Stirring Rings by Larner
Excelsis · 19 March 2013 · Chapter 35: Rumors of Evil Returning to the Deep Places
Tolkien's love of nature, is of course, inescapable. I wonder what his attitude towards the Industrial Revolution was. From what I gathered from his letters, he seemed to have loved the sime he spent in a small hamlet in Sarehole.
Excelsis · 19 March 2013 · Chapter 35: Rumors of Evil Returning to the Deep Places
Good Heavens! I fear I made a few spelling miatakes like "world", not "word" and sculpture has been spelled in an interesting but incorrect way. It's too bad that my computer doesn't have spell-check. On the whole, I find Storis of Arda to be a good site because there really is quality control and management. I have visited fanfiction.net before, and often what you get there is very silly.
Excelsis · 19 March 2013 · Chapter 35: Rumors of Evil Returning to the Deep Places
I have also always found the failure of the White Council (even including Saruman's intereference) to investigate and to act when they had hundreds of years to do so to be somewhat vexing. Even if the Necromancer had turned out to be a lesser servant of evil, one less Necromancer in the world makes the word a better place.
Excelsis · 19 March 2013 · Chapter 35: Rumors of Evil Returning to the Deep Places
If you like history, especially cultural history, I would also recommend From Dawn to Decadence by Jacques Barzun. A man with wonderfully deep knowledge and a rather engaging style. He chronicles Western cultural history from the Renaissance to the present. As for my own musical tastes, I find Bach to be supreme whereas in painting, I most admire Raphael and i scukpture, Micheangelo.
Excelsis · 19 March 2013 · Chapter 35: Rumors of Evil Returning to the Deep Places
Truly, you have travelled far and wide in the realm of fantasy literature. I used to love the Athurian cycles when I was a child, who, like many others, admired the virtuous knights of the Round Table and the little paradise on Earth created in Camelot. Now however, I find that the this Matter of Britain is too tragic. All the characters in the end (unless I am very much mistaken) meet a tragic fate. I never understood why Merlin continued to teach Nimue his secrets even though he was thoroughly possessed of the foreknowledge that Nimue would betray him. Curses and witchcraft are omnipresent, while the goodness of God seems to be distant. Do you have a favourite character? Mine would be Sir Galahad, who was the purest of them all. Do you have a favourite story? Mine would be the rescue of the lady by Sir Gareth and the Quest for the Holy Grail. If Arthur is tragedy, then Robin Hood can I am sure be considered as comedy. I find that the Chronicles of Narnia is a sweet and very allegorical story, more for children than Tolkien, some of whose scenes can be very dark. Tolkien portrays both absolute or near absolute goodness in the forms of Elves (I grant that a few of them were more susceptible to evil than their peers, but on the whole, the purity of their hearts is without parallel in Middle-earth) as well as absolute evil. I have read Ursula K. LeGuin's Earthsea trilogy and found it to be quite philosophical in vein, but though I enjoyed it, I do not consider it to be the very best in the field. I read L'Engle (A Wrinkle in Time) as a very small child, so sadly did not appreciate much of it. May I presume that your favourite character in The Lord of the Rings is Aragorn? So you are also interested in history and archaelogy and brain mapping and poetry? I used to be quite a history enthusiast, and even now, my family tells me that my understanding of it is vast. I know a lot more about Western history, however, than about Oriental history, mainly because I have always found that tackling the story of China is very difficult. One has to go through 9 major dynasties as well as a myriad of smaller periods. I used to study The Second World War in partucular, and must regret that Britain and France made enough major mistakes during the 1930s to allow for German victory in 1940. I am also very interested (I think I'm overusing this word) in neuroscience. The brain is the most fascinating and complex piece of matter in the universe, and if we can understand it, then humanity would be able to realise its true potential. Have you travelled much for archealogical purposes? I have visited the Louvre and the British Museum (Elgin marbles) as well as many Italian museums but have never been on-site, though I wish to go to Greece one day. What style of poetry do you like? Just to list one example, there is a passage attributed by George Eliot to Alfred de Musset which is strikingly beautiful. Nous causames longtemps; elle etait simple et bonne. Ne sachant pas le mal, elle faisait le bien; Des richesses du coeur elle me fit l'aumone, Et tout en ecoutant comme le coeur se donne, Sans oser y penser je lui donnai le mien; Elle emporta ma vie, et n'en sut jamais rien. Which means: "We talked for a long time; she was simple and kind. Knowing no evil, she did only good: She gave me alms from the riches of her heart, And listening intently as she poured out her heart, Scarcely daring to think, I gave her mine; Thus she carried off my life, and never even knew it." I also loved some passages in Paradise Lost, the most poignant scene for me being the departure of Adam and Eve and their vow to support each other in the wilderness. And of course, what plays do you like? Since you like poetry, do you like novels as well? If you do, then I would seriously recommend Middlemarch, by George Eliot, which I believe to be of the greatest novels ever writtn. Virginia Woolf described it as one of the few novels written for grown-ups. And what about music and painting? Since we have much time to discuss, I shall end this rather long message here. Hope to hear from you soon!
