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Deific Flame by Bejai	9 Review(s)
Marnie	Reviewed Chapter: 7 on 1/5/2005
Given the destruction of Numenor, she'll be able to reasonably conclude that the vision is fulfilled, and any future depictions are just the mirror showing her the past, as she told Frodo it sometimes does. Oh - from an author POV - what a brilliant idea! And from a reader POV - gah! No! that's just AWFUL! That is so tragic it doesn't bear thinking about! You are a genius, you know that? Author Reply: Thanks, Marnie ;)

Adamas	Reviewed Chapter: 7 on 1/4/2005
Thank you for answering my question about the three rings. My hat is off to you! I went back and re-read the section in UT. I have read that a hundred times and I just never focused on that part about the rings. I knew when I was questioning you that you had to have a logical reason. I also went back and read the Silmarillion again. I don't feel that the additional information Tolkien provided in the UT regarding the rings is in conflict with the Silmarillion; it only further clarifies. As for whether the UT can be consider canon… I think that anything Christopher Tolkien has published or written is canon. He is as much a part of Middle-Earth as his father. As I stated in my earlier review you are very talented as a writer and very canon with Tolkien. I have to ask…are you, by any chance related to Tolkien? Hee, Hee… It is really scary how close your work reflects Tolkien. I have also read your "Wandering History…" I wish I had read that first. This story is clearly following your very well explained outline of Celeborn and Galadriel's travels. Things I forgot to mention that I really liked, in no particular order… * Annatar/Sauron and his breeding of the Orcs: He is truly evil incarnate. * Galadriel's vision/nightmare of the sinking of Numenor: I loved the way Celeborn was described as her anchor. The way you wrote how each traversed different paths. Again this just supports how the two complement each other. * The way each of the Elven Ringbearers removed the rings once it was discovered that Sauron had deceived them. I noticed this when I re-read the Silmarillion. You wrote it mirroring Tolkien. Masterful * Celeborn/Galadriel/Sauron confrontation: This was described and dialoged beautify. I like the way you ended with Galadriel's prophesy to the Numenor King and Sauron "I Shall not forget..." * Again you foreshadow Tolkien's words "We have fought the long defeat…" is reflected in your words from Galadriel; "We have failed again" and her description of what she has seen. The ultimate realization that who can they trust to even seek and destroy the One Ring. I could go on and on you are truly very talented. There is so much that Tolkien has left for us to continue or branch off, without being contrary to Tolkien's vision. You have once again proven what I have said again and again to many of my fellow fans. Thank you again. I eagerly watch and wait for your next chapter. Author Reply: I'm glad you thought the explanation held together. Glad too that you like the UT; it is absolutely invaluable to me. ;) And don't I wish I was related to Tolkien ... then I might get some money from all this ... Thanks so much for your reviews today. I think that the greatest compliment is what you said about continuing Tolkien's vision without being contrary to it. I'm of the opinion that Tolkien wanted to create a living mythology, and would have been delighted by the art, the songs, and yes, the stories that have come from his work.

perelleth	Reviewed Chapter: 7 on 1/4/2005
Hi! Nilmandra recommended this story to me when I bluntly asked her to write a full account of the rest of the 2nd Age in the epilogue to her H.Lessons II. And I'm truly glad she did, for when I saw your update and had the opportunity, I simply started reading… and, wow! here I am. I must confess I had never been much interested in what had happened at the other side of the Misty Mountains, and I have always found it beyond my imagination to even guess what Celeborn and Galadriel might have been doing down there all that time, so removed from where "action" was (even though I suspected they would be carrying "action" alongside, but I could not imagine what kind...) It is a very detailed work of craft, and so much in character, I'm truly awed. I’m enjoying every part of it, but I’ll comment some brief points, maybe things that called my attention above others: I loved the way you portrayed the arrival of Amroth and Durin at the battle of Eregion, and that meeting in the first chapter, when Annatar says something about their hearts betraying them referring to Celebrían and Amroth... it is a very powerful line... it hit me as truly accurate...and a very painful kind of flaws indeed for those proud and selfwilled parents! I kind of sympathize with Amroth, in the sense that I don’t think being Celeborn and Galadriel’s child is an appealing lot in life!! So I quite understand his need of simpler things, his search for something completely different from his parents’ trade in which he could feel accomplished…! But to desert his people for love! Man! I find it hard to believe! (Do you plan to get to that point btw?) If it was truly so (and not the typical corruption of a tale which is passed along and retold for centuries until it has little to do with the actual fact, as it usually happens with popular tales...) I think he can expect a sound scolding sometime in Valinor! His mother would find it hard to forgive I think! And your picture of the orc breeding system is… Scary? Creepy? Almost believable? This is evil at his most mechanized, and thus so Sauron’s… gee! (shivers) So, all in all, I think it is clear I’m enjoying, and looking forward for more! :-) PS: A little typo: Chapter 7's heading reads Chapter 6... I almost asked for my money back when I got to the end and found there was no "forward" and then went back and checked! ;-) Author Reply: Thanks for the great review! And it was nice of Nilmandra to recommend the story. I would have loved to see her take on this history as well, but it is rather an exercise in gapfilling. Or gaping-hole filling ;) I'm so pleased that it feels in character. Glad you enjoyed the line from Sauron about the children. I've always wondered a bit at Amroth and Celebrian. Amroth abandons his post, Celebrian gives in to grief (although she has a good excuse). Given that Annatar lived in Eregion, I figured that their fates had something to do with the fact that Sauron personally knew them, and had reason to hate them all. I am going to write about Amroth's abdication. In fact, it was Marnie's request for a story about the first appearance of the Balrog in Moria that got this whole thing started. I found I couldn't write the Balrog without Amroth, and I couldn't write Amroth without deciding who the heck he was, and I couldn't write his background without a backstory ... you get the idea. I found I had to write about his life to get to the point where Amroth's fate had emotional resonance, and DF was born ;) And it just keeps growing. Honestly, the orc breeding scene was not my idea. I think Sauron grabbed the keyboard and wrote it for me. "Creepy" is a good way to put it ;) Oh, typo fixed. Sorry about that! I'm so pleased you've enjoyed the story so far, and hope you continue to do so!

