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| Dreamflower's Musings by Dreamflower | 13 Review(s) |
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| KathyG | Reviewed Chapter: 2 on 9/3/2016 |
| You left out Sam's "glory and trumpet"! I'm pretty sure he spoke that phrase in just one place in The Lord of the Rings: when Frodo had mostly recovered from the effects of the Morgul knife wound. | |
| Virtuella | Reviewed Chapter: 2 on 11/29/2008 |
| Yes! Well done! It annoys me how even good fanfic writers come up with this "By Elbereth" stuff. I didn't research it, like you did, but I was pretty aware that the flavour of the books is much what you've found with little beyond "Good grief!" I wonder whether it is a habit of our current society to feelt eh need for constant expletives? | |
| Queen Galadriel | Reviewed Chapter: 2 on 10/1/2006 |
| I read this before, a long time ago, but didn't review. (I don't remember *why* I didn't; I liked it.) As someone else already said, all those explatives lined up like that *are* rather amusing! :) Still the list makes a nice reference. You know, I've always wondered about the "hullo". LOTR isn't the only place I've seen it. I have all seven radio dramatizations of the Narnia books and the British characters say it a lot. And where on earth did Tolkien get "dreat" and "confusticate"? LOL! A friend of mine used to say "drats" all the time, and I've come to do it as well, when annoyed, but "confusticate"? LOL! That's a Bilbo word if ever there was one! And I don't think I've ever told you, but I like your choice for Pippin's special word. :) *gasps* Oh dear, I'm conscience-stricken! I let something ("Great Valar!" I think it was) slip once and now I have to go take care of it! God bless, Galadriel Author Reply: "Hullo" seems to be the British colloquial form of "hello", as opposed to the more American "hi" or "hey". I frequently run across it with British authors, especially when writing children and young people. They also seem to use it as an exclamation of surprise, such as "Hullo! What's this?" As far as the word "confusticate", I found this when I googled: The word confusticate is one of a family of fancified pseudo-Latinate words that were popular in the nineteenth century. It is an elaboration of confound or confuse, and is used in the same senses of either of those words. The elements probably shouldn't be analyzed with that much care, but note that the -ate suffix pops up in similar words, such as absquatulate 'to abscond; run away'; and that the -ti- rhythmically fills out the already -ate-full word confisticate, an eighteenth-century elaborated version of confiscate, first recorded with the comment that the word was used by "the most ignorant of the vulgar only." Confusticate is first recorded in a late-nineteenth-century slang dictionary, with the comment that it is an Americanism; other examples consider it either dialect or slang. http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19981006 Knowing how JRRT loved language and old words, I'm sure this one amused him. I just thought that my Pippin might occasionally want a little stronger word than "Bless me!" from time to time, so "Thunder!" seemed appropriate. Merry's special word is canon: "Lawks!" which he says at Crickhollow when Pippin splashes all the water out of the tub. My Frodo sometimes says "My stars!" or "Stars above!" And I have a nice long list of canon words for Sam, LOL! Well, I didn't mean for everybody to run out and edit their old fic, LOL! But I'm glad if you found this helpful! | |
| Raksha The Demon | Reviewed Chapter: 2 on 11/23/2005 |
| Whoops, format error in my review - Damrod was referring to 'Mumak', not 'Mzmak'.... Author Reply: 'S okay. My special character key tends to add an unwanted gap, rather than completely changing the letter, but I do understand. | |
| Raksha The Demon | Reviewed Chapter: 2 on 11/23/2005 |
| How would you characterize the following line from Ch. 4 - Of Herbs And Stewed Rabbit - in THE TWO TOWERS: 'Ware! Ware!' cried Damrod to his companion. 'May the Valar turn him aside! Mžmak! Mžmak!' It's not an Elvish phrase, or a battle cry, but something between a plea and a prayer. Would you call it an expletive or an invocation? Anyway, this is a thoughtful, well-reasoned essay that I've enjoyed. I do hate it when fanfic writers have Tolkien characters swearing 'By Eru!'... Author Reply: I would call that an invocation--as you said, between a plea and a prayer. It's the difference between someone saying profanely "Oh God!" with a roll of the eyes, and someone saying in a heartfelt manner, "God help us!" I would consider the first an expletive, and taking God's name in vain, and the second as a genuine plea for God's help. Oh, I hate it too! It's simply not the way language worked in JRRT's Middle-earth. When I occasionally will say of a character in a fic that they were swearing or using foul language (which by the way I *never* specify) I tend to think it far more likely to be obscene or scatalogical in nature, rather than profane. | |
| Inkling | Reviewed Chapter: 2 on 11/22/2005 |