Excelsis · 17 March 2013 · Chapter 35: Rumors of Evil Returning to the Deep Places
To expand the discussion still further, are you familiar with the Greek, Egyptian, Norse, etc myths?
Author's reply
When I say that I grew up reading mythology, I mean ALL myths. I started with Greek and Roman mythology, both of which are heavily featured in Bullfinch's. He also covers Norse mythology, and covers both the Charlemagne and Arthurian cycles as well. My mother began getting me more books of myths and legends, which expanded on the Norse and introduced me to Persian myths and legends. As I said, I read a good deal of Pyle's works, which got heavily into Arthur and Robin Hood. I have probably forty or so treatments of Arthur, ranging from Tolkien's own translation of Gawain and the Green Knight to Steinbeck's book of Arthurian Legends, also of course including Stewart's and Bradley's and T.H. White. The most realistic treatment of Arthur, however, is probably Sutcliff's "Sword at Sunset." I have a very extensive personal library, and much of it is focused on my many obsessions, including myths, legends, fantasy, fairy, and folk tales. MacDonald's "The Light Princess" was my favorite fairy tale when I was growing up, and I have two collections of his shorter works for children. I read Martin's first three books when they were first published over fifteen years ago, and predicted then that he would end up being seen as Tolkien's most influential successor. His works are highly literate, original, and full of wonderful characterizations and gripping story-telling. I stopped reading the Shannara series with the first book--Brookes ripped of Tolkien big-time in writing "The Sword of Shannara," and I lost respect for him immediately, although I did enjoy "Magic Kingdom for Sale." I can't begin to name all my favorite fantasy writers, and I bless Tolkien for his influence in finally convincing publishers that the common belief held up through the sixties that adults didn't read fantasy was false. Ace and Avon were the first publishers to begin publishing fantasy for adults as its own genre, and it was interesting that among the first books Ace published were the works of Merritt, who wrote originally in the thirties, forties, and early fifties, and whose works were first disguised as science fiction and so on. "The Ship of Ishtar" was first presented by Ace as a mystery, for Pete's sake, and it's based on ancient Babylonian mythology!
Excelsis · 17 March 2013 · Chapter 35: Rumors of Evil Returning to the Deep Places
And on the subject of admiration, it must be the worst possible thing to choose as your penname Deo, or Eru Iluvatar!
Excelsis · 17 March 2013 · Chapter 35: Rumors of Evil Returning to the Deep Places
To ensure that I am not believed to be arrogant, my pen name, Excelsis, comes from the fact that I like the phrase "Gloria in Excelsis Deo". I've always been a little saddened by Valarin passivity with regards to Middle-earth, but I suppose it reflects Tolkien's view that mortals must do the work of defeating evil by their own free will instead of relying on divine aid.
Author's reply
If you've read the works of Orson Scott Card, you may find the origin of my penname. Heh! Am rereading one of the relevant works right now, in fact.
