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Tangled Web by daw the minstrel	48 Review(s)
dr_seuss_is_cool	Reviewed Chapter: 17 on 7/10/2004
Hello. I loathed the idea all day that I wouldn’t be able to read this chapter until the day after it might be posted. But now that I read it I’m happy to say that I loved the very nice ending to this very great story. I anticipated a much happier chapter, and I got it. Thank you. I’m very glad to see that Sinnarn is all right. I liked that Legolas was examining how it felt to be taking care of Ithilden and Thranduil. I was very interested in the part with Bard, when Thorin was being placed in his tomb. It really made me think. I’m very sorry for Tinar, the scene with him struck me as very sad even if short, but it was one of my favorite scenes. (That makes me sound mean and horrible) I will miss Bilbo from this story, but I know that he needs to go. Thranduil is such a great elf. I really do see him as being such a great father and a good example for other dads. I’m very happy to see Thranduil wanting more grandchildren. My favorite scene in this chapter had to be when Legolas was telling Thranduil about men. I thought it very interesting. And it was a very nice touch to see Anneal well and Thranduil thinking optimistically. Well, thank you again for such a great chapter and story. Thank you for writing. Bye bye. Author Reply: This was a much happier chapter and I was glad too. Legolas is making the last few steps before he is ready to set off on the quest. He's thinking about Men and what they are like and who would be one he would admire. I don't think Tinar is going to really change, but you never know. Elves have a long time to learn from their experiences. Thranduil is indeed a good father. He knows what's going on with his kids even when he's very busy. And he wants grandchildren! Thank you, Dr. S.

naneth	Reviewed Chapter: 17 on 7/10/2004
Of course Beliond is grumpy. His charge is wandering around the former battle area, no one knows if all the orcs have been found yet, everyone knows Legolas is the king's son, and he is acting as one of the leaders of the elf army. He's a prime target and Beliond is stuck in bed! I loved your scene with Legolas giving his father and brother "The" Thranduil look and insisting that they eat. They've certainly done the same to him often enough in the past. Seeing your children as the adults they are is so difficult for parents. No matter how mature they are, those snapshots of them as infants, toddlers, and small children dance around in your head! I'm glad he gave his sons a "pass" on their bad behavior and that Thranduil demanded elflings from Eilian. The entire family needs elflings! Great job-as always! You bring your characters to life in such a wonderful way. Thanks for sharing this story with us! Author Reply: I should have had Beliond saying something by the rafts. A few last minute words of warning to Legolas. That would have been good. It amused me to have Legolas acting just like Thranduil in caring for his elders. I guess we do follow the role models of our parents! And Thranduil may have decided (for now) that Eilian and Legolas are adults, but he doesn't hesitate to demand grandchildren or tell Annael that his daughter is marrying Sinnarn. LOL. I love Thranduil.

Bodkin	Reviewed Chapter: 17 on 7/10/2004
On Keepers: Sinnarn will need a new keeper, won't he - but a different sort, because he is no longer an only-just-grown-up warrior, full of arrogance in his skills and likely to fall into all kinds of trouble, but a proper, grown-up, experienced warrior. You could almost have him training his keeper. It would be an entirely different type of relationship. (Legolas's birth would be quite an interesting event - and would include him in a very early role.) Sorry to review again. Author Reply: Bodkin, you are a mind reader! That is exactly the story I was thinking of next. As I was doing laundry and paying bills this morning, I even thought of how I could work in another bit of story I've been wanting to do. "Sorry to review again" -- Oh yeah. Because authors just hate that. snerk

