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Time's Turnings by daw the minstrel | 25 Review(s) |
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pipinheart | Reviewed Chapter: 7 on 10/12/2005 |
Legolas handled Beliond good...he wanted to go to the end and decided that was that... Author Reply: Legolas is asserting himself a little, and Beliond just has to suck it up sometimes. | |
meckinock | Reviewed Chapter: 7 on 2/5/2005 |
I was just loving Eilian's discussion with King Bram. He analyzed and negotiated the initial minefield expertly, especially for someone with minimal prior diplomatic experience. Thranduil should be so proud! Eilian really does have a natural ability to bridge gaps and inspire trust (which makes curious to see how Beliond ever cut it as a spy - he must have a hidden "charm" switch under his tunic somewhere!) Speaking of Beliond, I think it was lucky that Maltanaur was there to gracefully diffuse the dilemma over accomodations. I suppose there are bound to be conflicts of interest when everyone on the team has a different mission, but Beliond was awfully quick to pronounce what the sleeping arrangements would be without considering anyone else's priorities. It'll be interesting to see what happens when there's no mediator - it looks like Legolas is ready to assert himself. This is a deliciously complicated interpersonal situation. I am so glad you sent these four on a mission together. And in a foreign environment, yet. This is brilliant. Ithilden, Ithilden, Ithilden. What did Ada and Nana tell you about lying? I don't know how Thranduil managed to not strangle him when he still had the kahunas to ask what the swordmaster thought about him joining the novices after being read the riot act for lying. Geez, and he still thinks it's about his fighting skills! Please let us see the scene where young Ithilden finally figures out what the point of that lecture was! Geez, Eilian's antics look mild in comparison. I guess that just goes to show that there was more wrapped up in the friction between Thranduil and Eilian than met the eye. This was another great chapter in a super story! Author Reply: Beliond was more your lurking kind of spy! I guess anyway. This is not an area I have a lot of experience in. Along with tons of other things in fanfiction too (archery, woodcraft, warfare, horses, etc.). The four way set of relationships has presented me with a lot of possibilities and I'm having a hard time taking advantage of them all. Also some of it is kind of subtle. I don't think that Legolas knows why Beliond is so overprotective, although I hope readers do. Young Ithilden is maddening because he's so sure he's right. Even Thranduil was amazed by him. I think maybe naneth needs to have a little talk with him. Glad to hear from you. Hope you're having fun. :-) | |
perelleth | Reviewed Chapter: 7 on 2/3/2005 |
Nice to have this chapter waiting for me! I've finally decided to print out some of your stories and now I'm catching up pretty fast (thanks to airport chaos, delays and cancellations that have hit me this week more times than it is fair for a single person, or statistics would allow!! :-( I'm glad Eilian seems to be almost exceeding his Adar's expectations with King Bram. Beliond should have seen him, too! Anyway, it is fun how protective of Legolas he, too, is. I was sure it had been Eilian who had suggested Todith he could send Legolas, but now he seems to be regretting he's been sent with him!!! Todith is even wiser than he seems to be, though I hope Thranduil won't charge that on Eilian's account when he get's word of this "family mission". And Legolas gets to have his night at the inn... it somehow reminds me of Pippin's excitement at the Prancing Pony in Bree!!!:-) The night promises to be full of events, I hope Legolas won't try to give Beliond the slip and go searching on his own... And I bet there's someone somewhere who's getting very worried by the presence of four elves in Dale.. mmm interesting... But, above all, I loved Ithilden's flashback. I'm not certain about the time he was born but since he seems to be quite older than Eilian, and Third Age wasn't exactly a peaceful time, I bet he grew up feeling the pressure of serving the realm and helping his Adar, while Sinnarn now has his adar an uncles and seems to be quite protected from the harder truths of life out there. It is very interesting to see Ithilden struggle between what he thinks he should expect from his son (responsiblity and self control) and how much he regrets having his younger brothers serving the realm in dangerous or very dangerous positions. It is such a fascinating character you have here!! Any chance we might be privy to some flashbacks on Thranduil's youthful eagerness as well? :-) Author Reply: Air travel is just so dreary these days. It's a service industry that doesn't know it's supposed to provide service. But I'm glad it's giving you a chance to read. Eilian is good with people and he and Bram seem to have similar senses of humor. They both think it's quite funny to lock the guards out of the room. Ithilden was born around 1880 TA. He's a good 600 years older than his brothers, who are only 60 years apart. So evil was astir when he was young. He was an only child and his father's heir. I think he felt pressure from the start and is the kind who would take it seriously. And I think that like Thranduil he feels duty bound to sacrifice the younger elves' safety and send them into battle. But it kills him to do it. I've gotten to know him well only fairly recently in writing these stories. He's been hard to pin down. It would be fun to write about young Thranduil. But not in this story! | |