| All the expletives lined up like that make quite a funny list! Re "in the name of wonder," I believe Merry also says it in "Fog on the Barrow Downs." "Lor bless me!" always intrigued me because I assume "Lor" is short for "Lord." And yet the hobbits don't otherwise acknowledge the existence of God. I've always chalked that up to one of Tolkien's anachronisms, like the express train reference in "An Unexpected Party." Wonder what "Lawks" means...? Author Reply: They do look rather humorous all lined up like that. One of my LJ commenters said they look sort of "prissy", and I think she had a point, LOL! You may be right--I was only recording the first appearance of a phrase, so I may not have made note of subsequent ones. Story-externally, I've no doubt you are quite correct. Story-internally, I have rationalized it as a reference to the long-vanished king that will never return...uh-huh. Not sure, but it's quite expressive. Merry only says it the once, and no one else does, so in my fics, that's something he says rarely, but no one else does. | |
| Bodkin | Reviewed Chapter: 2 on 11/17/2005 |
| some of the milder and strictly British vulgarisms did not seem out of place When being vulgar, too, you have to be so careful because different terms are more or less offensive in different cultures. And with 'rated for language', my first response is to say that, without language, there would be no story, and my second is to think that if they actually completed the phrase with the indication of what sort of language they meant - 'bad language', 'vulgar language', 'indecent language' or so on - whether it would seem quite so clever. Author Reply: *snerk* Well, of course they'd use the euphemism "adult", by which is usually meant an immature and puerile treatment of subjects that mature adults prefer to consider in private. And it's funny, too, that they are so prissy over the adjective they use. The phrase should be "Rated for the use of profane or obscene language", but that would be a bit too blunt for most of them. | |
| Bodkin | Reviewed Chapter: 2 on 11/17/2005 |
| Tolkien chosen exclamations are very much to do with the sort of person he was, too. He was a Victorian-born, educated in an era when a gentleman and a scholar wouldn't have dreamt of using vulgar language - except possibly in an all-male extreme situation, like war or rugby, and certainly not in a medium that might be available to women and children. Moreover, invocations of the Valar would have blasphemous connotations, except, again, in extreme circumstances. (I think being attacked by the Nazgul might count.) One of the things in Another Place that makes me cringe - when the summary says 'rated for language'. Oh yes - terribly in character. I don't think. Author Reply: Oh I agree 100%, though I was not so much going into the *reason* for his reticence, but for the *effects* of it. I've read a few humor stories and satirical pieces where some of the milder and strictly British vulgarisms did not seem out of place, but generally speaking, I think following his policy results in a story that not only would fit his style better, but would keep the characterizations more accurate. And as I said, the lack of that sort of language means his work is timeless. And yes, "rated for language" is indeed cringeworthy. | |
| lovethosehobbits | Reviewed Chapter: 2 on 11/17/2005 |
| Thanks so much for this! I've copied it to my fics references to use in the future. Although all of my fics are AU it would be *nice* to use an exclamation that sounds fitting! tree Author Reply: I'm glad you think it will prove useful! That's why I published it--for as much as I love writing new stories, I love reading them more. But I don't like to be jolted out of Middle-earth by a misplaced word, so if this helps others, it helps me as well! | |
| Baggins Babe | Reviewed Chapter: 2 on 11/17/2005 |
| I am so enjoying your thoughts on the world of Middle-earth and yes, I try to keep most of the expletives in canon. I always loved the one of Bilbo's in the EE of 'Fellowship' - "Sticklebacks!" It seems an ideal hobbity curse, to use the name of the tiny fish British children find in rivers and streams. Also liked Treebeard's "Bless my bark!" I imagine the Gaffer had quite a few inventive ones, possibly for use when he dropped a spade on his foot or scratched himself on a rose bush. :-)) In the previous chapter, thinking about Frodo's friendships, I suspect he and Reggie were good friends as children but as they grew older they probably drifted apart because his childhood friends married and had families. Frodo then tended to spend more time with the younger ones. Just a thought! Incredible amount of research going into this, and I really enjoyed seeing the reviews turn into a discussion board. Author Reply: Ah, yes! "Sticklebacks" does sound so Bilbo-y, as did the aforementioned "Bless my buttons", LOL. When I come up with something that is not actually on the list, I try to keep it in that spirit. My Pippin, for example, often says "Thunder!" and I once in a while have Frodo say "My stars!" (which I think could be taken as a vague reference to Elbereth, and thus appropriate for Frodo). I think that such phrases as "Good grief" and "goodness gracious" while not on the list could also be appropriate. Yes, that is another factor--that as his friends who were of his own age moved on with their lives, they drifted apart. Still, I think there has to be a bit more of it in regards to Merry and Pippin. I'm glad you are enjoying these. Sometimes I want to explore things "story-externally" in a depth that can't be done "story-internally". And it began to occur to me that others might be interested when I "waste" my time that way. | |