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Stirring Rings by Larner	9 Review(s)
Imrahil	Reviewed Chapter: 22 on 8/27/2016
I won't say much on this chapter, as the Kingship Succession of TA 1945 is hotly debated elsewhere. For my part, I feel the Dunedain of Gondor made the only reasonable choice available to them. A stranger who had never set foot in Gondor could never be accepted as King, not when he had done nothing to aid Gondor in its hour of need and when other more suitable candidates remained, Aragon was crowned due to his great deeds in aiding Gondor and that there were no other Royals to oppose him. Earnil received the Crown with the approval of all the Dunedain in Gondor, but your portrayal of his reluctance seems unfounded. "The crown was claimed by Eärnil, the victorious captain; and it was granted to him with the approval of all the Dúnedain" Earnil claimed the crown. That much is obvious. The victorious captain wanted to be King and took the crown with both hands. You don't go very deep into Earnil's character and the reader doesn't understand this proud Lord of the Dunedain would want to serve a stranger rather than rule himself. After all, it's Earnil who saves Gondor and corrects the failure of Onodher. Arvedui does nothing to really help Gondor in its hour of need. It is no wonder that Pelendur and the Council denied him, your interjection of Pelendur's unfounded personal jealousy notwithstanding. I had not intended to address that, but your addition of personal jealousy to Pelendur's motivations seems to stand out from Tolkien's legendarium. That is not a theme that the Professor included very often. Author Reply: We know that Ondoher's daughter Firiel married Arvedui, heir to the King of Arnor. It is most likely that Gandalf helped to broker that marriage, and that he would serve to ferry correspondence between the two royal houses between daughter and her family by birth. I am certain that in the years of Ondoher's reign Gandalf was a frequent visitor to Gondor, particularly as it was predicted that should the lineage of Ondoher fail within Gondor, it was to the advantage of both lands that the King of Arnor should claim both crowns. Once Ondoher and his two sons were gone, the prediction became stronger and more defined--if Arvedui should be successful in making his claim on Gondor's throne as well as that of Arnor, then both lands would survive and bloom. What of this prediction made by Malbeth was known or accepted within the southern kingdom we don't know, but Gandalf did know of it and would undoubtedly have supported Arvedui's claim, particularly if it also included that Arvedui would work alongside his wife, who was the remaining child of Ondoher, and as their son would have a legitimate claim to the throne as Ondoher's grandson. I chose to look at Earnil as an honorable man who would possibly recognize that perhaps it was time to change the law in Gondor to accept the claims of a daughter as had been allowed in time in Numenor. And I am sorry that you don't like my characterization of Pelendur; but as it is plain in the Master's writing that it was Pelendur's own decision not to recognize the claim of Arvedui and Firiel, I simply see a degree of misogyny and jealousy in his nature. I do not see that jealousy as being unfounded, particularly if he'd hoped to marry Firiel himself. But certainly once it was accepted within Gondor that Arvedui's claim on behalf of his marriage to Ondoher's daughter was being dismissed. Earnil was the only acceptable claimant left and he'd have accepted the Winged Crown as his due. Nor do I believe that Arnor didn't offer what help it could send, but that in its straitened condition it could do little but to send a small force to Ondoher's assistance, as I indicated in the text of my story in its last chapter and as happened with the Grey Company when it joined Aragorn for the final battles with Mordor. Also, it is most likely that Arvedui HAD set foot within Gondor, as the marriage was most likely held in Firiel's father's court. As for jealousy not being one Tolkien included very often--well, the fact is that as a motivation it is part of his writings both within and without LOTR. Gondolin fell in large part due to jealousy shown by Turgon's nephew when Idril married Tuor, a "mere" man; Erendis was jealous of her husband's love of the Sea; Grima was willing to sell his honor for the chance to take Eowyn as his own; the jealousy known by the Sackville-Bagginses of Bilbo and Frodo led in the end to the Time of Troubles with Lotho making himself dictator to the Shire. Here I must disagree with you that Pelendur ought not to have been seen as possibly jealous. I don't think he wished to be King himself; but he could very likely have hated any other who married the woman he very well might have wished to claim as his own wife. Author Reply: I wished to add this: On FF.n someone identifying him/herself as "Pelendur" wrote much the same as you have of how Pelendur the Steward of Gondor was well within his rights to dismiss the claim of Arvedui. I don't know that you wrote those comments as "Pelendur," but at least you and "Pelendur" are most likely known to one another and are part of a group given to much discussion of this period of time. Yes, from the point of view of Pelendur himself he was right to favor Earnil, a Gondorian of royal extraction. But, from the point of view of the whole history of the remains of the former realm ruled jointly by Elendil and his two sons, his was probably not the right one, particularly as prophecies indicated both lands would suffer if Arvedui's claim as not accepted. Well, it wasn't, and within two generations Gondor was a kingdom with no king and Arnor was left with a king who denied himself his proper title as he had no viable kingdom left to rule; and it was another thousand years before Aragorn rose to reunite the realm of his ancestors and to rule both as Elessar.