White Wolf | Reviewed Chapter: 7 on 2/2/2005 |
There was just the right amount of tension between Eilian and Bram, who feels the need to be cautious, but I'm sure wants very much to believe all is well between his people and the elves. I think Beliond probably wanted to strangle Maltanaur, when he suggested he and Legolad stay at the inn. Legolas sure is happy about that. It makes me wonder what will happen there. Will Beliond's unease prove founded? Ithilden trying to trick one of the training masters? Who would ever have believed it! Author Reply: Glad you liked the interaction between Eilian and Bram. I struggled with it for some reason. But then I guess Eilian struggled with it too. :-) It occurred to me that in a situation like this, Beliond's priorities and Maltanaur's might conflict. Maltanaur wants Legolas as Eilian's guard, and Beliond wants Legolas tucked in a safe place. Yeah, who would have believed that Ithilden would do that? Thranduil was certainly incredulous. | |
Alice | Reviewed Chapter: 7 on 2/1/2005 |
I like King Bram. Straightforward kind of guy. I think Eilian will do well in charming him. We all hope so anyway. At the very least Bram's perceptive. (snicker) I think Beliond feels betrayed by Maltaunar. Sputtering indeed. He was probably just biting back " Keeper solidarity, you traitor!" Hehe. And Legolas is being very cleverly deviant. I support him on it. He deserves to not be treated like a six year old. Despite what Beliond might think. So, I have to admit I was cringing in pain for Ithilden throughout his little flashback. I was also both apalled and slightly in awe of his guts to go behind Thranduil's back like that. That takes quite a bit of gumption. No wonder Thranduil occasionally considers him to have been the difficult one. He knows what's right and Eru help you if you disagree. Fun teenager to live with, really. Maybe it's a good thing that he was an adult by the time Eilian and Legolas came along. I personally would not have wanted him as an older sibling, particularly as he was as a teenager. I loved the mention of Lorellin by the way. It seems really sad to me that Sinnarn never got to meet her. I think they would have been great friends. And while Alfirin and Ithilden would have to keep Thranduil from disciplining Sinnarn they'd have to keep her from encouraging such excursions as jumping down to talk to the men. We should see more of Lorellin. So, excellent chapter. I greatly look forward to the next one, complete with shenanigans at the Inn. I think Beliond's probably going to be the one to get into trouble at the Inn though. An anxious, tense Beliond who's testy at the best of times is not going to be someone you'd want to meet at a tavern. Author Reply: I kind of liked Bram too. I reminded myself that this is an ancestor of Bard, who killed Smaug and did good things for the people of Esgaroth. And he seems to have a sense of humor that's like Eilian's. Shut the guards out of the room! Yes! Oh ha ha. It occurred to me that Beliond and Maltanaur might wind up with different priorities here. Maltanaur wants Eilian's safety and sees Legolas as one of the people who are supposed to provide that, which he is. Beliond wants Legolas out of harm's way. I think Beliond understands, but he's not happy. Ithilden would have been a terror as a teenager. I don't mean he would have been wild. Just that he's always sure he's right. Thranduil must have been completely astounded. I was just thinking yesterday that I need to bring Lorellin in a little more. I have so few oppportunities to write about her and I'm wasting this one. Glad you liked it! | |
Ms. Whatsit | Reviewed Chapter: 7 on 2/1/2005 |
You know, for a second I suspected that there was something wrong with the wine Bram gave to Eilian. But I was wrong, I'm sure. Bram wouldn't be so criminally stupid. I liked Diplomat!Eilian, forced to pick his words carefully and think hard before he speaks or does anything. And I laughed out loud when Eilian thought that "The problem with those words was that they were true." It can't be easy giving Thranduil good PR, can it. I am very, very curious to find out more about Beliond's adventures among men. Perhaps he could tell Legolas a few stories, and let us readers listen in? Author Reply: Whoa. You have a wicked imagination, Ms. Whatsit! Something in the wine would indeed cause a stir. Thranduil would seek vengeance right quick! I had some trouble deciding if Eilian would be good at the diplomat stuff. He's impatient usually, and that wouldn't be good. But I thought he was eager to do well here, both because he wants to please his father (poor thing) and he knows how important the iron is to his warriors. And he's good with people too. And all he had to do was convince Bram that he was honest and he was half way home. Still I didn't think he'd want to do this all the time. He enjoys giving into the "fight" part of the "fight or flight" stress response, and dancing with words isn't going to be good enough in the long run. As soon as Beliond tells me anything about his adventures, I'll let you know! | |
