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| Destiny's Child by Mirkwoodmaiden | 7 Review(s) |
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| Lindelea | Reviewed Chapter: 40 on 11/23/2025 |
| Sorry to spam you, but after looking over my "Faramir: film vs book" review, I would change "noble but despairing Man" to "noble but resigned Man" in the book. When he volunteers to defend the River crossing, he sounds more resigned than despairing – maybe a subtle nuance, but the distinction feels important to me in terms of sketching his character. "resigned" because he knows the odds. Moments before Denethor issues his challenge to the captains attending the Council meeting, Faramir himself sums up the situation, revealing his capabilities as a military strategist and competent captain: ‘That was but a trial,’ said Faramir. ‘Today we may make the Enemy pay ten times our loss at the passage and yet rue the exchange. For he can afford to lose a host better than we to lose a company. And the retreat of those that we put out far afield will be perilous, if he wins across in force.’ Thus, "resigned" speaks to his character, going forth to do his best, better than the term "despairing", which implies throwing his life away for no good reason except maybe to gratify his father somehow – which also does a disservice to Denethor IMHO. Faramir strikes me as too well-grounded to be a people-pleaser, if that makes sense. (Don't get me started on how the filmmakers distorted Denethor's portrayal for dramatic flair or whatever their reasons were...) Author Reply: Lin! Not to worry. I like SPAM. well spam from you, the other kind is meat for the truly desperate! LOL! This is a lengthy response and written after a fashion like the Literature essays that I wrote way too many of at University, which strangely I enjoyed writing??? I like the idea of Faramir’s acceptance of assaulting Osgiliath likened to Frodo’s acceptance of the Ring journey. I think that "resigned” is a good description of Faramir. But that is the emotion that I think Faramir in the film is displaying when he and his riders are leaving Minas Tirith. Also that is what I hear when this exchange happens: “So be it,’ said Faramir. ‘So be it!’ cried Denethor. ‘But not with your death only, Lord Faramir: with the death also of your father, and of all your people, whom it is your part to protect now that Boromir is gone.’ ‘Do you wish then,’ said Faramir, ‘that our places had been exchanged?’ ‘Yes, I wish that indeed,’ said Denethor. ‘For Boromir was loyal to me and no wizard’s pupil. He would have remembered his father’s need, and would not have squandered what fortune gave. He would have brought me a mighty gift.’ For a moment Faramir’s restraint gave way. ‘I would ask you, my father, to remember why it was that I, not he, was in Ithilien.” His father has admitted that he wished that Faramir had died and not Boromir.” In the film you see the impact that has had on Faramir. The relationship between Denethor and Faramir is not good and the film shows that, but in shorthand. During that meeting of the captains Denethor keeps mentioning the loss of Boromir, “It is at Osgiliath that he will put his weight, as before when Boromir denied him the passage.” and after the continual mentioning of Boromir in the meeting the day before quoted above and in this meeting the exchange happens: “But I will not yield the River and the Pelennor unfought - not if there is a captain here who has still the courage to do his lord’s will.’ Then all were silent, but at length Faramir said: ‘I do not oppose your will, sire. Since you are robbed of Boromir, I will go and do what I can in his stead [italics mine]- if you command it.’ ‘I do so,’ said Denethor. ‘Then farewell!’ said Faramir. ‘But if I should return, think better of me!’ ‘That depends on the manner of your return,’ said Denethor. This happens in a roomful of people, granted and all were silent. But through Denethor’s repeated mentioning of Boromir, knowing the close relationship between the two brothers, seems to me he is goading Faramir to act. Faramir takes the statement personally “‘I do not oppose your will, sire. Since you are robbed of Boromir, I will go and do what I can in his stead.” So much is at work here. Faramir is grieving, his restraint tested to its boundaries. His loyalty and his duty are once again are called into question by his father and this time in public before other men of honor. Even if Denethor wasn’t necessarily goading him specifically, he takes it as such. Then Faramir make response that to me as an avowal of himself yearning for some acknowledgement from his father of what he is about to undertake: “Then farewell!’ said Faramir. ‘But if I should return, think better of me!’ And he receives a complete rebuff. ‘That depends on the manner of your return,’ said Denethor.” Even though he knows this mission is doomed to failure, he undertakes it. Why. As you say Faramir too well grounded to be a “People-pleaser.” And under normal standards I would agree but his life has been torn to shreds. His brother has died. How and why he has received conflicting reports. His father who is also grieving Boromir’s death is roundly once again questioning his second son’s decisions and loyalty and his very survival at this point. Is Faramir resigned yes, to what though. That is the question. I think the film shows this well. Faramir is riding to his death. Does he want to die? I don’t think so but his life and his choices are leading to this unenviable position. Is it a rational decision? No. But it is one that he may see as inevitable. Does the film make more of it than the book, possibly but the drama of it in cinematic