Excelsis · 17 March 2013 · Chapter 35: Rumors of Evil Returning to the Deep Places
I also wonder if you have read some of the more modern fantasy books. There is quite a litary of them, and one almost does not know which one to read. There is, however, A Game of Thrones which is relatively famous. Have you read that?
Excelsis · 17 March 2013 · Chapter 35: Rumors of Evil Returning to the Deep Places
And speaking of fantasy, have you read C.S. Lewis and George MacDonald? MacDonald was an influence on Tolkien. Oscar Wilde (I believe, or I am very much mistaken) also wrote good fantasy works.
Author's reply
I was reading Lewis's Christian apologist writing in the sixties when in junior and senior high, and first read his space trilogy at the age of sixteen. My favorite fictional work by him is "Till We Have Faces," and "Perelandra" is my second favorite. I didn't read the Narnia books until I was getting ready to start college in 1968, however. Have almost everything Wilde wrote, including a collection of his fairy tales and all of his plays. (Drama is another obsession.) Terry Pratchett and Terry Goodkind are two of my favorite male fantasy authors besides Merritt and Tolkien, although I sort of got off the Sword of Truth books with his ninth novel. Poul Andersen and his wife based a good many of their books on legends from a variety of sources, as have a good many other science fiction and fantasy writers for both children and adults. So, yes, I do read fantasy books of many stripes, and am a bit of sucker for a good treatment of the Arthurian legends in particular. Le Guin, L'Engle, Hobbs, Elliot, McKillip, Lackey, Kurtz, Kay, Funke, Boston, Eager--the list of authors I have read and admire is endless. I also have a large library on the Holocaust, on archaeology, on true crime, history, brain mapping, history of scientific and technological breakthroughs, poetry, religion, and educational issues as well as specific works associated with special education, visual disabilities, autism, dyslexia, and so on. Rosemary Sutcliff is a heavy influence on my own writing style, I think. And if you will read "Lesser Rings" you will find out how much I admire ancient Egypt. And if you read "Murder Most Foul" you will find out how I've kept up with true crime.
Excelsis · 17 March 2013 · Chapter 35: Rumors of Evil Returning to the Deep Places
I see. Thanks for sharing some of your personal literary history. As for myself, I was lost when I stumbled upon the Elves, and became quite obssessed with them. I still love them, and am rather sad that not more people can share their virtues.
Dreamflower · 16 March 2013 · Chapter 35: Rumors of Evil Returning to the Deep Places
Gollum's exile begins. The evidence of his treachery was horrible and pathetic and damning. I love Gandalf ousting the Nazgul; he is still an Istari, and the Ring-wraiths are still only Men in their origin! And now the Orcs are starting to gather their strength. Less than half a millenia now until we catch up to "current events"! How long will you continue? Will you stop at the Quest for Erebor, or will you continue to the beginning of the War of the Ring?
Author's reply
We are fast approaching the wars between the Dwarves and the orcs and the dreadful attack on Celebrian, and I like to believe there was an agenda behind that particular abduction and the attack on Nimrodel's party. I figured that if Gandalf would seek to deny a Balrog the right to cross the Bridge of Khazad-dum, he would undoubtedly have been willing to do so with a Nazgul. As you noted, they were, after all, merely wraiths twisted from Men. And Smeagol is rapidly devolving to Gollum now. How far will I go? Oh, the ending few chapters have literally been written for years--it's those pesky middle chapters that have stymied me. The ending goes beyond the Ring War, tying up a particular thread from the beginning of this story. Heh!
Sunny · 15 March 2013 · Chapter 35: Rumors of Evil Returning to the Deep Places
And so Gollum sets out to find some hole where he can hide from the light of day - and incidentally also keep the Ring hidden from Sauron until Bilbo stumbles over it on his journey.
Author's reply
Indeed, Sunny. Even his desire to hide from the truth of his own history he equates with being in sun- or moonlight ends up working to Sauron's despite!
Excelsis · 15 March 2013 · Chapter 35: Rumors of Evil Returning to the Deep Places
Or to ask my previous question more prosaically, why do you like J.R.R. Tolkien?
Author's reply
Correction--Howard Pyle, not Pine. Oh, good grief!