Dot | Reviewed Chapter: 7 on 1/31/2005 |
Sorry I’m a little late with this. A long day at work followed by what felt like an even longer phone call from a friend, who wanted to tell me all about her holiday… I must say, I’m liking King Bram! He’s very real. And Eilian put in a great performance. I love the little game they have to play, with everyone sizing everyone else up beneath a layer of formality. I get the impression that Bram is no fool. He’s obviously very aware of the lack of interest in them from the elves and will no doubt be suspicious that this belated visit coincides with the rumours. I hadn’t thought about how frightening it could be for those living around Thranduil’s realm to know that the elves are investing a lot in arming themselves. It seems not to have occurred to the elves either but it certainly makes sense now that I see it. “I do not think that will be necessary. Lord Eilian and I will be able to manage on our own.” That was rather Thranduil-esque! Nobody tagging along where they’re not needed, thank you very much. I can see that Bram and Eilian would be inclined to get along. They could probably have a fairly good time if this really were a social visit. But it isn’t, and they both know that. It must be hard for Eilian to be so very aware of his father’s voice in his head, but I thought he did well. He’s as reassuring as he possibly could be, really. And while Bram is understandably concerned for his people, he doesn’t seem the slightest bit fearful of the elves who’ve just landed on his doorstep and is even amused by the hovering Maltanaur. Or maybe he’s just thinking that “attendants” are the same, no matter what race! This trip seems to be making Legolas see Beliond in a new light and realise that he’s an interesting person with interesting stories to tell, although he’s still chafing a little under his control. I was actually watching a documentary about Prince Harry last night (there wasn’t much on) and someone was saying that the job of the minder isn’t just to make sure the prince isn’t shot at but to ensure that he’s behaving within royal protocol and that he knows he’s representing the Queen at all times. I thought that was interesting. Thranduil’s sons and grandson have all wanted the freedom to make their own mistakes and learn from them at one time or another, and I’ve always been inclined to think that it’s best for young people to do that but I suppose it’s true too that they just cannot have the same chance as others do to make mistakes and try to find their own path. Beliond is quite overprotective and they definitely need to find more of a balance but I suppose maybe part of his job would involve seeing that Legolas behaves appropriately, as well as being responsible for his safety. I know Legolas and his brothers all know their place but as far as Beliond is probably concerned, he has a job to do and will do it whatever Legolas might say. If any of that made sense. Oh, I had a really odd dream about Beliond recently. Apparently I’m even feeling sorry for him in my sleep. I can’t remember much but the gist was that he must have felt very guilty when he saw Thranduil’s reaction to him leaving Legolas in Imladris and so when they all had to fight during the war, he chose to protect Thranduil and was badly injured defending him. He healed physically, but just waited long enough for Legolas to come home and said goodbye to him and sailed west. I wasn’t even reading ‘A Question of Duty’ lately. Strange. “We can stay in the inn that is just down the street.” Well… I guess it is his job to stay close to Eilian and Maltanaur – what a coincidence it happens to annoy Beliond! He knows very well Beliond won’t leave him alone for a second. “Do not get raucous in the inn’s common room.” Sounds like Maltanaur is familiar with the layout of an inn…;-) I’m getting worried about the horses because you keep mentioning them. I wouldn’t like to be the man trying to handle Tavor. Good lord, daw. I don’t know what to say about the Ithilden flashback. He was obviously one of those kids who instead of wanting freedom, was always in a hurry to grow up. It’s sad really, because I get the impression he didn’t enjoy his childhood as he could have. Boy did it take a lot of self-confidence for him to go to Lomilad. It doesn’t seem to have even occurred to him that his skill might keep him back, that it’s not just his father. It seems Lomilad saw right through him. That drill sounds awful but I can see that even though Ithilden is certainly very capable, the signs of arrogance he