harrowcat
· 21 January 2009
· Chapter 8: On Plans for Weapons
Oh my! This is such a brilliant chapter on so many levels.
I love that the Dwarves have a hand in the re-forging and I really want to see more of that.
You did it again to me! Gave me that shiver of glee when you opened my eyes to the three offerings of the ring. I have often pondered on why Tolkien chose these three to be confronted by the offer and why not Elrond as another ringbearer or even Cirdan. I think that there might be something in history. After all, Elrond was present when the ring should have gone into the fire the first time. Perhaps his rejection of It happened at that time.
And I like the developing relationship between Boromir and Aragorn. Poor Boromir, the ring is already at work on the Fellowship.
Author's reply
It will take some time to get all ready to reforge Narsil into Anduril, of course. The idea that Elrond's presence when Isildur refused his advice and did not dispose of the Ring way back then was in its way his refusal of It is an excellent one; he does not need to be tried again.
Frodo offered the Ring to the Grey Wizard, the Lady of Lothlorien, and the still-hidden King of Men; it was never offered to any among Dwarves, I've noted.
Aragorn and Boromir appear to have done fairly well together, although they never came to rivalry in Gondor's wars, as Faramir was to note. I would hope in time Boromir did come to think in his heart, "My brother; my captain, my king" as happened in the films, even if we do not see it in the books.
And there is no question that the idea of the Ring at least has caught Boromir, poor Man.
Thanks so, Harrowcat!
Antane
· 21 January 2009
· Chapter 8: On Plans for Weapons
When Gandalf said his heart almost stopped when Frodo embraced his vocation at the council, I think of the scene in the movie when Gandalf closes his eyes for a moment in pain and grief but then realizes it is all meant to be. I think one of the most appealing things about Aragorn is that he has all for all his adult life been a servant: Ranger, helping Gandalf track Gollum, guiding four frightened hobbits to Rivendell and on the Quest, helping at Helm's Deep, entering Minas Tirith first as healer. One does not doubt he would remain a servant as king for he knows Whose servant he is. I love that he pledges himself to Frodo. Interesting that it is seen that the Ring will be offered to a third and that Boromir overheard that and think it could be him.
Namarie, God bless, Antane :)-
Author's reply
I think learning Aragorn had bound himself to Frodo was in its way as heart-stopping as Frodo accepting his role as the Ringbearer. Each is doing something that both is perfectly in character for the individual, and yet totally out of key with their usual roles in the world, Frodo as a quiet-loving Hobbit of the Shire, devoted to living life and eating, Aragorn as the future High King of Men. But as you note, Aragorn knows well that truth taught us by Jesus--that he who would be the greatest must be as the servant of all.
And Boromir being Boromir, does tend at this point to think it's all about him....
Sorry to be so delayed--this past week has been very busy, I've found. Thanks so for your patience, and to all those who were patient this past week.
Kitty
· 21 January 2009
· Chapter 8: On Plans for Weapons
Elladan and Elrohir have to be rather confusing for someone who doesn’t know that there are twins *grin* Not to mention Aragorn’s many names.
Glad to see how much Gandalf worried about Frodo and Bilbo.
Ah, that’s an idea, to have Glóin and Gimli involved in the reforging of Narsil! It seems somehow right that Dwarves had a hand in the reforging. And it was interesting to follow that discussion. Would never have thought of using blood in that; I can understand why Aragorn was uncomfortable with that.
And of course, now I wonder if Gimli recalled that bit with the three hairs when he asked the same of Galadriel!
The end made me sighing; it’s so obvious that the Ring had started to work his way to Boromir even back then. Oh Boromir, you have no real idea what a dangerous weapon you covet!
Author's reply
Oh Kitty, I do agree that the identical twin sons of Elrond and Celebrian must have confused several over the years! And Aragorn's many names and titles could be the subject of a thesis, I think! Heh!
The thought that Bilbo might have insisted on taking the Ring back and the strife that could cause between Bilbo and Frodo, not to mention the rest of Middle Earth, must have frightened far more than just Gandalf.
