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Stirring Rings by Larner	11 Review(s)
Radbooks	Reviewed Chapter: 7 on 9/24/2006
Saruman the thief! That started awfully early and I'm sure he came up with all sorts of wonderful justifications for it. You wrote the scenes where he went into Mordor wonderfully well - very creepy. I shudder at the thought of what is going on in the East and I hate the fact that the two Blue Wizards are headed off that way and we never hear from them again! :( I loved the idea that Saruman should have made the first jewel that held light... but that he was jealous or felt unworthy and so he destroyed it. What is it about Aule's maia, anyway? :) I'm sure that Gandalf and Tom would get along wonderfully well... they both have kind hearts. Author Reply: Yes, one to seek not to just learn information, but to own it and control it, leading him to steal scrolls as well as read them. And I try to imagine what Mordor must have been like in those days when a skeletal watch was still being kept. And he was insecure about his own accomplishments, to the extent he undervalued his creation and destroyed it lest it be compared to anything else and be found wanting. I agree about Aule's maiar--they do seem to be terribly self-centered. And I certainly agree about Tom and Gandalf. So glad to see you back.

Linda Hoyland	Reviewed Chapter: 7 on 9/18/2006
I liked the way you showed Sauraman's corruption. THe tale of the jewel was lovely. Author Reply: Yes, Saruman is at the moment quite a mix, not wishing to bow his own knee or see others doing so, but apparently somewhat intimidated by those who take power to themselves. And learning how to create jewels of Light must have been interesting. Yet while Olorin is creating his to fulfill the particular purpose of reconciling two of the Valar, Saruman must do so merely to display his power and superiority, then thinking since it isn't apparently more glorious that Olorin's it must somehow be lacking. He's a prime example of those who cut off their noses to spite their faces.

Bodkin	Reviewed Chapter: 7 on 9/12/2006
Far too many words starting with 'self' describe Saruman. Self-centred, self-deluding, self-aggrandising, self-congratulating. And, I'm afraid, stupid. He should never have been allowed to volunteer. Set up for becoming a fallen Maia from the start - completely without the perception to see the traps in his way and far too indifferent to the people he was sent to inspire. Author Reply: Oh, I agree, Bodkin--too much "self" in Saruman and not enough empathy. Allowing too much scope for power over others to those he already sees abuse such power, and not able to turn to proper wisdom himself. So glad you appreciated this chapter.

French Pony	Reviewed Chapter: 7 on 9/12/2006
Yes, Curumo is definitely learning more than is good for him. It's interesting; he has all these object lessons in good and evil laid out before him, and he consistently misreads them. One might almost think he'd been doing it on purpose, except that he retains just enough self-delusion to imagine that he's still working against Sauron. I guess that self-delusion is enough to persuade other people of his wisdom. Author Reply: I tend to agree that Curumo's self-delusion tended to mask his total lack of proper mindset both from himself and from others. Yes, learning too much as well as too little of what he OUGHT to be realizing.

SurgicalSteel	Reviewed Chapter: 7 on 9/12/2006
Still very interesting characterization of Saruman - but I'm beginning to be surprised that anyone ever trusted him and farther than they could throw him. Author Reply: I tend to agree; but the fact he fairly early on was doing his best to convince all that the Ring itself was lost forever when he had reason to know it wasn't is a good indication he was not interested in truly cooperating with others from an early point in his career. It says that Saruman made several visits to the East during his time in Middle Earth; that he would have met Pallando and Alatar as they started their own journey into the lands there seemed logical; that he'd give such advice but without indicating they should truly work for promoting responsible and benificient government seemed characteristic of how I see him. Thanks for the feedback.

FantasyFan	Reviewed Chapter: 7 on 9/11/2006
This is a fascinating story. I wonder if there ever was any hope for Saruman. He is indifferent to cruelty, he is indifferent to theft, he is indifferent to political machinations, he is indifferent to suffering and death (being immortal, maybe this last could be forgiven, but for the layer of contempt that is under the indifference). He is fascinated by the cunning and manpulativeness of Sauron. I think he'll find that scroll he stole valuable when he thinks of manipulating Theoden, many years later. Frodo pities him, and says that he was great once, and hopes that he might find his own redemption, but I don't know that he ever was great. Cunning, brilliant even, but entirely amoral in his actions, even as he proclaims his intent to be pure. What a contrast between him and Gandalf, who is entirely without ambition, and thus is open to wonder and humor and counsel. I wonder that Gandalf ever trusted him? Author Reply: There might have been hope for Saruman; but he himself decided that to defeat Sauron he need to appropriate Sauron's Ring. He's making himself indifferent to cruelty, and already is seeing knowledge of Sauron and the making of the Rings as his own personal responsibility and right, and so allows himself to take what wasn't his to begin with. Amorality is so often a feature of those who are seen as great and who rise to high office--a sad truth in our world. As for Gandalf--it's hard to say why Saruman was ever seen as trustworthy in his eyes--save I suspect we'll see some of the conversations that led to such a perception along the way. And there's certainly the contrast to be seen between the two of them.