displays need to be quashed fairly quickly. Thranduil was never going to let Ithilden go ahead and join the novices, even if Lomilad gave him a glowing report. The point is, he deceived the novice master. Ithilden seems to have shown signs of being able to withstand his father’s fury from a young enough age, though! I felt a bit scared just reading it! I remember Eilian telling Legolas that what Thranduil was most angry about was usually what he felt most ashamed of. And if it had been Legolas here, he’d have been in tears of shame by the end of it. But Ithilden is still furious and really seems to think that his father is just wrong. I’m kind of surprised because Ithilden is such an honourable adult but I’ll grudgingly admit that his huge amount of self-confidence isn’t necessarily always a good thing. I actually just feel bad for him because this can’t be an easy memory for him now, being the person he’s become. I loved the scene between Thranduil and Ithilden. It means so much more to see their relationship contain so much respect when it follows the previous scene. Ithilden is in a difficult position with Sinnarn. Sinnarn doesn’t seem to be ready but he’ll fight against being told to wait. Maybe he needs a difficult blade drill to make him realise he’s not ready ;-) I don’t know. Ithilden is used to telling people what to do, but he needs to maintain a good relationship with his son, without just giving in to keep him happy. I’m really interested to know the outcome of this one! I like that Thranduil offers some thoughts but doesn’t press the matter. The little chat with Alfirin all those years ago must have been very effective! Mostly, though, I just loved seeing Ithilden and Thranduil as two adults who respect and trust each other, speaking as equals. I’m still a little shaken by the flashback! Right, enough rambling. I’m off to bed. Tomorrow is St. Brigid’s day so we’re having a cross-making workshop and stories. If anyone turns up. I wonder about my job sometimes… Author Reply: I was thinking good thought about Bram because he's the ancestor of Bard, who killed Smaug and led the people of Esgaroth when their mayor fell apart. Smaug won't be around for a couple of hundred years yet, I believe, and then more time passes before Bard is in action, but still. I thought he came from good stock. I wonder if the formality of their talk helps or hinders them. In a way, you'd think they could just get to it and talk frankly, but if one of them is wishing the other harm, then the formalities kind of keep things cordial. I don't know. Eilian did all right though. He tried to be honest and he appreciated Bram's sense of humor. Lock the guards in the hall! Yes! I was going to say that when Legolas is just a warrior, he's kind of anonymous to outsiders. But I suppose his fellow warriors always know who he is, and if he is badly behaved, that does reflect on his father. And his identity could be come known at any time to outsiders too. I've written of him as Thranduil's representative only in "Spring Awakenings" (when he goes to the flooded settlement with food) and "Question of Duty." I don't know what Beliond would do after Sauron is defeated. I think if he were the kind to sail, he's have done it already. He lost an awful lot and stayed in Arda for the Third Age. Of course, he was serving the realm then too, but I think he's attached to Arda. He'd probably go to Ithilien. I think he sees Legolas as a surrogate son. But I believe his family is waiting for him in Valinor. I like to think of all the people there -- Lorellin, Turgon, Galelas, Siondel -- and that they are happy after I killed them off. I think that Ithilden is sure he's right in that scene with the novice masters. He just can't believe that his parents can't see it. Surely if he provides them with proof, an objective opinion from Lomilad, for instance, they'll see the light and give in. And even when I was writing the chapter, I could feel this disjuncture when I went from the flashback to the "present day" scene between Ithilden and Thranduil. They so respect one another now. For each of them, the other is a friend and confidante. That's an amazing thing, but I guess 600 years of Elven wisdom get you somewhere. So, crosses are somehow associated with St. Brigid? I rememember learning a song as a kid about 'sweet St. Bride of the yellow hair' but I have no memory of what she represents. | |
Bodkin | Reviewed Chapter: 7 on 1/31/2005 |