Marnie	Reviewed Chapter: 7 on 1/4/2005
I couldn't bear to write a scene where they actually thought about it, but I can't help wondering if Celeborn suspects. He's already decided that denial is his best strategy :) I think he'd tell himself it wasn't proof. Maybe the trait came from a distant kinsman on the Avari side of the family... which would be bad, but bearable. Thinking about that, and about the orc breeder, puts a different aspect on Finrod's death in Sauron's dungeons, I think. Sauron had intended to keep him alive, but he must have been quite aware that would have been a fate worse than death. It makes that particular story slightly less horrible. Oh, and I hadn't thought of Galadriel's vision of drowning as tying in with Amroth's death. Gah! Break my heart why don't you! You're definately reaching sublime levels of tragedy in this chapter. Author Reply: Yeah, I think he'd go with denial. It really is too horrible otherwise. And you're right -- thank heavens Finrod died. My God. Could you imagine? I just couldn't help it. A vision of Numenor's fate is so close to Amroth's that I just had to slip in something ambiguous. Galadriel isn't going to make the connection either, until it is too late. Given the destruction of Numenor, she'll be able to reasonably conclude that the vision is fulfilled, and any future depictions are just the mirror showing her the past, as she told Frodo it sometimes does.

Bodkin	Reviewed Chapter: 7 on 1/4/2005
On re-reading (again!), I just thought I would add:- the silver haired orcs are a horrible thought. Not so much for themselves, but from the thought of their origin. But even worse, in a way is the orc-breeder - 'This particular breeder was very old, and very fat, for it had never seen the front lines. Smart and vicious, it was part of a very narrow privileged class who oversaw most of the spawning operation. This one had originally been an elf who, after precise torture, had taken to the craft. Sauron suspected that it personally sired a high percentage of the foot soldiers of each generation.' To imagine an elf so tormented that he breaks and ends up siring orcs is one thing, but one who comes to enjoy the process so much that he contributes to the corruption with such delight is even more horrible. Author Reply: Y'know, that whole scene just wrote itself. It was Annatar, who was quite excited to tell me about his own genius. Creeped me out, to be honest with you. I really wanted the whole section to be horrifying on many levels. I knew I wasn't going to write specifically about the progenitor of the silver-haired orcs, who is, of course, Elmo -- Celeborn's granddad. (My little nod to Marnie, 'cause I can't help it.) But I certainly wanted the readers thinking about what monsterous things happen to everyone Sauron touches. In comparison to the poor orc-breeder, I almost think Ar-Pharazon got off easy; after all, he just died. Thanks again, Bodkin.