terms for me is devastating and very memorable. I think PJ and crew do more of a disservice to Denethor than Faramir. I completely regret that they did not give John Noble the line “I sent my son forth, unthanked, unblessed, out into needless peril, and here he lies with poison in his veins.” It shows a realization of what he has done and also later on his love shown through a broken mind but he will allow no one else nearly hoping he will speak in the end. He sent his son and now grief and guilt (and the Palantirr) have broken his mind. He knew Osigilath was a lost cause and yet he sent Faramir anyway. By his own admission, he sent Faramir. Denethor’s mind aided by the Palantirr drove him to this. It is tragic. And Denethor in the film is given none of this. He is angry, raving. Except at the last when Faramir is coming to while on the fire and Denethor sobs, "My son!" But enough of my ramblings! Onto Ch. 41! (((hugs))) MM | |
| Lindelea | Reviewed Chapter: 40 on 11/23/2025 |
| p.s. Regarding the discussion of film-Faramir vs book-Faramir in the reviews, I admit to being highly disappointed in Faramir in the film version – not for any lacking on David Wenham's part, but rather because of how his story was rewritten in the films. In the book, he was a man of principle who could say, 'Not even if I found it lying in the road', and proved his quality, as Sam observed. He exuded wisdom and a quiet strength, as well as a kind of steadiness that Boromir lacked by comparison. (Boromir strikes me as more restless in nature.) The soldiers under him held a high opinion of him, as spoken by Beregond: ‘But things may change when Faramir returns. He is bold, more bold than many deem; for in these days men are slow to believe that a captain can be wise and learned in the scrolls of lore and song, as he is, and yet a man of hardihood and swift judgement in the field. But such is Faramir. Less reckless and eager than Boromir, but not less resolute. The films made him seem weak-willed at best, both in taking Frodo and Sam to Osgiliath and in leading the knights of Gondor on a suicide mission on his father's orders (he seemed more pouty in the film than the noble but despairing Man). In my opinion, PJ and his cohorts did Faramir a disservice. I remember watching in dismay the part set in Osgiliath with the Nazgûl attacking and Frodo getting all weird... a similar feeling to Arwen showing up at the Ford rather than Glorfindel in the first film – I almost walked out of the Fellowship film at that point, I was so disgusted! When Sam cried out, 'We're not even supposed to be here!' I cheered, in complete agreement with the sentiment. (And wondered if it was the filmmakers' private jest.) As for the battle of Osgiliath, Faramir did not ride out because his father directly shamed him into going, as I remember the film implying. I just re-read the scene where Faramir volunteers to guard the River-crossing and the approach to the Pelennor. His response comes after Denethor addresses "all the captains" [emphasis mine], including the Prince, saying, I will not yield the River and the Pelennor unfought – not if there is a captain here who has still the courage to do his lord’s will. Tolkien follows this speech with the observation, Then all were silent. All were silent! Denethor was goading all the captains there, not singling out Faramir, or so I interpret the scene. When Faramir breaks the silence, saying, 'I will go and do what I can', the scene feels similar to Frodo saying, I will take the Ring, though I do not know the way. For that and other reasons, Faramir and Frodo feel like kindred spirits to me. (Last but not least, I too would love to see any and all deleted scenes with Faramir and Éowyn, including their wedding! I was also sad that Merry's healing was not included in the film, and that they dubbed over his "Are you going to bury me?" with a different line. Sigh.) | |
| Lindelea | Reviewed Chapter: 40 on 11/23/2025 |
| MM! I remember enjoying the food court at Costco when the wee hobbits were still quite small... A wonderful place to fill them up! I remember their slices of cheese pizza were enormous, meaning we could split two slices amongst the four of us, and everyone would be full and satisfied, even my voracious and fast-growing "bottomless pits". I can imagine the store being crowded and the checkout lines as especially long on this pre-holiday weekend...? By contrast, I am tucked up at home, nursing a cold. (One of the drawbacks of living with family members who go out into the world for work and leisure purposes. Balanced by the benefit of waking up to the inviting aroma of French toast!) I'm very glad not to be out shopping but rather reading fanfic while wrapped in a blanket and sipping from a steaming mug of Lady Grey tea. Poor Éowyn; the past months have hollowed her out, and recent events have scoured away what little was left of her innermost being. But she is surrounded by healers now, including a certain Man of Gondor who would probably have excelled at the healing arts had he not been compelled by family and fate to learn and practise the arts of war. Her cup may be empty at the moment – but that leaves room for her to be filled up again with love and wonder, sweet nectar to replace the bitter draught that was poured out on the battlefield. The healer will replace the warrior – or maybe I mean to say that she will turn her warrior skill to battling injury and illness, warding off Death and darkness, disease and despair with a sword made of determination (and balms and draughts?) and a shield made up of healers' arts while beckoning those under her responsibility to follow her to victory and peace and abundant life