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They Did Not Take Root In That Land by perelleth	9 Review(s)
elliska	Reviewed Chapter: 4 on 3/18/2007
Wow, finding out what happened to Maentêw...the whole conversation about Annatar...that was pretty scary. Well done! If I were Oropher, though, to hear all Maentêw and Amdir knew without telling Oropher, I would have been just as hot as he was. No wonder he refused to follow them in the Last Alliance if that is what he dealt with before it. And: It was not I who used to lead secret forays into Eöl’s forge when we were but shootings, if my memory serves me well… I love the thought of this! But I absolutely loved Oropher and the chieftain! That was priceless. Author Reply: As I told you in the review before, I think that I am settling for an oropher who voluntarily retired from politics until he was forced by events to come back. ANd the more I think of it, the more I believe that perhaps his charge was not forced by his dislike of Gil-galad but rather by what his own stubborn, independent people would expect of a Sindar leader they had allowed to lead them...

erunyauve	Reviewed Chapter: 4 on 1/8/2007
>>I do not know for sure, but for what I have gleaned, the Mírdain have been meddling with the breath of earth and water and stone, binding it in the forge into metals to which the fëa of the wielder is also tied –following Annatar’s secret knowledge. Tolkien states that Annatar was successful in lands outside Lindon (though most successful in Eregion), and ordinarily, I would take that to imply that he made inroads into Oropher and Amdil's lands, given that we haven't much else from which to choose. I've always thought, for the reason you give above, that Annatar wouldn't have had anything Oropher would want. >>“but it seems that all of us are but pale reflections of a more glorious past,” he finished with hardly disguised bitterness. I quite like your interpretation of Gil-galad. He tends to be portrayed with a sort of distant perfection rather than as a character with feelings and failures, and you've done the latter quite well. I have to say again that I'm finding your interpretation of these years so interesting. I've been writing the same time period with very different results (in part because I decided not to use the revolt against Galadriel and Celeborn and instead to go with another version). I like the way you've portrayed Celebrimbor as aloof to the whole thing, being consumed by his artistic aims - that chimes with Tolkien's observation that he had an 'almost dwarvish obsession with crafts'. You do a wonderful job of showing rather than telling. Author Reply: Thank-you, erunyauve! As we know, Sauron was strring in Middle earth since around year 500, so I agree that he might have made some contact with the Wood elves. As you point out, he would not have anything Oropher wished, and also the other way. ORopher discusses that with Gil-galad in next chapter! :-) I'm glad that you like this GIl-galad. I think he is one fo those who did what needed be done, yet who was not free of self doubt, temptations short temper, and other different of emotions. I pictured him as more light hearted in the previous story, but the times have grown darker. I sticked to " COncerning Galadriel and Celeborn" because it offered the right framework for the things I had in mind, but there are so mnay different versions about what happened in the Second Age that all things are possible. I'm glad to know that you too are writing in this period.

meckinock	Reviewed Chapter: 4 on 1/7/2007
I really enjoyed Oropher's conversation with Maentew about Annatar. It was interesting getting a first-hand account from someone who had actually fallen for the deception. Usually in Tolkien we only get to hear from the ones who are able to say "Told you that guy was no good!" There's something so true in his assertion, “You would have fallen for his tricks as well, had you been there and a wise and powerful being came and promised to unveil before you the hidden words that govern stone and root, and the fabric of time, so you would be able to arrest decay and ban suffering from your beloved forest” . Certainly many did, didn't they? Distinguishing evil from good is such a fundamental theme of Tolkien, running clear through to the Ring War, when Frodo says about Aragorn that a spy of the Enemy would seem fairer and feel fouler, or when Aragorn tells Eomer that it is a man's part to discern [good and ill] as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house. I love seeing characters of all ages and races struggle with the same dilemmas. But with this bunch, the personalities and politics are fascinating, too, as fascinating as the realization that something must be done is watching everyone come to grips with what that means for him. And I really enjoyed Elrond's bow practice with Glorfindel. Author Reply: THank-you Meckinock. The whole issue in Eregion was a bitter fall for the Mirdain, and I wanted exactly that look upon the events, of one who managed to see it from within and see the errors of their ways, yet also understand the almost inevitability of it while being caught up in that net. I really love that quote for Aragorn. Poor Eomer indeed, uet he got what he deserved! :-) Poor GLorfindel is in need of a good, uncomplicated ally in LIndon.. and he and Elrond had the same sense of humour...or perhaps the same certinty about their own place in the scheme of things. Glad you are still enjoying.