Adamas	Reviewed Chapter: 7 on 1/3/2005
Your work was mentioned in another author's reviews, so I decided to check you out. I have read the "Sapphire Aurae" and now this story. I normally do not read fanfiction regarding the elves. Mostly, because I am a devoted Tolkien fan and it really bothers me when writers do not remain true or follow canon with Tolkien's elves. My irritation comes from the fact that I believe that Tolkien wanted the elves to be somewhat above humans - beings of light. Yes, I know the Noldar have very strong tendency to get into many humanistic traits and weakness but for the most part they are superior. Which is why in Jackson's LOR movies Legolas never looks like he's been in a battle while Aragon and the other humans always look like a mess. I am more tolerant with writers who take creative license Tolkien's human characters. Anyway, the reason I mention all of the above is because I truly enjoyed your work. I sincerely felt that you have not water down the elves, ie Celeborn, Galadriel, Elrond, and the others… I enjoyed completely the balance of power and partnership, as well as the sacrifices you have written in the Celeborn and Galadriel relationship. I like that you have not make either of them overshadow the other. Enjoyed reading in particular the advice Celeborn gave his son Amroth regarding marriage. That scene and the dialog between father and son reminded me of the passage in Tolkien where Galadriel states they (C & G) have fought the long defeat. Your Annatar/Sauron also intrigued me. I really liked your description of him when he had a physical form. I like the way you link each of your chapters to Tolkien by quoting from Tolkien in the beginning. You really are a very talented writer and I have enjoyed reading and re-reading your work. I am looking forward to your next chapter. A final note regarding the Ringbearers of the three Elven Rings of Power. Narya was given to Cirdan and he in turn gave it to Gandalf. Vilya was given to Gil-galad and in turn he gave to Elrond. You changed the ring assignment in chapter five, was there a reason, which you have not revealed yet? Thank you again for sharing your talent. Author Reply: Thank you for your thoughtful review. I'm so pleased that you found my stories worthwhile, particularly if this is not your usual reading. I too believe that Tolkien intended the elves to be better than humans. I do love the elves, but it is always a struggle to write them because of this difference. I always have to think to myself, not "how would I react?" but "how would they?" I'm gratified that it seems to be working. I'm delighted that a part of the story reminded you of the "long defeat" quote. I've spent a lot of time figuring out how I can connect this story in subtle ways to what Tolkien said; I spend a lot of time in his text trying to get the feel of the moment, and then determine what it would have taken for the characters to get there. The idea of the "long defeat" is one of the central themes I'm trying to weave through all my work. Thanks for asking the question regarding the rings. I try to get the little details right, because it drives me crazy when I get them wrong. You had me worried, so I double-checked my notes, and I do have canonical justification for my interpretation. If you'll bear with me a moment, I'll explain. The section I relied on is from the "History of Galadriel and Celeborn" section of the Unfinished Tales, which says: "Celebrimbor followed [Galadriel's] counsel that the Ring of Air and the Ring of Fire should be sent out of Eregion; and he entrusted them to Gil-galad in Lindon." Immediately thereafter, Christopher Tolkien notes that "It is said here that at this time Gil-galad gave Narya, the Red Ring, to Cirdan Lord of the Havens, but later in the narrative there is a marginal note that he kept it himself until he set out for the War of the Last Alliance." Later is the passage we get another quote describing the same events. At the time of the first Council in Imladris, "Gil-galad gave Vilya, the Blue Ring, to Elrond ... but the Ring Ring he kept, until he gave it to Cirdan when he set out from Lindon in the days of the Last Alliance." Obviously, there are multiple interpretations based on these quotes. Frankly, there is also an argument that the UT isn't strictly canon. However, given how little description we have of the Second Age, it is a close as I can get. My preferred interpretation is that Gil-galad originally received Narya and Vilya. He then gave Vilya to Elrond when he visited after Imladris was founded, and kept Narya until the Last Alliance, when he gave it to Cirdan. Cirdan thereafter gave it to Gandalf. This is, of course, just one possible explanation out of many. You've got to love Tolkien's own internal inconsistency ;) Thanks again for your great review. I don't often hear from readers outside the usual circle, and so it was an honor to hear from you. I hope I live up to your expectations, and that you continue to enjoy my stories.