The whole subject of the reforging of Narsil must have fascinated the Dwarves as much as it did the smiths of Imladris and the folk of the Northern Dunedain. The Elves' day is over, and even the Dwarves face their final diminishing, as is true also of the Hobbits. And so each in people in its own way contributes to the reforging of this blade intended to be wielded by the greatest of Men.
Gimli asked but a single hair of Galadriel, and she gave him the three hairs she'd refused her cousin Feanor way back in the days before the Noldor left Aman. And so three hairs and three drops of blood are used to counter the dark blood magic of the Enemy's folks.
And whether due to the active influence of the Ring or the imaginations of his own heart we don't yet know; but there's no question that from his introduction into the story Boromir was already seeing the Ring as something that could be used for the defeat of the Enemy. You are so correct as to him not appreciating the nature of that which he covets!
Thanks so! I know it's taken time again, but this week has been a long and complicated one.
Celeritas
· 21 January 2009
· Chapter 8: On Plans for Weapons
The discussion of the weapon (runes and blood magic and technicalities were geektastic) laced with Mithrandir's and Elrond's more serious discussion was really well handled. That line there at the end, though... can't help but worry about Boromir!
Another great chapter; thanks!
Author's reply
Am so glad you liked the discussion of the magic used to empower Narsil and needed to reempower the blade to be born of its reforging as well. I would think that in this case some form of blood magic, but for good intent rather than evil, would be invoked. Meanwhile Gandalf and Elrond have their own concerns, and Boromir is allowed to be aware of them.
We know from the Council itself that Boromir was already drawn by the Ring, although it's impossible to know for certain whether it's more due to the Ring's influence or Boromir's imaginations, insecurities, and ambitions. Probably a combination of both.
Thanks so very much. Now to finish the other stories I've been working on!
Linda Hoyland
· 20 January 2009
· Chapter 8: On Plans for Weapons
I loved the idea of Dwarves helping to reforge Narsil and the magic.I love this compelling story!
Author's reply
As Narsil was originally forged by a Dwarf, I think the Dwarves have a vested interest in seeing it renewed, don't you? We know that runes of protection were commonly put on swords, and the sheath that was made for Anduril was supposed to protect it from breaking again. That there would have been some kind of magic in the process seems likely, although I suspect Aragorn wasn't hot on the idea of blood magic being used.
Thanks so, Linda!
Linda Hoyland
· 20 January 2009
· Chapter 7: Lessons in History
I think I can see the seeds of Boromir's downfall here.A great chapter.
Author's reply
Unfortunately, we see those seeds right in the Council itself when he questions why the Ring must be destroyed. Thanks so!
Agape4Gondor
· 20 January 2009
· Chapter 8: On Plans for Weapons
'an accent that struck Boromir as being somehow more pure than that of his own people' OAs always - some of your phrases just strike me - this one made me smile almost sadly.
Oh my! I loved this - 'Aragorn paused uncertainly, sharing a long look first with the Elf Elladan and then with Lord Elrond, and finally with Lord Glorfindel. At last he said to the room at large, “I do not usually hold with blood magic.'
OK - all I can say is - YIKES - - 'If the third offer foreseen by Lord Elrond should be to Boromir himself--what could he do with such a weapon? He found he did not covet the sword destined to be reforged for Aragorn son of Arathorn. It was a far different weapon he imagined himself--perhaps--wielding.'
Author's reply
To hear Sindarin in Imladris itself must have been quite an experience for one who's lived in a land that's had little if anything to do with Elves for the last how many years.
We can strongly suspect that the magic Sauron had used for the last thousand years had a heavy blood and death component to it for him to earn the title the Necromancer, and I suspect most of those who felt themselves aligned with the Light would find almost any form of blood magic, no matter what the purpose, to be repulsive. This must have been difficult for Aragorn.
Whether or not Boromir was himself hearing the Ring's call in Rivendell we don't know; but we do know he was thinking about using it during the Council itself. So, whether it's the Ring or just his imagination, he's already primed for the Ring's blandishments, I'd think.
Thanks so for the feedback, Agape!