French Pony	Reviewed Chapter: 4 on 1/7/2007
All in all, Oropher seems to be doing pretty well. He shows himself to be far more flexible than any of his companions would be willing to grant him, pragmatic almost to a fault. He must feel that he's being constantly lied to and betrayed on all sides, especially with this news of Annatar and Celebrimbor and all the political machinations going on in the world around him. When you look at it his way, it does seem like a monumentally dumb idea to learn to make rings bound up so intimately with the maker's personality. Author Reply: it does seem like a monumentally dumb idea to learn to make rings bound up so intimately with the maker's personality Indeed. Seen from a distance, that's it. I bet when they were deep in their research and tests they could not see that little detail... :-) Thanks for stopping by...

Redheredh	Reviewed Chapter: 4 on 1/6/2007
This was a very clever chapter!! Secrets and intelligence are important advantages in wartime and you touch on that, but you also foster an atmosphere of how the past generation had mighty knowledge and it has faded in current times. Ah, the allure of power... I really liked starting off with Oropher and Maentwe reconciliation, 'cause you knew how very curious I was about what had happened to the poor elf and why. Their personal relationship and connected histories are incredibly intriguing. I like that Maentwe was a Sindarin smith (almost as much as I appreciate Erestor being Nandor) and both friends had contact with Eol. The way you used that past secret to reveal a present one was very clever indeed! However, it sounds as if it will be a real surprise when Annatar turns out to be, not just a minion of the Dark Enemy, but his first lieutenant! Also, I liked how events in Gondolin are viewed with some scepticism. Perhaps Eol's ultimate fate there is held against the Noldor rulers? Even though he might have deserved it... Or blaming Meglin for what happened, even though he might have done exactly what they claim he did... Very interesting. Brilliant idea that Annatar was using the Mirdain, not just to make rings, but stockpile better armaments than his enslaved smiths could produce! The advancements being made in all the arts in this city would encourage him to take additional advantage while having to maintain a presence there, since kept from exerting his influence inside Lindon itself. It makes me wonder if he changed his strategy after Gil-galad sent him away. Maentwe proves to be a good character to explain to Oropher and the reader how things are going in Eregion and why. I especially like his lesson on the loss of freedom and the harm of isolationism, whether political or scientific. Consequences that Oropher naturally understands but he had to be brought around to admitting. And a Clever!Amdir as well. Good show. Two nit-picks though - Of course! but totally imho - ;) There was never any question of the Misty Mountains offering protection from the growing eastern evil. That is why Celeborn and Galadriel were building their influence in Lorinand and Oropher had reason to band with Amdir. In one variation of their history, that is exactly what happens - Celeborn fortifies Lothlorien and Galadriel stays in Lindon where it should have been safe. The Three Rings lured Sauron into attacking Eregion and bypassing lands in the Anduin valley. He went through Eriador and on to Lindon for the same reason - in pursuit of the elven-rings. The effect of events in the north around the Lonely Mountain were negligible at this time. The Numenoreans were not yet a target of Sauron's. Their participation against him put them in his sights earlier than they might otherwise have been. I am curious if you think the High Pass was mapped before or after the Second Age, because I agree with you that northern Eriador was not widely explored. Good thing when a refuge (which became Imladris) was needed. Maentew's description of Annatar's binding natural powers into metal is a little off. There have been many discussions about Tolkien's brand of magic. He says himself that elves invested themselves into their creations. That was normal. Tapping into the power of their heart and spirit to make powerful spells were not beyond them. But, capturing Light (the purified power of creation) was only achieved by a few like Feanor. And Celebimbor in a lesser fashion. The three rings are an incarnation of the Silmarillion. But, Sauron's ring was an attempt to capture the Flame Imperishable (the source of creation) for his own use. You make Glorfinedel a very believable agent of the Valar. I support Gil-galad's reaction to the his arrival and what it really means! I think you tapped into the same suspicion he felt towards Annatar. Glorfindel's opinion of Elrond was edifying, though. Like that alot too. Their conversation was very entertaining! I love the way you handle all the elves' interactions - in all your stories! Nice that Oropher now knows about Glorfindel and that it made him feel more comfortable. Enough to show off, anyway! His