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| A Case of Mistaken Identity by Conquistadora | 67 Review(s) |
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| Camp6311 | Reviewed Chapter: 10 on 2/13/2004 |
| Excellent piece of writing! Now how about taking on Denethor who is even more maligned in fan-fiction than Thranduil. Author Reply: Erm, I think Denethor is best left to other hands than mine! He would be somewhat harder to defend than Thranduil was, although I agree that he was beaten a bit more than was perhaps called for in the movie. And I certainly wouldn't pin those especially-nasty paternal stigmas on any of them. | |
| Karen | Reviewed Chapter: 10 on 2/13/2004 |
| This is a tremendous piece of work. I am so happy to read it! Beautifully researched, argued and written. Nice work on condeming the slash. Can I give you an idea? I am not the expert that you are on Tolkien, but I notice in LOTR that there is quite a connection between a happily married couple and peace in the realm. Tolkien must have innately held the institution of marriage very dear, because his respect for it permeates his work. A wedded couple blesses the land . . . think of Elrond and Arwen, Faramir and Eowyn, Sam and Rosie, Galadrial and her husband, Tom B. and Goldberry, Elrond and the respect that he and his sons show to his wife's memory even though she is now off the scene. Also note the reverse . . . how the Kings and Stewards of Gondor became less because they took their focus off of marriage and family. Consider the notes regarding Boromir . . . he had no interest in taking a wife, only in feats of arms . . . and we all know where his character flaws took him. The Hobbit Ringbearers had to sacrifice this joy for themselves because of the Ring and their fate. . . maybe, to Tolkien, this was the greatest sacrifice they made? Maybe you can do something with this. If so, I'd love to read it. Who are you? I want to forward this essay of yours to a professor here at UTSA who is teaching a course on Tolkien. Do you mind? Congratulations again on a great piece of scholarship. Please write more . . . my email address is kroth@utsa.edu and I would love to read anything else you have written about Tolkien. Namarie . . . Karen Roth | |
| Amaniel | Reviewed Chapter: 10 on 2/13/2004 |
| Well, you certainly received quite a response from this. I think you've achieved your goal! This was very well researched and written. You must've spent quite a bit of time on it. I guess now I see where all your time went! It was for a worthy cause though. I'm glad you decided to finally come out and say something on the matter! I know it had been bugging you for some time. I'm sure Thranduil is glad too! :P Author Reply: Actually I was so heated up that it was only a matter of a few evenings at the computer with a monstrous pile of books at the side. :) Now that I have that out of my system, I can get back to those stories you're waiting on! (Things get boring again in Comp Sci?) ^_~ | |
| Le Rouret | Reviewed Chapter: 10 on 2/13/2004 |
| Thank you, Coriel! I too am a proponent of Good!Thranduil, as well you know. But your points are well-made and I concede them without argument. (So does my Dad, by the way.) Le Rouret Author Reply: Yay! And from what I've seen of him, your Thranduil is highly endorsed from this quarter! Every bit as good as your Legolas. :) | |
| Jay of Lasgalen | Reviewed Chapter: 10 on 2/13/2004 |
| That was great. I have seen (and used) all those arguments before, but rarely have they been put together so coherently. It should be required reading for every Evil!Thranduil writer. I'd read (or at least, began to read)several Evil!Thranduil fics and was struck by several things: Where did this portrayal come from? How could Legolas be the merry character he is in LOTR if he was an abused child? And elves just didn't *do* that! I like your final point: 'In the end, Thranduil’s single-handed stand paid off for his people. "In Greenwood the Silvan Elves remained untroubled," while the other realms of the Rings faded fast (Appendix B, LotR, RotK).' Yes - because Thranduil had maintained his kingdom by his own power, while the other Elven realms had been shored up by the power of the rings. When that faded, the kingdoms crumbled. Thank you, Coriel. Jay Author Reply: It beats me where all this nastiness came from. I guess that once they had established Thranduil as a baddie, they thought they would go ahead and pin all kinds of other sordid labels on him. Poor guy. And sometimes it does pay to take the long and hard road. | |
| Marnie | Reviewed Chapter: 10 on 2/13/2004 |