Agape4Gondor	Reviewed Chapter: 22 on 7/20/2012
I can't believe that Pelendur would go against such council. But did not the greater being, Feanor, fight good and true council, to the fall of his own household. One of the stupidest decisions ever made by Man. Pelendur's folly. Well written. Bravo! Author Reply: And I thank you! Yes, Pelendur was apparently averse to what I'm certain he saw as outside interference. Yes, a stupid decision, but one it appears he was fated to make.

Kitty	Reviewed Chapter: 22 on 9/9/2007
Loved it to have not only Elrond and the contingent of Imladris accompanying Arvedui, but the Galadhrim and Silvan elves as well. It gave so much more meaning to the claim. Sorry, but I can’t help it – Pelendur was an idiot, and his own petty motives don’t help at all. Arvedui’s parting words hit the nail on the head. A pity Eärnil didn’t arrive earlier, maybe some of the counselours would have decided differently then. But well, Tolkien didn’t allow it sigh Now I am wondering how things would have gone if Gondor had accepted the claim for the throne. It’s true – Pelendur has no idea how badly his envy and arrogance affected two realms and countless generations of people. In hindsight he has a lot to answer for. Author Reply: So much evil might have been avoided had Gondor actually accepted Arvedui, I think. Elrond had inherited his family's prescient tendencies, and all know that Galadriel was a seer of note, as was Cirdan. That they would wish to see the foreseen evil, however vague their awareness of how evil it would be, avoided at all costs seems very likely. Pelendur probably commanded a fair following, particularly among the younger lords of the realm; that he would end up swaying the Council against Arvedui's suit before Earnil could arrive to perhaps influence it in the opposite direction just seemed likely. But as the Master indicated that Arvedui wasn't accepted and greatly due to Pelendur's influence, this just seemed a very likely scenario. And it would be fun to play around in Pelendur's head a bit--but unfortunately if I did I'd likely never get this finished! Heh!

Raksha The Demon	Reviewed Chapter: 22 on 9/9/2007
One receives and one bestows; one remains while his brother goes. - I recognize Faramir as the one who remains while his brother goes; but who receives and who bestows? A lot of misery might have been avoided if Malbeth had had a good interpreter, or been sober/sane when he made all these prophecies, LOL. Of course, then there wouldn't have been much of a story; but maybe he wouldn't have been heeded anyway. Earnil sounds like a good, sensible person, rather than just a warlord out for more power. I can only hope Firiel had a good life in exile, but it sounds like she loved her husband and did very well up in the north country... Author Reply: I'll let you interpret that one as you will. Why prophets must always be so obscure I have no idea, but so the history of them tends to show. Those who spoke more plainly, like Cassandra, tended not to be very popular--maybe that's why most tended to make their prophecies obscure, that by the time the reality of them hit those hearing the prophecy they were too busy dealing with what was happening to blame the messenger. We know that Earnil sent word to Arvedui he would honor the treaty forged between Aranarth and Ondoher and that Earnur came with his fleet to the last great war between Arnor and Angmar; I suspect that Earnil was a far nobler man than was Pelendur. And I do think that Firiel must have loved her husband to agree to go so far from her homeland. Author Reply: I'll let you interpret that one as you will. Why prophets must always be so obscure I have no idea, but so the history of them tends to show. Those who spoke more plainly, like Cassandra, tended not to be very popular--maybe that's why most tended to make their prophecies obscure, that by the time the reality of them hit those hearing the prophecy they were too busy dealing with what was happening to blame the messenger. We know that Earnil sent word to Arvedui he would honor the treaty forged between Aranarth and Ondoher and that Earnur came with his fleet to the last great war between Arnor and Angmar; I suspect that Earnil was a far nobler man than was Pelendur. And I do think that Firiel must have loved her husband to agree to go so far from her homeland.