Dreamflower
· 20 January 2009
· Chapter 8: On Plans for Weapons
Oh mercy, poor Boromir. He is gaining much knowledge, but his real ignorance of the Ring's power is what is leaving him vulnerable.
I like the look at a possible way that Narsil was reforged to form Anduril--very likely.
Author's reply
I agree about Boromir. In this case ignorance is not bliss! All too vulnerable!
As Narsil was first forged by the greatest Dwarf smith of all, I'd think that those in Gloin's party would want a good look at it, don't you? And they ought to have been at least consulted on how it ought to be done!
Thanks so much, Dreamflower.
6336
· 20 January 2009
· Chapter 8: On Plans for Weapons
So, already the Ring weaves its spell on Boromir!
Very pleased you have them taking several weeks to reforge the sword, so many tales have it taking a few days at most, even the movie had them pounding the pieces back together, which would not have worked!
More please,
Lynda
Author's reply
Oh, yes--It is already at work, or perhaps merely his imagination is at work. We don't really know as yet. He's had to have heard about it before, and already has thought of it as a weapon that could possibly be used against the Enemy--we know that from the Council, after all. And at times an imagination can be our worst enemy when it's too unbridled.
I would think that the sword would take time to reforge--and I know from my research it couldn't be just pounded together--nice image, but it makes for a brittle piece of work, I think.
I'll keep updating as I can.
Thanks for the feedback, Lynda.
shirebound
· 20 January 2009
· Chapter 8: On Plans for Weapons
How fascinating to see the shards through the eyes of the Dwarves.
Author's reply
I agree, Shirebound! It must have been like a modern artist able to see the Pieta in person!
grumpy
· 11 January 2009
· Chapter 7: Lessons in History
Huh, I can just see the elves of Rivendale, cleaning like crazy before all the guests get there, and wondering why Elrond invited so many. Sort of like me before Xmas, throwing all the odds and ends in a laundy basket and shoving it in a closet.
Author's reply
Now you have me giggling! Heh! Yes, all these guests show up at the same time, and where will we put them all?
Thanks for the laugh as well as the feedback.
Raksha The Demon
· 4 January 2009
· Chapter 7: Lessons in History
A riveting chapter; with excellent Aragorn/Boromir dialogue. Of course Boromir would welcome the Sword of Elendil's coming to Gondor more than its current bearer, but that may change.
Author's reply
Thank you so, Raksha. I wish Tolkien had given us more detail on the interaction of these two on the quest.
Antane
· 4 January 2009
· Chapter 7: Lessons in History
"My brother, my captain, my king" - it's one of my favorite lines from the movie - so heartfelt, a loving tribute.
Love also the talk between the hobbits - how Frodo needs some time to digest it all, to what he has committed himself to and what Sam has committed himself to by being committed to Frodo and Merry wanting to know before Pippin does so he can shield his cousin.
Namarie, God bless, Antane :)
Author's reply
We don't know Boromir didn't think this at the end; we do know he charged Aragorn to save his and and people.
And I'd think a person such as Frodo would have wanted some privacy to consider what he'd just committed himself to before confronting his friends and companions, but that they would have denied him that luxury.
Soledad
· 4 January 2009
· Chapter 5: Folk out of Legend
Gah, I'm so much behind everything. Sorry. Poor, confused Boromir. I wonder if he'll ever learn who Glorfindel actually is.
I loved the apperarance of Elladan. That braided-with-silver-beads hairdo must have looked absolutely gorgeous on him. Yeah, I'm that shallow. But if you'd have read my Boromir series, you'd know why it impressed me so much. ;)
Author's reply
No--hadn't read the Boromir series as yet! But the sight of these two identical twins must have confused poor Boromir at first! Heh!
I think he'll learn before he must leave who Glorfindel is--and was; now, to realize that a fellowship is being formed and his own place in it, and the reasons for it. And I certainly appreciate being behind, believe me!
Agape4Gondor
· 4 January 2009
· Chapter 7: Lessons in History
Oh I loved the beginning of this - the quick history of the Men of Dale - and Boromir having met one of her lords before. Very nice indeed.
I do like Lord Blyn too - very skillful with words and his passion shines forth. He really is a stalwart man himself and open-minded, which is nice to see.
