of their daughter/sister and her happiness, just seemed right; and I do believe they'd have challenged the Valar themselves, remembering just how much of their inclusion in the War of Wrath cost everyone.
At least the Valar themselves are learning from past mistakes, and realize they can't go blundering about in the mortal lands once more; and that whatever help they send must be sufficiently controlled it won't destroy more than it helps.
As to the rest of those who go--the choosing of Olorin is the one that, of course, means the most in the end.
Have fun in Norway. Used to live in Ballard in Seattle, surrounded by the sons and daughters of Norway and Sweden--miss it at times, although I do NOT miss living in Seattle, believe me. This story will be posted at a chapter every two-three days, I think, so don't be surprised if it isn't far advanced when you return. I've not written as far ahead of myself as I usually do.
Armariel
· 17 August 2006
· Chapter 1: Debate in Valinor
Oh my goodness.......but where is Gandalf?
Author's reply
I'm not certain all the Maiar would have attended this debate; but he will be approached, believe me. But Curumo isn't likely to find his disguise as much to his liking as he'd thought, I fear.
Raksha The Demon
· 17 August 2006
· Chapter 1: Debate in Valinor
Oooh; this is already interesting! I can't wait to see where you take this story, and how Olorin is chosen, and how the Istari adjust to mortality.
Nice touch that Maglor managed to send a message to the Valar of Middle-earth's need for help against Sauron. Sort of a shame that the Valar had to be prodded into once more cleaning up their own mess; but I guess they were a bit nervous after losing half a continent while defeating Morgoth...
Author's reply
The Valar did at times botch things up as much as anyone else, and being what they were could leave a far worse mess behind them than anyone had imagined.
Am glad to see you are appreciating the story so far, Raksha. Thanks!
Dreamflower
· 17 August 2006
· Chapter 1: Debate in Valinor
Oh, my! Larner--this is very ambitious and intriguing! We see that three have been chosen so far, and that the various limitations are being considered.
I will be eager to see how this plays out--and most curious indeed to see what you do with the blue Wizards.
Fascinating...
Author's reply
The three I will follow most will be, of course, Saruman, Radagast, and Gandalf, for none knows for certain what happened to the two sent of Orome's folk, although Chip of Dale wrote a wonderful story of one of them who ended up in Harad.
The limitations are being considered, and not all will be welcome, particularly by the first of them.