Excelsis · 15 March 2013 · Chapter 35: Rumors of Evil Returning to the Deep Places
What an admirable piece of speculative fiction for J.R.R. Tolkien's universe. Very well done indeed! My curiosity elicited, what drew you to the Lord of the Rings in the first place?
Author's reply
Thank you, Excelsis. I became enamored of myths, legends, and fantasy aimed at adults while still in grade school, growing up on Bullfinch's Mythology, "The Golden Bough," and the works of Howard Pine. I was introduced to the work of Abraham Merritt by my mother while in sixth grade. I had literally worn out two copies of "The Ship of Ishtar" belonging to my mother (I have three copies now!) and had been bugging our city librarian about the copy the library owned but that evidently someone else had appropriated, and one day she said, "Well, if you appreciate Merritt at your age, you should like this and the books associated with it," and she handed me "The Fellowship of the Ring." I was lost once we got to the Party. Once I got hold of "The Return of the King" and saw the appendices I knew Tolkien and I were truly kindred spirits, as my own personal alternate universe story also has a heck of a backstory. Everyone in Tolkien's work is equally capable of becoming the greatest of heroes or the worst of villains, so one can truly identify with his characters. I loved the combination of knight errant and Sacred King Aragorn embodies and that Frodo becomes the Wounded King. And EVERYBODY loves Faramir! And how dearly I wanted Gandalf in my life. I've reread the books at least annually since I was thirteen-fourteen, and the PJ movies reawoke the original obsession. I started reading fanfiction in 2003, posted my first story in 2005, and there you have it. I hope this answers your question.
Tari · 14 March 2013 · Chapter 34: Galadriel Calls for a Council
It appears Radagast is wiser that Saruman might have liked. Even now Saruman seems to be drifting to Sauron's side. The ring is taking Smeagol over already. His strange manner of speaking should alert his grandmother that something is not right.
Author's reply
I so agree, Tari. Saruman has so hard a time accepting that he is less than he could be, and perhaps subconsciously realizes that it's true anyway. His envy of Gandalf is definitely growing greater. And the Grandmother is already closing her eyes to what she knows in the depths of her heart. Yes, Gollum is already losing himself!
Tari · 11 December 2012 · Chapter 34: Galadriel Calls for a Council
The transformation of Sméagol has begun. Surely his grandmother sees the difference in him. Soon he will be cast out to fend for himself; all for the ownerhip of a ring which will lead him to his doom.
Author's reply
Oh, yes, Smeagol is already on the way to becoming Gollum. He thinks he has such a treasure when in reality it has caught him!
Dreamflower · 6 December 2012 · Chapter 34: Galadriel Calls for a Council
Saruman is certainly doing his very best to lead the rest of the Council astray! And now we are getting closer to the events of the Quest for Erebor...
Author's reply
He's refusing to give the devil his due recognition. Could it be because he's actually frightened to face Sauron himself? Thanks so, Dreamflower!
Tari · 5 December 2012 · Chapter 33: The Return of the Shadow
I'm finally up to date in my reading. Sméagol has entered the picture, has he? It will be interesting to see what mischief he gets into before his final downfall. Perhaps his grandmother has an idea there is something evil within him. I shall have to wait for future chapters to find out..
Author's reply
And just as you get up-to-date I managed to get the next chapter posted! Yes, Smeagol has indeed entered the picture, and from now on we are entering known territory. It's been a very stressful last month for me--thanks for your patience!
Tari · 28 November 2012 · Chapter 31: Seeking to Answer Questions of Identity
Each chapter is more gripping than the previous. How are you able to maintain the momentum? This is an excellect story. I fear I am almost to the end.
Agape4Gondor · 31 October 2012 · Chapter 23: The Deep Breath Before the Plunge
Wow. What a horrid mess. I loved seeing Firiel. And it was fun to be present when the Baggins name came into being.
Author's reply
Am so glad you enjoyed seeing Firiel here, for I feel she was important to both kingdoms. Certainly it was through her that the two lineages of Elendil's sons were reunited, making the descendants of Firiel and Arvedui the rightful heirs to both kingdoms. And I love looking at how the various names must have changed over the centuries. Thanks so much for continuing to read, Agape!