I love the repartee between Sam and Frodo - the voices sound perfect. Sam's true understanding of what he would find if he went home now - and the total lack of support from the Hobbits of the Shire. Sadly.
Merry and Pip coming was splendid - though I shivered myself when Frodo told them he was going to Mordor...
Oh! I loved this line - 'Boromir obeyed as automatically as if it were his father who’d looked at him so.'
Oh my! These are lovely little lines - one sure to break the heart of a lover of Men - 'The northern Chieftain gave him a particularly gentle smile, one that somehow reminded him not of his father but of his mother--and younger brother.'
May I say a double Oh my! - You are killing me with this tale - beautiful. 'And Boromir realized just whose hand it had been that had eased the way of that unknown Man to death rather than eternal enslavement to the Lord of Evil. He shuddered, understanding a portion of the grief he saw in this Man’s eyes.'
Phew! The discourse between Boromir and Aragorn was hard to read - so much said by The Dunadan....
Excellent chapter - as they all have been. You do not disappoint your readers, fair Larner! Thank you for sharing this with us.
Author's reply
Dale must have reached out to other trading partners besides Esgaroth, and probably served as an intermediary for the folk of the Lonely Mountain as well. It's probable that they did seek some trade with Gondor, at least. Lord Blyn I've introduced before in "The Acceptable Sacrifice," where he becomes Bard the Second's seneschal as well as proving husband to Bard's cousin. It made sense to me that such a person would be sent by the court of Dale to Rivendell with Gloin; and I can't see the folk of Dale willingly giving up news to the Nazgul of Bilbo and the Shire without having such a consultation.
It's been made clear to us that the Hobbits of the Shire distrust those who've gone outside it, and that they tend to choose to disbelieve "news from Bree" as being probably untrustworthy precisely because it's literally outlandish. And we know those west of the Brandywine tend to see those east of it as being strange and flighty. Even Paladin would be likely to think twice of such news, even if at this point it were to be delivered by his son.
I've often pondered what that first conversation between Frodo on one side and Merry and Pippin on the other must have been like--it's unlikely they would have immediately welcomed the news Frodo had just pledged his life a second time when he'd nearly been lost just getting to Rivendell. And the news of his ultimate destination, spoken so baldly must have left them speechless. By now they know it's not just a fabled place, but a real one; and to think of one they love pledged to go there....
As for the conversation between Boromir and Aragorn--he now knows Aragorn's name, designation, lineage, and purpose. Now it is time to truly learn more of the Man--one who has been a warrior in several lands, one who is knowledgable and capable and who has long exercised command and to whom it is as native as it is to his father--if not moreso. I doubt that Aragorn would come right out and say, "I'm coming to Gondor and will see it freed of the Enemy's threats, and then intend to take the Winged Crown as my own, no matter whether your father and you agree or not"; I think he'd leave more of it to Boromir's own consideration and imagination at this point.
Anyway, thanks so much for the long and detailed response, Agape! Now, to read your latest chapter! Hope the connection is open at work! Heh!
Dreamflower
· 4 January 2009
· Chapter 7: Lessons in History
An interesting chapter. I've often thought of writing a little gapfiller about Merry and Pippin finding out about Frodo's news--I think you showed their reactions very well!
And I really enjoyed the conversation between Boromir and Aragorn here. Boromir is learning a good deal about the rest of the world--Gondor in some ways has been very nearly as isolated as the Shire, though in different ways.
Author's reply
I'd love to see your take on this, myself. That Merry would be trying to protect Pippin even then while Pippin's sharp Hobbit ears would pick up on the knowledge that Frodo was NOT going home but on just seemed so likely, from what Tolkien tells us of them and from what we can deduce from their relationship. And considering that Frodo had just awakened the previous day from two and a half weeks of critical, sorcerous injury, I'd think that their original reactions would have been decidedly negative!