Marnie	Reviewed Chapter: 7 on 1/3/2005
Crossing orcs with wargs had not worked, but it had been entertaining to watch them try. LOL! Deary deary me, I was getting too fond of Annatar and I'm glad to have had this chapter's glimpse into his 'arts' to remind me what we're really talking about. I must say that I read this late last night and then lay awake worrying about poor Elmo, and what would have happened if Sauron had actually managed to assemble his battalion of silver-haired orcs, and Celeborn had had to face it. It really hurts much more when you have a name to attach to the individual orc. You shouldn't plague me with these plot bunnies! Annatar was seriously unmasked this chapter, and now I really hate the smarmy git :) As for Ar-Pharazon, he has it coming, but, yes, the tragedy of the past few days has brought home the full horror of what that king's pride brought on his people. I'm glad you didn't change it; it resonated as a cry of mourning. I loved the way that Celeborn and Galadriel each came to the same conclusion by their own different methods, and Celeborn's reaction to Galadriel's mirror. It must be unbelievably depressing to be in constant contact with all the terrible things which might just happen in the future. It makes it a lot clearer why Galadriel has just had enough by the end of LotR. Nice to see Calandil again! I chortled a bit at his 'more than usual'. He is rather irrepressible. Loved the conversation between the four of them. Annatar's very sinister hinting that he knows all about their children, Celeborn being gagged because he can't find it in himself to speak as fawningly as required, and Galadriel having a good go at it, but ultimately resorting to staring Ar-Pharazon down. Brilliant! And then to have to acknowledge that they can't destroy the Ring even in Sauron's absence because no one trusts anyone else to touch it... Hooray for hobbits! This was a great chapter! Author Reply: Thanks for the review, Marnie. I knew you'd pick up on the exact implications of the silver haired orcs. Once the idea struck me, I had to write it, horrifying as it was. It really is disturbing, this idea that the enemy, the orcs, could well be closely related to some of the great elves. I couldn't bear to write a scene where they actually thought about it, but I can't help wondering if Celeborn suspects. You're welcome to that plot bunny, if you'd like ;) I really wanted to write a scene showing Annatar's twisted evil. Up until now, and even in the books, it is hard to point to actual evil deeds. He could make an argument that he is merely ambitious and misunderstood. Since this is Sauron's last physical appearance in the story, I wanted to make it clear exactly what he really is. Besides, he insisted ;) I'm glad you thought the allusion to Numenor's fate was appropriate. I really was worried about it, considering the disaster is Asia, but it had to be here. Tragedy by water is going to happen twice in this story, and I needed Galadriel-the-foresighted to get a glimpse of them both, even if she doesn't realize exactly what she's seeing. Glad you're enjoying the story!

Sphinx	Reviewed Chapter: 7 on 1/2/2005
You know who I liked the most in the chapter. 'Course you do. :D The silver haired orc was a cunning insertion. Brilliant, though. Annatar owns my heart. He really does, with the way you wrap yourself around his brain and write him. Not Sauron, not Gorthaur - Annatar. Great orc-speak, even better was the Lord of the Rings. And this. "I am their gravest enemy. They are my … most annoying detractors." !!! Celeborn was deservingly snappy, Galadriel was justifiably distraught, and Calandil was good. Love the way you've encoporated him into this. But...Annatar. 'A Simple Way: Phase II', perhaps? ;) Author Reply: Glad you picked up on the silver haired orc thing. Once the idea hit me, it was really rather horrifying, but I just had to write it. Annatar really is fun to write. Which is frightening, but there it is. An Annatar muse. Lovely ;) I'll lend him to you, if you'd like. I want to see a twisted, moody Annatar story from you! Please? Glad you're enjoying the story, and thanks for the review.

Bodkin	Reviewed Chapter: 7 on 1/2/2005
What an unutterable **** Ar-Pharazon was. Never heard of a Numenorean who more deserved his fate. The only thing that distresses me is that he dragged so many powerless people into disaster and death with him - ordinary soldiers who had no option but to follow his commands, women, children, the slaves rowing his galleys. Actually, it would have been quite amusing to see Ar-Pharazon ending up enslaved by Sauron and forced to spend an age and a half licking his boots. If Sauron wears boots. I love the image of Celeborn grounded in the present anchoring Galadriel as she plays with her mirror. And it making him bad-tempered. Poor orcs. Not the world's cutest creatures, but hardly their fault. And the breeding programme certainly makes Sauron's less appealing side clearly apparent, so that the pretty Annatar impression is seen for what it is. As does the Herald standing in his colleague's entrails. Ar-Whatanidiot isn't really seeking alliance, though - he's seeking domination. But even in the first few minutes, Sauron has already got him where he wanted him, so that he can spew venomous words at Celeborn and Galadriel. (I like Ar-Pharazon patronising Galadriel. Shame they couldn't then spend a short period alone together. Then Sauron could have swept up the remains. It would have saved a lot of trouble.) And the ultimate weapon remains. But at least they know to keep their hands to themselves. Great story. Author Reply: Ar-Pharazon really made some monumental mistakes in all of this. It really is terrible that he pulled all his people down with him. That's next chapter, and it may be a bit grueling to write. I really wanted to write a scene where Sauron was full-on bad, and where the horror of what he really is would come through. All we've seen of him so far is the suave Annatar scenes, and he could make an argument that he isn't really evil, just ambitious and misunderstood. Even in the books, we don't really see the evil, other than wars. I thought it was about time that we see him for what he really is. Thanks for the review. Glad you're enjoying the story!

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