| Very good! I'm going to give the link to someone I'm in correspondance with at the moment, who thinks Thranduil is a jerk because 'Legolas never mentions him, never expresses the desire to go home' and who quoted me the passage about liking silver and gems, but then admitted that she hadn't read the end of the Hobbit, where Thranduil goes on his mercy-mission at all. Sheesh! You take one out of context reference and run with it, and ignore everything else to suit yourself. You're right, it's disrespectful. Great essay - it'll be most useful in the campaign :) Would you mind if I put a link to it on my site? Author Reply: Oh yes! Give her an Inbox full! I maintain that if you don't know what you're talking about, sit down and be quiet. You may link this wherever you want! And btw, I liked your defense of Celeborn at HASA too. ;) *All hail the Sindar!* | |
| Thundera Tiger | Reviewed Chapter: 10 on 2/13/2004 |
| Bravo!!! It's about time, that's all I have to say. Well, maybe not all. An essay this good deserves more than that. This was a wonderfully exhaustive work disproving so many of the injustices that plague poor Thranduil (who is one of my favorite characters). He's a complex personality that is running a group of elves very efficiently given the circumstances. Give the poor guy some credit! And bravo again on establishing a more impartial view of Thranduil's encounter with Thorin and his rather close-mouthed dwarven companions. Not that I have anything against dwarves, but sometimes they can be so stubborn. Though I suppose that's also true for elves... Anyway, I love how you brought in references from LotR, the Silmarillion, UT, HoME, and tied them all together to refute some of the more outlandish theories like incest and child molesting. This might be seen by some as a rather bold move given this fanon's propensity to paint Thranduil as a monster, but I'm so glad you've done this! It's positively brilliant. To conclude, my most sincere thanks to you for this beautifully outlined, extremely well-organized defense of the the elven king who managed to keep his realm intact without one of the Three. Thranduil and Coriel forever! Author Reply: More Good!Thranduilites! Yes, there was stubborness on both sides, but I think Thorin really should have handled the situation better than that. What is Thranduil supposed to think if he just clammed up all of a sudden?! Obviously he had something to hide! I don't like to pick fights, but I was feeling particularly bellicose by this point, ready to deal with even flaming reviews and what-not! I guess I had seen one too many slash signs, which never fail to turn my stomach. >_< Best regards for this corner of the fandom! Author Reply: *from* Drat typos! | |
| erunyauve | Reviewed Chapter: 10 on 2/13/2004 |
| Wow! This is beautifully researched and written and makes a fine case for home schooling. The fact that Thranduil and his father held their realm for some 6,000 years (longer than any dynasty of men or elves) is testament to their benign and wise rule. It is simply impossible to maintain tyranny over an educated people for very long. Tom Shippey has suggested that Thranduil's interest in treasure has less to do with greed than with love for beautiful things. Certainly, in the end, he is happy enough with a single necklace. The mithril shirt is another interesting matter - it was made for an elven prince but apparently never delivered due to the appearance of Smaug. Tolkien certainly had not yet envisioned Legolas when he wrote 'The Hobbit', but he might have had some vague thought of a son of Thranduil - particularly as no other elf could have fathered an elven prince. Elrond's sons would qualify as 'princes' as Tolkien used the word, but Elrond's status as half-elven was not yet nailed down (nor were his sons yet envisioned). If we interpret 'The Hobbit' in terms of what we know from LOTR, the sons of Elrond would have been far too old by the time Smaug was active. However, Legolas might not have been too old (his words in LOTR seem to make him at least 500 years old at the time of the War of the Ring, but the timing would be close enough). I tend to agree with you regarding Celeborn. There is a reference in UT stating that Celeborn and Galadriel visit Thranduil to investigate reports of a shadow over the forest at the time Dol Guldur is first occupied. That tends to suggest at least a cordial relationship. I've imagined that relations between Thranduil and Celeborn might have been a little strained, if only due to his father's dislike of them. After all, it seems rather odd that