Gondor appears to have had very little interaction with races other than Men since the loss of Amroth and Niphrodel; and what awareness most within the southern realm would have of Elves is questionable--other than some near the Elven Havens west of the mouths of the Anduin, how many Gondorians would have any interaction at all with Elves, do you think? Yes, isolated save in trade and war with most lands other than Rohan. And even in trade, they appear to have relied more on internal trade or trade in spite of war with those south and east besides what trade they indulged in with Rohan rather than trade with northern lands.
The northern Dunedain, on the other hand, lived in the midst of a number of races and cultures, and had to develop diplomatic skills--and the art of stealth--to a remarkable degree just to survive! And I hope you appreciated my oblique references to your own story about Bilbo's encounter with the trolls--I so love that one!
shirebound
· 4 January 2009
· Chapter 7: Lessons in History
at times I feel myself neither Elf nor Man. At times I know not what I am.
Indeed, at times he probably doesn't!
I enjoyed all three conversations in this chapter. What a lot for the residents of Rivendell to absorb.
Author's reply
Oh, the folk OF Rivendell have been dealing with so much of this for so long; but to the temporary residents and guests--indeed, this must be rather overwhelming!
As for Aragorn--considering at that time he already had so many names and identities and roles he'd played and had been playing for some time--I suspect he did at times despair of knowing just who he was as the Man Aragorn.
Thanks so, Shirebound.
Kara's Aunty
· 4 January 2009
· Chapter 7: Lessons in History
Hello Larner,
Yippee! Another chapter - how I love this story!
The telling of events from Blyn of Dale gives yet another new perspective to the tale of the Ring. And how lovely to hear parts of the story of 'The Hobbit' related from his pov. I was thrilled!
I loved the scene between the hobbits: Boromir eavesdropping on their conversation as the other three more or less ganged up on Frodo and his snappish replies to Pippin because he was frustrated that he wasn't able to keep the truth from his cousins, at least.
And how I pitied Aragorn his pseudo-existence! Such feelings of isolation despite his ties to many, knowing that those may ever shun him. So very movingly portrayed.
Great work!
M :)
Author's reply
I introduced Blyn in "The Acceptable Sacrifice," and felt he deserved a little personal exposure. I remember reading that some of the Men shown at the Council in the movie were supposed to have possibly come from Dale, so why not Lord Blyn, right? And he would have to be aware of Bilbo's part in the history of his own land, right?
And poor Frodo--he's just committed himself to what could possibly spell his own death, and he's already being pumped by Merry and Pippin as to what's happening now before he's had a chance to fully absorb it and its implications himself--but I can't imagine them responding any other way.
As for Aragorn--if to wear a Ring of Power is to be alone, it's such a similar situation to know one is intended to rule such lands as Arnor and Gondor.
Thank you so very much, Maureen!
Kitty
· 4 January 2009
· Chapter 7: Lessons in History
Nice of you to include these who must have been at the Council, but were rather neglected by the Professor himself. And good to know the Men of Dale are still so sensible!
Hm, I see Sam knew Paladin and Eglantine very well, even back then, before he could meet them as an equal. He was dead on about their reaction to all that happened outside the borders of the Shire even at this point in time when only a fraction of all these unbelievable things had happened.
Pippin dropped his tray with food when he heard the news? Wow, that means something - a tween forgetting his food! *grin* Oh well, poor Frodo now has a lot of explaining to do. I can just imagine how Merry and Pippin reacted to his news what he is about to do!
Poor Boromir. It is not easy to accept that Elrond is the twin to the first king of long-vanished Númenor, isn't it? With more than 60 generations of men in between, it is rather mind-boggling.
It was interesting to watch Aragorn and Boromir trying to get to know each other a bit better. The first bit of respect is already there, I think.
Author's reply
In the movie they showed Men at the Council, and even Tolkien indicated there were such folk there. If so, then who were they? And is it not likely Men from Dale accompanied Gloin's party? And I suspect they would be pretty eminently sensible, having returned to their historical role as living in a symbiotic relationship with the Dwarves of Erebor!
I wished to set up the future reactions of Paladin and Eglantine; and suspect that Sam had them pretty well evaluated.
To realize that Frodo has become committed to the destruction of the Ring must have been overwhelming at first for Pippin and Merry! And how they'd have wanted to find out just how and why he'd found himself in such a position. Meanwhile Frodo must have just wanted to get away from them all for a time just to think things out!