Linda Hoyland	Reviewed Chapter: 22 on 9/7/2007
Pelendur's thwarted desires have led to a heavy price for Gondor,but at least Firiel did not end up with such a husband !Was the prophecy yours or Tolkien's? A gripping chapter which I enjoyed. Author Reply: Yes, Pelendur has given Gondor and Arnor both reason all too soon to grieve; but Firiel is undoubtedly better off with Arvedui than with the Steward of Gondor. I'm so flattered you'd think that Tolkien's! Oh, it is indeed my own. Thanks so for the comments, Linda!

harrowcat	Reviewed Chapter: 22 on 9/6/2007
Great chapter Larner. Love the way that you are winding 'family' traits into the key people. And the prophecy is fantastically done. Pray I find my replacement drivers licence. I know I put it somewhere 'safe'. But that was before my Landlord took my roomapart to paint and replace the carpet. It is great now it is done but my personal possessions are a mess! Author Reply: The traits of the descendants of Earendil were pretty well known, particularly the gift of healing. Personally I suspect the ability to read the hearts of those with whom the individual was speaking was probably one of the gifts of the line of Kings as much as it was fairly common in the House of Hurin, as it manifested in Faramir and Denethor; Aragorn and Faramir must have found that familiar in one another. And I suspect these gifts were strongest in those who ACTED with the nobility expected of Kings, and would be as noticeable in those who had some mixed blood as in those of "pure" blood--that personality were stronger determiners than breeding, if you will. I doubt, for example, that Castimir, who wrongfully slew the son of Eldecar, would have manifested much in the way of healing ability, having chosen self-centeredness and self-will in preference to true caring for the needs of the people of Gondor. Am so glad you, too, appreciate the prophecy. Am praying you find your license. Know about how "safe" places can mean "safe" from us; and then when other people see to it that your things are being mucked about with, whether they're moving them around or forcing you to move them without time to do so in an orderly manner, that makes matters worse. Have fun putting things to rights. And thanks for the feedback.

SurgicalSteel	Reviewed Chapter: 22 on 9/6/2007
As plausible a reason as any for Pelendur rejecting Arvedui's claim - misogynistic attitudes and jealousy. Neatly done. Author Reply: Yes, as plausible an any indeed. And thanks so for the feedback.

shirebound	Reviewed Chapter: 22 on 9/6/2007
The prophecy is wonderful! Clear enough for those with 'hindsight', yet obscure even to wizards living through such troubled times. Author Reply: Am glad you, too, like the prophecy. Yes, very obscure at the time, and what a marvel when he sees it coming true! Thanks so, Shirebound.

Dreamflower	Reviewed Chapter: 22 on 9/6/2007
A very interesting interpretation of the coming of the Kin-strife in Gondor. It's a shame that things fell out the way they did--and yet it was inevitable, as well. I liked the prophecy! Very well done--hints enough to those of us who know the full story, but completely obscure to thsoe who don't. Author Reply: Not exactly the kin-strife--more the time comes when Gondor will be a kingdom with no king, and Arnor will devolve to a king with no true kingdom, but instead a land in which the King's kinfolk still try to defend all. But I'm glad you find the scenario at least interesting. There had to be some overriding reason Pelendur opposed Arvedui's claim. And am glad you like the prophecy. Yes, one greatly obscure to those who have just heard it. (But it's fairly easy to prophecy in hindsight, isn't it? Heh!)

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