Kitty	Reviewed Chapter: 7 on 9/11/2006
Now I don’t only despise Saruman, I’m condemning him more and more. He did steal to gain knowledge and didn’t anything to even try and help this poor man? Disgusting. And the story about him and Olórin ... somehow it seems very typical of Saruman to destroy his own work out of fear it could be not better than that of Olórin. Really, the Valar should have refused to take his offer to go, suspecting the outcome. Saruman may want to defeat Sauron, but obviously only if he himself is the hero who brings Sauron and his whole host down in the end, and men shouldn’t dare to want to do the same?? Didn’t he listen to why he was sent to Middle-earth in the first place? If Galadriel and Gandalf have been known even a part of this all, I wonder more and more why they were so surprised about his treachery in the end. Loved Gandalf defeating Old Man Willow through his humour and singing. Yes, that is our Gandalf – and the great difference to Saruman! And it was nice to see him with Tom Bombadil. Author Reply: I suspect that Curumo over the years did his best to show only his wisdom and garnered knowledge publically, and used the power of his voice judiciously and increasingly as time went on. I also suspect that, as Bodkin points out, there is too much "self" in Saruman's view of himself and his role in Middle Earth, and that he disregards how much all within Middle Earth need to unite to bring down Sauron this second time. After all, it took the coming of the Valar to defeat Morgoth in the end; that he'd decide it was his personal duty to destroy Sauron would be all too likely, I suspect. And I like to think that Gandalf's own appreciation of humor and music would allow him to slip by the malicious tree at the heart of the Old Forest, and that Tom would appreciate that fact as well. Thanks so much for the feedback.

Queen Galadriel	Reviewed Chapter: 7 on 9/11/2006
So, Saruman and Sauron worked side by side at one time, did they? Chilling. And even more so that Saruman would go into Mordor itself for less than good reasons. Still, I don't think he really realises where he's headed. This fascination with Sauron's abilities is not a good thing, and I think he ought to at least realise that, but he's obviously being corrupted already. That one of the Maiar would do something as petty as stealing a scroll and then be foolish enough to copy and donate it back, is appalling! Still, he isn't wholly evil yet, and his advice to the Blue Wizards about how to try to help the people of the East (who so obviously need help) is good. And it's good that he didn't stick around after what he saw in that judgement. That poor man! Sounds like Radagast is doing well, though. Gandalf aught to have been the leader from the beginning; he has the true compassion, humour, and humility for the task. And ah! he's found what will be the Shire! :) God bless, Galadriel Author Reply: According to Unfinished Tales Saruman and Sauron both followed particularly after Aule, and that this was where Sauron learned of the means to craft Rings of Power. I've always been suspicious of why, then, it was he needed to have the help of Celebrimbor to create the Rings. As for the wisdom he dispenses to the Blue Wizards--on the surface it appears fine; but he certainly doesn't indicate they need to use what influence they can to support beneficient government from the beginning, I fear. But he's not fully evil--just terribly self-absorbed and self-important. But instead of helping the one brother he just lets it go. Just as he didn't encourage the wisdom of the two closest to the royal line of Rhuadar to be accepted, now he doesn't reprove the selfishness of the self-made Ghantsi. And I think that Gandalf, having seen the beauty of those lands that formerly belonged to Cardolan, would wish to see them properly settled by a folk that would bring out their best. And Radagast was already at work as he was able and best suited to work.

Lee	Reviewed Chapter: 7 on 9/11/2006
Curumo makes my skin crawl, really he does. And I mean that in the best possible way. You're a marvellous writer! Off topic: I recall another review I read for King's Commision, I think, that dealt with where you got all the names for your OC's. I thought you might be interested in a cool little program called "Everchanging Book of Names" or EBoN, that generates random names based on rule sets. Available for free in the normal download are Sindarin, Quenya, Adûnaic, Westron, Black Speech, Khuzdûl and Valarin from Tolkien's world, as well as Finnish, Viking, Arthurian and Latin. It's cool to play with, even if you're not interested in using it for your stories. Find it at http://ebon.uni.cc Author Reply: Oh, thanks for the link--I'll have to check it out, particularly as I work harder at manufacturing Adunaic names for the northern Dunedain. And that someone had managed to produce a program that does what I've been working at manually is interesting, and I'm glad for it! And thank you so much for your praise. I appreciate it.

Dreamflower	Reviewed Chapter: 7 on 9/11/2006
Fascinating look at the workings of Saruman's downfall. Of course, with the attitude he had, it was pretty much inevitable, but clearly he left himself open to all sorts of influences around him--the scrolls with their half-hints, Mordor and Barad-dur, the wicked rulers in the East. I was fascinated by the exchange with the dying brother of the Ghantsi (Khan?) and wondered if it was that in dying he could see some of the strange guests true nature or if he was simply contemptuous of someone who failed to speak out. I wonder what the Blue Wizards will make of the suggestions from Saruman on what to do--it's advice that could cut both ways, depending on who they find to lead such a kingdom... And I also liked the tale of Olorin's making a jewel of light, and Curumo's efforts to best it, and how neither of them completely succeeded. Is that tale hinted of in canon, or one of your own? It seems very "JRRT" to me... And to see the meeting between Gandalf and Tom was delightful! Author Reply: I do twist our-world words at times to meet the needs of Middle Earth, as you know. Whether the dying brother sees Curumo's true nature or only disparages one he sees as unwilling to display honor and interfere in such injustice is hard to say. And you are SO right about the advice offered Pallando and Alatar being capable of cutting both ways. The story of the gems of light is strictly my own, and I'm deeply honored that you so compare it to the Master's own work--the highest compliment! Thank you so much, Dreamflower. And I think that in many ways Tom and Gandalf had a lot in common, although with his own focus on his task Gandalf didn't have a lot of time to spend with the Eldest; that last visit as the Hobbits returned to the Shire must have been appreciated by both. And am so glad you found it delightful.

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