This chapter has thrown up some lovely 'what if' thoughts. What if Eilian and Beliond were somehow out of reach for some reason (maybe they're both on sick leave) and Maltanaur agrees to look after Legolas for a while? That could be really interesting. What if Sinnarn gets sicked onto 'royal duty' for a while in a 'getting to know you' effort with Dale and Esgaroth - in the way that noble families would send offspring to foster for a while with other families of similar rank - so that he does exchange student duty. (And wouldn't Legolas be pig-sick if he was stuck in the safe Eastern Patrol while his nephew got to play with the Men!) Eilian is doing well on his Men-charming duty. And he will get plenty of fun out of it. 'Eilian stopped about ten feet from Bram and dropped to one knee, as he would have done in his father’s Great Hall. He heard Maltanaur follow suit behind him.' Very tactful - and completely naturally done, too. 'Bram smiled blandly at him. “I do not think that will be necessary. Lord Eilian and I will be able to manage on our own.” ' So funny - I can just see Bram winding his advisors up. I was glad to see that he was actually capable of pouring wine. Bram and Eilian could really enjoy themselves probing and being tactful for each other - I hope they get plenty of opportunities to 'discuss' the relationship between Dale and the Elves before whatever crisis erupts. Poor Maltanaur - trying to keep Eilian and Beliond's Legolas-protection instincts under control so that he can guard the King's representative. I hope the night at the inn proves interesting and instructive rather than dangerous. Eilian to charm the King - Legolas to charm the townsfolk. Seems a fair division of labour. It's good to see Beliond and Legolas taking some small steps in their relationship. I suppose thirty years is not long to elves, but the boy will never grow up if he's not allowed to breathe. Poor Ithilden. He's one whose own nature forced him into growing up far too soon. Although how he expected to get away with that trick I don't know. Obstinacy overcoming sense, I suspect. It's good to see him and his adar in their grown-up relationship - each is, in many ways, the closest the other has to a friend and confidant. And, although it is hard to keep Sinnarn sufficiently sat on, they should listen to Naneth. And, yes, it will depend how they approach it. Not that it will make any difference - forty years on, Sinnarn will still be too irresponsible to be a really reliable warrior. One of the greatest things about these stories is how they always leave me wanting to know more about all sorts of aspects of character and experience. Good thing you write quickly - there are so many stories to tell! Author Reply: Stop! Stop! You produce plot bunnies at an alarming rate! Eilian is doing well in Dale. I think he and Bram might have similar senses of humor -- and wouldn't Thranduil groan if he knew that! Bram got a kick out of shutting the guards out of the room and Eilian was probably yukking up over that too. Maltanaur has a tough task here, and his natural ally is Legolas, who wants to be left to do his job. Beliond and Eilian both want him tucked safely away, but thank Eru for Maltanaur. We'll see how they do in the inn. I think you're right about Ithilden. He's not a natural child, in a way. He worries and he wants to do it right and he sees what's coming and wants to prepare for it. He looks at the adults around him and they seem to be just ignoring all this! I absolutely agree that he and Thranduil are friends now, and that says a lot about the kind of person Ithilden grew up to be -- once he was allowed to do it. | |
esamen | Reviewed Chapter: 7 on 1/31/2005 |
Goodness, that WAS a fast update. Must have flown out of your fingertips! I like your portrait of Bram. He seems to be a wise and mature person, looking at the situation from a Man's point of view. I like that he is not a flat caricature of a simpleton Man. He seems like a good match for Eilian -- he'll make Eilian work hard and use all his talent during this negotiation, huh? I really liked these lines -- I thought they caught the whole dynamic -- "Bram paused, tapping one finger on the arm of his chair, and studying Eilian’s face. Eilian met his gaze steadily for a long moment. Abruptly Bram rose. “Son of Thranduil, I beg that you will join me in a cup of wine.” “My lord,” said one of Bram’s advisors, stepping forward hastily, “would you like me to accompany you and your guest?” Bram smiled blandly at him. “I do not think that will be necessary. Lord Eilian and I will be able to manage on our own.” " *************************** And I also really like the development between Legolas and Beliond. They are starting to communicate more -- not nearly at the level that we see Eilian and Maltaunar talk in this chapter -- but I see them begin to understand each other. This little moment here was a riot, and I had to hide a chuckle so that I wouldn't insult poor Beliond: "He turned resolutely to Maltanaur, not wanting to see the outrage on Beliond’s face. Maltanaur was watching them both. Now he looked sideways at Beliond and said a little apologetically, “The inn sounds like a good idea. " And then, behind your back, I saw Legolas pump a fist and said "Yes!" ***************** So, I have a question. Beliond mentioned that he hadn't known that Legolas was the one who was taken captive by the Easterlings and beaten. Has Beliond seen Legolas's back? Are the scars still visible? Would Beliond wonder what happened? Did Thranduil not give him Legolas's life story, as a kind of orientation to his new assignment as Legolas's bodyguard? I am curious . . . Thanks for a beautiful new chapter! Author Reply: Bram is fun to figure out. This has to be an ancestor of Bard, the