encounter with Baghan was priceless! Now, I want to reread about the Drudain and think about Pukal-men! What you did with horses and the ride was excellent. Love the way you use such details to create a visual and emotional setting that lends connotation to what the characters are actually saying. In truth, this chapter was about Oropher coming to a more enlightened understanding with everyone, and probably - aside from the clever ideas! - why I particularly liked it. Your Oropher is not that much like mine, but with this chapter, I would not mind if he was. Hmmm, I probably should have emailed... just was too lazy to do both a review and a letter. My apologies... Author Reply: Thank-you Redheredh! And your reviews are welcome this way. I see no reason to double the work, and it is always a pleasure to test the soundness of my own assumptions and receive feedback and nitpicking... I am glad you like Maentew. He came to life in " What's left behind" as LEgolas' elder brother's chief assistant, the one who helped him govern Mirkwood when Thranduil and Oropher went to the War of the Last Alliance. His name means something like "skilled writing" so I pictured him as another Sinda who had lived in Doriath. Since I presume that forging weapons was also a pastime of the Grey Elves, I made him a warrior and a smith, and I pictured his story nback to the origins of his friendhip with Oropher. Regarding your observations.. Well, as I see it the ELves had been testing all possibilities from whence an attack might come, and what forces the enemy could gather to his side. IN the essay about Dwarves in "Peoples of M-e" there is a wonderful part about how the dwarves of the Ered Luin travelled and traded with the East as well as West while Beleriand survived, so those of Nogrod would have had trade agreements and routes with the Men than even during the first age lived that side of the mountains. After the fall of Morgoth, these men continued to trade with dwarven lesser mansions south of NOgrod, so I assumed that ther would be less important trade routes form Belegost north, to Mount GUndaghad and then south, with passes only known to them. THat essay clearly states that these trade began to dwindle after the stirring of the shadow in the S.A, and orcs ended up regaining the northern part of the Misty MOuntains, so I asume that is what Maentew is fearing at this point, far as the event is in time, though they cannot know that. In UT it also states that Sauron retreated to Mordor and made his stronghold there " to counteract the disembarkings of the NUmenoreans to the south, even to Harad." SO even if he only considerd them a priority after they actually suppported GIl-galad in the first war in Eriador, he was already wary of them. But then, we are again following Maentew and Celeborn's musings. Annatar made an excuse for having the MIRdain forging weapons, and they automatically assumed that he plotted war against the numenoreans...Anyway, Gil-galad and Oropher are having another geographical discussion in the next chapter. Regarding the Mirdain and Annatar's luring.. well, as I told BOdkin, I posted this quite unpolished, because I wanted to post it before travelling, and it shows perhaps in that some things are not clear enough. MAentew says some paragraphs above that he began distrusting Annatar because of will of dominiation, he twisted the nature of things to serve his own purpose, and we know that elves, while actaully pouring themselves into the things they made, they pursued an aesthetic goal, not domination. So what would be the difference in the techniques Annatar was showing to the MIrdain, enough for Oropher to perceive that it was sickening and for MAentew to admit it when looking from the distance? Annatar would be teaching them how to use that power to enslave the being of the natural elements and that of the wielder, more or less. I am thrilled that you liked the Druedain. I always had a soft spot for them, and I love that essay. Your Oropher is not that much like mine, but with this chapter, I would not mind if he was. Now, you made my day! :-) See, I should have e mailed you as well, but I am in a hurry! THanks again.

daw the minstrel	Reviewed Chapter: 4 on 1/6/2007
I lived the portrayal of the Druedain. I'd not seen them in fanfic before, at least not like this. Oropher is an interesting person. You've given him a nice range of feelings--arrogance, temper, regret, prejudice--and yet mostly concern for his people and a very sharp intelligence. I love Gil-galad. He's such a noble figure. Author Reply: Thank'you Daw. I too find that the Druedain are charming characters, one of those races doomed to disappear with the Age of Men. It always impressed me to see their nobility when they help the Rohirrim reach Gondor, and the only payment they ask is that the MEn stoped hunting them like beasts... I love Gil-galad. He's such a noble figure I like the character a lot as well. Actually I think these two tales came out as a way to explore his character through some of the conflicts he had to confront...

