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The Prisoner and The Hobbit  by Dreamflower 7 Review(s)
6336Reviewed Chapter: 10 on 6/9/2012
Well had to go back and reread the last chapter to figure out what had upset Bilbo so much. There are paralells to Annatar's love of his wife and daughter in R.L. also to his expectation of their loyalty to him. There are plenty of children out there who would wish they could divorce themselves from their parents, especially their fathers. It smacks a bit of they're mine so they will do what I tell them.

Eonwe does seem to come across as a bit of a prig, also a little two faced, do as I say not as I do, with regard to begetting children! I don't however, think that having a child made Sauron any less evil. Having a child does not make you a saint. The saying 'Any Man can be a father but it takes someone special to be a dad.' is very true.

History is always being rewritten to suit the notions of the present generation, look at the number of people who claim the Holocaust never happened.

I did enjoy this chapter, though I only seem to have commented on certain aspects of it, Sauron seems to be something of a traditionalist when it comes to golf clubs, though I do believe they are using carbon fibre shafts now.


Author Reply: Yes, it did smack of that. And you are right: having a family does not make a person a saint. Look at how many genocidal dictators were fond of their wives and children, how many serial killers were thought to be good sons or loved their dogs. And you are right about the "mine" part-- it figures strongly in many cases of parents who killed their kids rather than lose them in a custody battle or to the state.

I am not 100% sure, but I think the point Eonwe made was that his mate was another Maia. Because she preferred the form of an Eagle that's how they had their children. But Sauron married one of the Firstborn. Of course, so did Melian and so far as I know Eonwe's not condemning her. (And of course in "my" universe, a Maia married one of the Secondborn.)

Sauron was impressed with the carbon fibre shafts, but he wisely thought it might confuse the hobbits. (I think he was right as regards Bilbo-- Bilbo would be very much a traditionalist on such a thing. I'm not sure about Frodo.)

pandemonium_213Reviewed Chapter: 10 on 6/9/2012
Thanks so much, Sunny, Raksha (who, whenever we take our perambulations, asks "When will we see the next chapter?" :^D), Larner, Kaylee, and Alei, for having a read and for the comments. Very much appreciated.

Enw might have a priggish streak, but he's more than that, I think. Larner nailed it with the exasperation he feels toward someone he might regard as "family." Both of these fellows (Sauron and Enw) have a lot of pride that gets in their way.

On eagles - bear in mind they are also noble symbols of other nations and empires, some of which we hold in honor. Enw's activities as a raptor might give a nod to Zeus' proclivities, but at least Enw monogamously sticks to his own species per his fana du jour. ;^)

Kaylee and Alei, please allow me to SQUEE that you picked up on the identity of the patriot/Kinslayer/slaveowner. That's the point of my whole conceit of this alternative branch to "the line of Lthien." These descendants are brilliant, inventive people, but they often have a dark side and/or have brought forth ideas that shake the status quo and are not received well by all.

Bilbo's response is fascinating (I thoroughly enjoyed reading of his history) and has certainly piqued the Dark Muse's interest in a big way ("Belladonna Took? Who is this Belladonna Took?"). Now as far as responding goes, his gaoler (that would be me) tends to get terribly preoccupied with work-related writing, not to mention the DM's proclivities that have resulted in about a gazillion WIPs. Hence, the time between chapters may be longish. That said, Dreamflower and I have discussed just what we want to do over the next couple of chapters or so, and this may align with "Ancestress."

Thanks again!

AleiTheLeafReviewed Chapter: 10 on 6/9/2012
I've been waiting for the next chapter! So happy the story is still going on!
And I liked the reintroduction of Eonwe, I remember his characterization from Pande's other stories and think of his character as an interesting adversary to Sauron's mindset. They aren't really foils to one another, but their way of thinking and approaching situations definitely varies (and almost makes Sauron seem more subtle and direct at the same time, if that's even possible). Anyway, I really like how Sauron is making golf clubs for the hobbits, it seems like an apology of sorts.
The parallels between Sauron telling about his life and Bilbo then telling Sauron about his was an interesting type of juxtaposition and definitely gave more weight to their correspondence. This, along with the opposing meanings of Sauron's former and current name, almost seem like a puzzle for Bilbo (I liked his reaction to discovery that as well). In a way, Sauron and Bilbo are foils to one another but alike in their search for knowledge. It's cool. ^^
And I knew it was Thomas Jefferson! (just looked up the quote and guessed correctly)
p.s. sorry if that didn't entirely make sense, I just enjoyed a lot of this chapter and don't always know how to fit it all in.