archer who killed Smaug, and he's a smart, honorable guy, although probably not a lot of fun at a party. So I was trying to make this ancestor be a worthwhile guy. He seems to have a sense of humor that Eilian can appreciate. They both enjoyed locking the guards out of the room. It occurred to me that Maltanaur's and Beliond's priorities might conflict in Dale. And really Legolas is right that he's there as an escort for Eilian. The woods are a long way away. But Beliond is not going to be pleased! I figure that Legolas has no scars. I thought that elven healing would take care of that. What I thought was that the experience was traumatic for Legolas less because of the actual physical injury (although I'm sure that hurt), than because he was assaulted at all. I think he also felt emasculated and he was at a vulnerable age for that. He came through with flying colors but it had to have affected him. When Beliond got Legolas to guard, that incident was 10 years in the past or so, so I thought Thranduil might not have felt it necessary to go into detail. Glad you liked it. I had it pretty well outlined so it went fast. | |
French Pony | Reviewed Chapter: 7 on 1/31/2005 |
The sword drill scene turned out well. Of course, now that I've been thinking about that particular drill, with my luck, Mike will decide to have us do that in class tomorrow. But whatever. I get an épée lesson to make up for that. Sinnarn sounds like the perfect candidate for a gap year. Some people just aren't ready to move on, but they need something distracting to do while they wait. That was why I took a gap year between high school and college. Maybe they could send Sinnarn off to one of the villages to work for a year. . . the Elf version of the Peace Corps or something. Or have him intern with the healers, or something where he would be doing useful work, getting a taste of adult responsibilities without having everyone's life depend on him. Good old Eilian. Mister Diplomacy. By taking Eilian off alone, King Bram has instantly assured at least one very small Elf-Man alliance -- between all the bodyguards involved, who must have been having a collective litter of kittens outside during that little chat. Of all Thranduil's sons, Eilian is the best master of spin. He knows just what to say, and also what not to mention. Ithilden would feel honor-bound to tell the entire truth about his father, and at this point, Legolas might not even know the whole truth and would make promises on Thranduil's behalf with nothing but the best of intentions. But Eilian can select the nicest bits of the truth and present them with a smile on his face. It would be interesting to see what happens to Mister Diplomacy after the War. After Legolas leaves, Thranduil will be forced to establish some sort of relationship with Gondor. I can see Eilian showing up to charm the pants off the court in Minas Tirith, and it amuses me greatly. So Beliond has been firmly overruled. I'm sure he is plotting against Maltanaur even now for backing Legolas up. So they'll stay in the inn. Beliond's mother-hen act will probably do more to convince the common folk that Elves are people than will all of Eilian's wily charm. Do the Elves use money? Is it the same money that they use in Dale? I find myself wondering how they're going to pay for a night at the inn (surely Legolas realizes that you do have to pay for that), and whether they brought enough cash with them for situations like this. Did Eilian just help himself to a sack of Dale money and dole out whatever everyone needed? Author Reply: I really grateful to you for sending me that drill and then beta reading that part for me. Your suggestions were all very helpful. It really seemed like an appropriate place for it to turn up. Lomilad almost certainly knew that Ithilden was deceiving him and that drill was guaranteed to hurt. But it was still very realistic too. And I think that you and Ithilden are thinking alike about Sinnarn. The question is what to do about it that won't damage Sinnarn's confidence or Ithilden's relationship with him. Eilian is indeed good at this particular diplomatic task. He was not so good in dealing with the settlement where Celuwen's father was in charge, but that had other problems for him. Here, he and Bram seem to have similar senses of humor. Lock the guards out! Yes! Ha, ha! And what a good plan for Eilian's future. Celuwen might have gotten to the point by then that she'd be happy to have him out from under her feet once in a while. If you think too hard about the elven monetary system, your brain pops, so it's best not to. We know some money changed hands. At least I think we do. In The Hobbit, we hear that the men of Esgaroth occasionally quarreled with Thranduil over paying the river tolls he set. I suppose those could have been paid in trade, but money is much more convenient. I'm thinking that this part of the world is like Detroit was when I grew up there. Everyone on both sides of the border took both US and Canadian money and you were almost guaranteed to have a Canadian coin or two in your wallet at any given time. | |