Sunny · 31 October 2012 · Chapter 33: The Return of the Shadow
Your view of the ends of Alatar and Pallando are interesting. It certainly fits in well enough with the rest of your writings. So clearly they did not fall, as did Saruman. Neither were they successful in their task, as was Gandalf. At a guess, I'd say they were rather less successful than they could have been, since I'd guess they took Saruman's advice when they arrived in Middle-Earth, and we all know how he ended up. When Pallando was taken prisoner, he laid aside his staff, which held his power, and his captors destroyed it. Which meant that Sauron wouldn't be able to get it either. From your description it is clear that while Pallando was successful enough that he was welcomed back into the West, though the highest honors went to Gandalf, of course. And now Sméagol enters the scene...
Author's reply
We don't know from the Master's own writings what happened to the Blue Wizards, so all I can do is speculate. I doubt any of the other four fell as far as did Saruman, so I suspect that what was dross in Pallando, Alatar, and Radagast was always to be burned away and their basic good natures welcomed back to the presence of the Valar. And, yes, we see Smeagol developing into what he must one day be. Thanks so, Sunny! Fiondil came through the hurricane unscathed, thank heavens. Now, to see what repairs will need to be made.
Dreamflower · 30 October 2012 · Chapter 33: The Return of the Shadow
You are filling in quite a LOT of gaps in this chapter! An interesting idea about the end of Pallando and Alatar; I would love to know more of what they had been up to between their arrival in the East and their final fates. And so now we meet a young Smeagol, already interested in things that are better left alone. Now we have only a little over 500 years until you catch up to the events of the Quest for Erebor...
Author's reply
I indicated in an earlier chapter that one warlord of an Eastern land had captured someone who disappeared when he broke the prisoner's staff, so decided that perhaps such a thing might have happened also to the other Blue Wizard. But I've rather left the actions of the Blue Wizards to the likes of Pandemoneum, I suppose. Yes, Smeagol is showing already his proclivity for curiosity, although it's nowhere as disciplined, I suspect, as Bilbo and Frodo's managed to end up. And we are indeed into those crucial last five hundred years.... Thanks so, Dreamflower! And I rejoice that Fiondil's portion of the country wasn't as badly hit as were New York City, Philadelphia, and other parts of the northeast coast.
Tari · 17 October 2012 · Chapter 24: The Siege of Fornost
This was a difficult chapter to read. What a horrible battle, but aren't they all horrible. My heart broke when I read what happened to Marco. How very, very sad. He was a true hero.
Author's reply
We know that those who marched out to support Arvedui did not return, and hard as it is to do, I have to address this. Yes, Marco was a true hero, one to whom much was owed. But I sincerely doubt that Angmar would have been merciful to one such as he, not even as small, helpless, and endearing as a Hobbit is capable of appearing. Indeed, it must have given the Witch-king particular satisfaction to "punish" him for his temerity in standing with the King of Men of the North. But I am certain that the Hobbits must have stymied him from the first, and I doubt he would begin to appreciate just how spiritually strong they were.
Sunny · 11 October 2012 · Chapter 32: The Watchful Peace
I see that Ozymandias has sneaked into Arda! ;) Now I see that Saruman is paying the price of not having made a habit of sifting through the memories contained within his staff. Here he is twice confronted with the fact that very much of what he once had been has slipped away from him. I don't think he is going to change his habit, though, even though he promises himself that he is going to mend his ways Real Soon now...
Author's reply
I found that there needed to be some concrete reason for Sauron to have fled as he did. Perhaps he had his own encounters with Ozimandus the Numenorean to recall, seeing too much of his darkest nature reflected within this Elf-friend's eyes, and that is why he agrees to flee now. I suspect this was the memory passed on by the Witch-king to his brethren among the Wraiths. And Saruman has reason to be concerned, although I suspect you are all too right--he's out of the habit of sifting those memories, and it will take actual exercise to bring that habit back.... Thanks so, Sunny!