beyond mere physical healing. Sorry about waxing so poetic; I don't mean to sound grandiloquent (a word I had to look up just now to find the word that I wanted), but I've been re-reading Tolkien on this quiet, grey day, and he shifts my brain into a different gear than the usual one. (((hugs))) Lin Author Reply: Lin! Sorry to hear about your cold. Hope you are feeling better soon! But yes to be snuggled down with tea and good fanfiction. To paraphrase the Bard, It is a condition devoutly to be wished. As opposed to what Hamlet was thinking as he was "throwing a Moody!" as the English would say! LOL! "Poor Éowyn; the past months have hollowed her out, and recent events have scoured away what little was left of her innermost being." She has been through it and thinks she has nothing left but then she will allow nobody to tend to one of her boys. "But she is surrounded by healers now, including a certain Man of Gondor who would probably have excelled at the healing arts had he not been compelled by family and fate to learn and practise the arts of war." Exactly! I think I mention this in one of my stories. The Warden I think muses upon that very idea. "The healer will replace the warrior – or maybe I mean to say that she will turn her warrior skill to battling injury and illness, warding off Death and darkness, disease and despair with a sword made of determination (and balms and draughts?) and a shield made up of healers' arts while beckoning those under her responsibility to follow her to victory and peace and abundant life beyond mere physical healing." That idea I will be addressing my next chapter...we are coming to an end soon... (((hugs))) MM | |
| Lindelea | Reviewed Chapter: 40 on 11/21/2025 |
| MM! How lovely to see another chapter! I am saving it for my weekend reading pleasure. More later, Lin (((hugs))) Author Reply: Lin! Hope you enjoy!! We are sitting in Costco eating a hot dog in the middle of our turkey day shopping!! (((Hugs))) MM | |
| Fimbrethel | Reviewed Chapter: 40 on 11/21/2025 |
| David Wenham's Faramir is more human, I guess. (Plus maybe that was Frodo's climax in Two Towers?) And he does what his father wants when he goes to Osgiliath. So David Wenham's Faramir is great too! I guess I am sorry he doesn't have more screen time with Éowyn, though I understand why he didn't. Actually...what is the chance there is unreleased footage of more Faramir/Éowyn? Author Reply: Fimbrethil! Hello! I think that is why the slight change was made by Peter Jackson and Fran Walsh and Pippa Boyens. They needed an end for Two Tower and Helm's Deep and Shelob in the same film was just too much and we get that wonderful speech by Sam at the end of Two Towers. "what is the chance there is unreleased footage of more Faramir/Éowyn?" They did actually shoot their wedding scene. Costumes were designed for it. Miranda Otto posted a pic of her and David Wenham in their wedding finery. https://www.reddit.com/r/lotr/comments/bf4bf1/miranda_ottos_ig_post_of_eowyn_faramirs_wedding/#lightbox I have scoured every posting showing deleted scenes from ROTK and nothing!!! *very large sigh* Probably the prettiest dress that Ngila Dickson who did the costumes for LOTR designed and it ended up on the cutting room floor! *grrrr* (((hugs))) MM | |
| Fimbrethel | Reviewed Chapter: 40 on 11/21/2025 |
| "Duty had guided her for so many years" That reminded me of "Pirates of Penzance" a.k.a. "The Slave of Duty". She also overcomes her view with love. Wow, your Faramir is so honorable! Makes me even more mad at film Faramir! :) Also, your writing in the Faramir/Éowyn part is so good I sometimes had trouble remembering which parts were actually Tolkien! The boys! I don't actually know how much they have grown but also act rashly, lol. "Tis no use arguing with her, my lady, when she has that look on her face. Many have tried … and many have failed.” That whole conversation is great! Háling has talked to Faramir now! I still wonder what they will do when she goes to Ithilien... "assembled mob of the caring" nice phrase. As for the rest of that paragraph, Faramir is the one who started it by asking if he could go. lol. Thank you for writing and have a good thanksgiving! Author Reply: Fimbrethil!! Hello! Thank you so much. I have tried to paint Eowyn and Faramir slowly. Éowyn needs time to accept that Faramir does love her. The breakfast scene was fun to write. Actually I love David Wenham's Faramir. I have love Faramir since high school and truly don't understand all the film Faramir dislike. Thanks for writing!! (((Hugs))) MM | |
| shirebound | Reviewed Chapter: 40 on 11/20/2025 |
| You're weaving the slow but steady steps of their love in a wonderful way. Faramir splashed some milk in the tea and looked at the assembled crew, “Is there anything else or may I go now?” Merry looked about the assembled mob of the caring and said brightly, “Nope, I think that is everything. You may leave.” The hobbit finished with a mischievous grin on a face where the bruises were starting to fade. “Well thank you, Master Meriadoc, for your leave,” Faramir said with a smile in answer to his friend’s cheekiness. You know I love that. :) Author Reply: Shirebound!! Hello! Thanks! I am having so much fun painting their relationship growing. I just want to rush them together, but that is not the story. Eowyn needs time to accept Faramir's love. She has been through the ringer the last couple of years. I couldn't resist the banter at breakfast! :-)) And of course Merry couldn't resist the chance to be cheeky!! LOL! His is an irrepressible spirit. I could just heard Dom Monaghan voicing those words! thanks again writing! It is so very much appreciated! (((hugs))) MM | |