Legolas had never met them or visited Lorien, particularly if, as he implies in LOTR, they are kin. As for Thranduil's relationship with the Noldor, I rather think he might not have entirely shared his father's antipathy. (Not that Oropher lacked good reason - he is probably the second-most unfairly maligned elf in Arda.) Legolas' only comment about the Noldor is that they were different from the Silvan folk, with their interest in stonework rather than nature. He doesn't even know much of the story of the fall of Eregion and seems to speak in awe of the 'High Elves' when he identifies the symbol of the Two Trees at the door to Moria. Since he does share his father's suspicion of the dwarves, it seems likely that if Thranduil had a particular loathing of the Noldor, his son would share it. One other 'fanon' misconception involves Thranduil's relationship with men and outsiders in general. He is often depicted as extremely insular, but I would argue that not only was Mirkwood more involved in the affairs of its neighbors than any other elven realm (perhaps with the exception of Imladris), but that Thranduil's kingdom survived beyond the War of the Ring for this reason. The Silvan Elves were able to adapt to the changing world - they still mattered in the world of men. In any event, we have numerous examples of Mirkwood's relations with men - Thranduil sent help to Isildur in TA 2 (so we can probably rule out 'fanon' that claims that he hated Aragorn as Isildur's heir). We know he dealt extensively with the men of Laketown and Dale. The Woodmen also helped in the hunt for Gollum, and one would imagine that if he hated Aragorn, he would not have taken Aragorn's slimy prisoner (and he must have known that keeping Gollum would jeopardize his people). Quite a thought-provoking work! Author Reply: Always glad to do my part to prove that homeschoolers do indeed get an education! Wow, what a bunch of great points. :) I too think that there was no especial enmity between Thranduil and Celeborn, but Galadriel might have been a sticking point besides Oropher's legacy. Lorien obviously was not dinner-time conversation in Thranduil's household, considering just how little Legolas seemed to know about it. Maybe relations just dragged for the last thousand years or something, during which a lot can happen. And I agree that Thranduil was not the Unknown that other elven rulers could have been in those later years. The men of Laketown thought nothing of seeing Elves in their city, and Bard turned immediately to Thranduil in their need. A good foreign policy could also prove vital to their survival in Mirkwood. :) | |
| Lindelea | Reviewed Chapter: 2 on 2/13/2004 |
| Excellent points, in this and the previous chapter. I shall have to seek out Morgoth's Ring, for starters. I have avoided elf-fiction, for the most part, concentrating on hobbits (though I began writing fanfic because of a fascination for Beregond and kind of side-stepped into hobbitry), but I have seen snippets of the themes you are refuting. They made me approach writing Elves in general and Legolas in particular with great trepidation. I have been complimented on the joy of the Elves in my stories, which makes me think it is more common to find tortured, neurotic souls in the general LOTR elf-fanfic world. In any event, if I get pulled away before reading and reviewing the last chapter of your essay, I wish to thank you for clarifying canon and Elves in my mind. I hope I do get to read all the way through... Author Reply: It seems angsty elves run rampant through fanfic in general, and that every Legolas-lover from every broken home in the world wants someone to commiserate with. As a result, these guys have taken quite an undeserved pounding. Glad I was able to open a few windows to you. ;) That's why I wrote it! | |
| Lasse-Lanta | Reviewed Chapter: 10 on 2/13/2004 |
| Hear, Hear! I raise a glass in toast to the Elven-King Thranduil and his wonderous apologist. You have made an excellent argument which should be required reading (preferable while the errant writer sits bound to a chair with their eyelids pinned open) to every evil Thranduil author (and I use that term loosely). Author Reply: And I'll join you! You may have noticed that I despise the rampant crime of taking Tolkien canon and dragging it gleefully through the mud. (If you don't like the way he wrote it, then don't do him the disservice of slapping his name on that tripe.) We could draw up Thranduil's Index of Forbidden Fanfic, but if we want to keep a managable number, perhaps we had better stick with enumerating our allies! | |