Nilmandra	Reviewed Chapter: 4 on 1/6/2007
I forgot to add: Using galvorn was a brilliant touch to helping Maentwe see that Annatar was more than he claimed.. that tie to Eol and Maeglin and the fall of Gondolin was a superb way to tie Sauron's long history with the elves and Morgoth together, and ultimately to the events that are now to come. Author Reply: Thank-you! I'm thrilled that you picked that up! :-) The story of Annatar and the Mirdain is very interesting. I was trying to figure how it oculd have come to happen, what secrets he could have used to lure them under his sway... the science of the Rings, but also weapon forging, without worrying what use those would be put to... A sad moment that one as well, and as you say, directly linking Sauron with Morgoth and the long battle of elves against the Dark Enemy.

Nilmandra	Reviewed Chapter: 4 on 1/6/2007
Wonderful chapter, Perelleth. I love your Oropher more and more, as we see that underneath the brash arrogance and provoking words, is someone with a keener mind and better understanding than one might think. He comes to learn what is at risk for Middle-earth as well as his people. For all that he mocks and provokes Gil-galad, there is also respect for the young king. Glorfindel is amusing as well, and I like that you had him not accepted or liked on arrival. Writing from Elrond and Glorfindel's pov, I don't think I could do that! But the approach of this story is perfect for all these conflicts. What strikes me again, as ofen happens with your writing, is the depth to which you understand people. You see deeper than the surface, yet can present both the surface and the depth of their personalities and issue well. Author Reply: Thank-you, Nilmandra. I had trouble shaping this tale, for it insisted on turning out as a series of conversations, and for all the different characters, the situation is too ominous and darkened to keep up with the light tone of the prequel. The Second Age interests me, what happened in Eregion, how the Wood elves perceived it and how the small realm of LIndon would prepare for the upcoming darkness. I came up with an Oropher that feels not the need to be nice to everyone at every moment, but who is a wise, brave and intelligent leader, burnt out by his many lost battles. He lived through the fall of Doriath, and then saw the Fall of Sirion, and he is burdened by guilt, as if he cold have done more. And now a new shadow comes and deep inside he knows that keeping away from it all will not serve his purpose -protecting his people. And Maentew knows him well, and managed to pierce his shell efficiently. And in the middle of that, Happy Glorfindel pops out of thin air. Adjusting to that powerful prsence could not have been easy, with all the clear light and understanding and wisdom of one untainted, while confronting them, troubled, and worried and tainted by Arda marred. He and Gil-galad will have their cathartic conversation in the next chapter... if I manage to round their argument properly.

Bodkin	Reviewed Chapter: 4 on 1/6/2007
Lovely. Oropher's grown up. And he's listening to what people - and trees - are saying. Although I enjoyed hearing that Amdir had resorted to sneakiness to get Oropher to be in a position where he would have to listen and learn. I just hope he learns what Gil-galad has to offer. And I'm glad he's talked with Maentew - and that the man was able to disconcert him! Not a very coherent review - but I just wanted to get back to you quickly. I'm going back to read it again now! Author Reply: Thank you, Bodkin! I was in a rush to polish it up, because next weeks I fear will be too hectic, so it is a bit rough around the edges, I've noticed re reading after posting. Seeing these times through Oropher's eyes (and Glorfindel's marginally) has been very enlightening to me, how it would be perceived from the borders of the events, by people who would be actually dragged into trouble. And I think that Oropher was a well-known and respected character that needed a bit of...careful handling. Knowing how he cared under his irksome surface, Amdír just had to manoeuvre him a bit to get him on the road and seeing for himself what was actually brewing up in Middle earth...so the strategist would be awakened. Glad you liked it.

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