As for Boromir--he's already committed, even if he's not said a thing or been consulted. The Ring has already caught at his imagination, and he's about to get involved in a LONG journey homewards, always with the thought at the back--or front--of his mind that the Ring could be used against Sauron somehow; but he needs some warning. And with the respect and cooperation he and Aragorn appear to have known through so much of their journey together, they had to have developed some kind of rapport. But had Aragorn openly declared to Boromir from the start he intended to seek to claim the throne of Gondor once he arrived in Minas Tirith, would that cooperation have been likely to develop? And I somehow cannot see Aragorn admitting to Boromir the fact he'd known the younger Man as an infant and toddler!
Linda Hoyland
· 22 December 2008
· Chapter 6: Around the Corners
I felt that I was wandering around Rivendell with Boromir! Most enjoyable!
Author's reply
Am so glad you feel that way, too. It's rather fun to explore there, I find; and I love Frodo asking Sam to show him around the corners he's explored so far. That Boromir was doing much the same was fun!
Queen Galadriel
· 21 December 2008
· Chapter 6: Around the Corners
Oh, your description of the Last Homely House is lovely! I really love the image of the open-roofed room with the tree growing in the middle.
Again, it's interesting to watch Boromir beginning to observe the ones he'll spend so much time with.
Oh, how long? *Very* long. :)
Author's reply
Am so glad you like it. In the movies they tried to form the buildings to accommodate the trees, so I could imagine such a thing here. And he's getting clues as to what kind of folk he'll be dealing with!
Queen Galadriel
· 21 December 2008
· Chapter 5: Folk out of Legend
Ah, the Hobbits aren't the only ones to find themselves in a strange new world...though I must say, watching Boromir put the pieces together is the more entertaining. Just horrible of me, I know. *grins* I really do love it.
Author's reply
I like watching this one feel his way along as well.
Thank you so, my Lady!
Queen Galadriel
· 21 December 2008
· Chapter 4: The Son of his Heart
Aragorn smiled ruefully. “When I realized who it was, all I could think for a moment was of the small child with the chubby legs I last saw
with the hands of his mother on his shoulders.”
Hehehehe! I just find that amusing that Boromir has no idea and that Aragorn remembers the proud man as a little boy. :D
Love this conversation with Elrond.
Author's reply
Yes, a thing to delight in, that Aragorn as Thorongil knew the little boy and his parents, and now finds himself looking for the child in the father. And I, too, like the conversation between father and foster son.
Thanks so!
Queen Galadriel
· 21 December 2008
· Chapter 3: Well Met by Moonlight
Boromir's perception of Aragorn as being like his father and Faramir and yet very much his own person--very interesting. I look forward to seeing how he perceives the others who will be his companions.
Had to laugh at the boring book bit. Mom says that works for her all the time, but I always manage to get interested. Yes, it would work for Boromir, I think. :)
Author's reply
The resemblance between Denethor and Thorongil was much remarked upon in the Appendices; that there would be one with Faramir as well made sense to me.
And I've known a few who depended on boring books to allow their brains to shut down. I obiously felt Boromir would be one of them--heh!
Queen Galadriel
· 21 December 2008
· Chapter 2: Be By Him
What was he supposed to answer? Because I saw more that I did not tell--that perhaps the one to go will not return? Because our father does
not openly recognize that of the two of us you are the wiser and the better one in the end to rule Gondor when he is gone from us? Because I do not truly
wish the Black Chair--I wish to die as I have lived, ever protecting the land we both love? His answer also was delayed. “I am stronger than are you.”
Oh!
My first judgment of Boromir's character was not kind; those that followed were only slightly more so--that he was very proud and too hasty and had the right intention at heart but when about it completely wrong. But I never thought of it in this light.
I'm glad the brothers had that conversation about their father before they were parted for the rest of their lives.
Author's reply
I think this journey wasn't what Boromir had anticipated at all. How overwhelming it must have seemed! But I like to think that Boromir recognized his brother would have made a marvelous Steward!
I'm glad I could give them ths moment together!