Kaylee ArafinwielReviewed Chapter: 10 on 6/9/2012
"History, or the future", about time paradoxes! Well, I suppose being 'not of this world' but rather outside it...somewhat more literally as Aman was removed when the world was bent...they can't know, can they? Heh! Interesting, if disturbing, that Eonwe's descendants would be associated with the Third Reich. And then there was the unnamed 'Kinslayer' who 'incited rebellion against the king'...well, it was very clever to leave only a quote I hadn't learned as a hint to his identity, I must say.

I found myself hating the unidentified man for the association with Feanaro and Sauron, the slave-owning, the horrific quality of the words, and then...well, I could have slapped myself when I actually Googled the quote and found the identity of the speaker. One of our greatest patriots indeed, and one of my father's heroes! What a tangled web this is, lol! Very "It Makes Sense In Context" here, to quote an oft-used phrase on TVTropes.

Well done ladies, and I bow to your crafting of this brilliant chapter!

Kaylee Arafinwiel

LarnerReviewed Chapter: 10 on 6/8/2012
Had to reread the last chapter to bring myself back up to speed on this. So, both are having to realign their thoughts to keep the correspondence going. And the experience with Eonwe sounds--disturbing. I can certainly empathize with the Herald's frustrations, as I feel them toward too many of my own family menbers.

Hope the next chapter is soon forthcoming!

Author Reply: Yes, they've got to re-trench a little. Sauron's decided to be a little less forthcoming (or thinks he has) and Bilbo has decided to be a little more forthcoming!

Yes, it was disturbing-- for both of them. Eonwe feels guilty because it was his brief moment of gloating that kept Sauron from surrendering to the Valar, or so he thinks. I am not sure that Sauron still believes that anymore, but at the time it angered him.

With a collaboration it usually takes longer to get a new chapter up as two people have to find the time to get it together; but I am hopeful the next one will be sooner rather than later!

Raksha The DemonReviewed Chapter: 10 on 6/7/2012
Enw leaned back against the cushions and took a long drink. "As for your family? You had absolutely no business becoming so intimate with the Firstborn. You might have spared yourself and others a good deal of trouble if you had kept your vi tucked safely away in your trousers."

"Such excellent advice, seeing as how it comes from one whom a number of eaglets in the Misty Mountains could call 'Papa.'"

You made me laugh here! Eonwe absolutely had that coming to him! He seems like a self-satisfied prig, but at least has some ability to reflect and regret.

Another excellent chapter. I can see why Sauron's revelations that he actually loved a woman and made a child with her, like any other denizen of Middle-earth even elves, men and hobbits, would be something of a shock to Bilbo, particularly when Sauron revealed that his wife died during Sauron's conquest of Ost-en-Edhil. Sauron's memories of his torture of poor Celebrimbor, and the elf's death, are particularly chilling; Sauron is getting the hang of regret, but it is hard for him to admit guilt. And Sauron's antipathy for Frodo shows that regret and repentance are not the same thing; and the latter is still a long way off for Sauron, at least on the subject of his great accomplishments in Middle-earth.

More soon, I hope!

Author Reply: He was something of a prig, but his heart was in the right place, anyhow!

I think Sauron's regret is genuine, but his repentance is slowed by the fact that he's actually proud of some of his accomplishments, and that he does not seem to be able to divide the wheat from the chaff in the things that he did. (Witness his attempts to excuse his enslavement of people by pointing out that he treated some of his slaves well.)

I hope so too!

SunnyReviewed Chapter: 10 on 6/7/2012
It has been a longish time to wait for the continuation of the story, but the chapter was certainly worth waiting for!
Some people seem to just instinctively detest each other, and Sauron and Enw here in this fic certainly seem to be two such. I rather like Sauron - he is such an _interesting_ and complicated character - but I haven't really decided about Enw yet. He seems to be something of a prig, IMO. Sauron quite honorably marrying a woman and having a daughter with her he sees as deeply unsuitable, but considers his own large flock of eagle chicklets to be perfectly all right. Oh all right - Enw is going to have to work for it to get on my good side again! ;-)
It seems that both Bilbo and Sauron could give stones lessons in stubbornness. I think they deserve each other!

Author Reply: Eonwe did seem a bit priggish, didn't he? Yet he seemed honestly sad about Sauron's situation. I wouldn't mind seeing more of Pande's Eonwe-- like all her characters, he's layered.

*grin* Still, Baggins' stubbornness won out in the end, I think!

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