Dot	Reviewed Chapter: 17 on 7/10/2004
Ai, its over. I still feel bad about missing so much of it. I know you got plenty of other reviews but still… Anyway, bravo for a perfect ending to an incredible story. It was fascinating to watch the two youngest sons of Thranduil assume responsibility. Whatever about Legolas having to take over from Todith, it must have felt really odd to Eilian to have to act on behalf of both Thranduil and Ithilden. I imagine it’s not something he ever really thought he’d have to do as one of them at least is always around. I know it’s Ithilden’s job he’s doing but he doesn’t even have Thranduil overseeing his actions. Still, his father clearly trusts him enough to allow him to do this and it can’t be easy for Thranduil to relinquish even a little control. It really goes to show how vulnerable these elves are when it comes to their family. My absolute favourite image in this chapter is of Ithilden and Thranduil asleep when Legolas steps into the tent. There’s something so…I don’t know….fragile about it. I mean, these are the two most powerful figures in Mirkwood but in their worry and grief they are just two exhausted fathers. I’m so proud of Thranduil for choosing just to play ‘Ada’ for now. It brought a lump to my throat to see that he tucked his own blankets around Ithilden and just wrapped himself in his cloak. We’ve often seen him being all fatherly towards Legolas and he’s the same when Eilian is injured but it is strange to see him like that with Ithilden. Even he must be frightened to see Ithilden so frantic. Of course, he knows exactly what it’s like to worry about a son. He must be so anxious himself about his grandson but I’m glad he concentrates on looking after Ithilden. I admit I laughed when Legolas orders Thranduil to eat. I know Thranduil isn’t injured but he still needs looking-after and it’s funny to see his youngest son act exactly as Thranduil does whenever one of them is injured. “I would say he is as determined as you are, my lord, but I think he is expending his strength on healing himself rather than on such wasteful actions as worrying.” Hmmn. I wonder which healer that was. He isn’t afraid to speak his mind anyway. Luckily Ithilden doesn’t seem to have taken much notice. The poor thing has a right to worry. How awful for him to have found Sinnarn and in the midst of battle be able to do very little about him. Plus, of course, Nithron was dear to Ithilden as well. What a sad image of the dead lying by the river, waiting to be sent home by the rafts. I’d hate to be the ones receiving them at the other end and having to ensure they were claimed by family. I liked your take on Thorin’s funeral. Thranduil seems to have developed a little more respect for Dwarves in general and like the good ruler he is, goes through the ceremonies knowing that it should help to maintain a strong and necessary alliance. “Let them all wonder, and let their wonder breed a little healthy caution.” LOL! I think Thranduil enjoys having his sons wonder about his power. And I love that he and Mithrandir share this little secret. I bet Eilian is glad he didn’t make that wager with Legolas. I’d agree with Thranduil that Bard is only doing what is right for his people. He did ask only for what he was entitled to and, like Thranduil, wanted this treasure to help his people. It made me smile to see that Thranduil decides not to reprimand his sons. It seems this has really been a learning experience for the Elvenking. You know, I do feel bad for Galelas and it nearly broke my heart to see Tinar so bewildered at the loss of his younger brother who he might have treated with even a little more respect if he realised that he wouldn’t always be around, and poor Nithron was always so loyal and clearly loved Sinnarn and it’s difficult to see Ithilden and Sinnarn so grief-stricken - but I think I’m most upset about Todith. Galelas had a tough life but he was a good warrior and chances are he would never have found much happiness outside his patrol. I just think that if he and Nithron had to die, then it was fitting that they did so in battle, with Galelas showing his bravery and Nithron protecting his charge. I just always loved Todith! He’s always been around and made such a difference in the lives of young warriors like Legolas as well as being a really great captain. Can I just point out that the captaincy of the Home Guard is clearly cursed?!! I’ll cry if Annael gets the job after Legolas leaves to go on the Quest. sigh I’ll miss Todith as much as I miss Siondel. Thranduil seems very forgiving of Bilbo. Actually, he really seems to appreciate his spirit and obvious generosity. For someone as innately suspicious as Thranduil, though, it’s a little odd that he takes the fact that the hobbit has a ring of invisibility in his possession so lightly. Ah well, we can’t argue with canon. I’m glad Thranduil took a moment to sympathise with Eilian about Galelas. It seems that nothing passes him by and he’s noticed their relationship. And did he just practically order Eilian to have elflings?! Go Thranduil! He’s right that Eilian would make a good father. And Thranduil seems to be quite fond of his position as grandfather too. I’m starting to think he’s going a bit soft…;-) He offers wise words to Legolas, and being Legolas he will no doubt take what his father says on board. It’s a pity, though, that his respect for Men will one day take Legolas so far from his father. “Annael,” he called, “be sure to tell Emmelin that I look forward to dancing with my new granddaughter-by-marriage at her wedding.” Crikey, I really wouldn’t put anything past Thranduil. I’m so happy that Annael seems more than willing for the marriage to take place. Sinnarn deserves happiness. I’m so relieved that you spared him. For now, at least – although you’re almost as wily as Thranduil at times! I was only thinking the other day that Legolas is away for the next great battle in Mirkwood and how horrible it would be for him to lose people he loves but not find out until he finally comes home. Still, they can enjoy relative peace for a while now anyway. It's good that this can end on a note of hope. By the way, you’ve brought Legolas such a long way. His growth hasn’t been easy but always believable. He’s definitely more ready than ever to take his place as one of the Fellowship. Seriously, this story is a masterpiece. You obviously put a tremendous amount of work into it and I loved every second! Congrats on a really great insight into this tale. Right, I’m technically supposed to be resting so I’m off to pretend that I was in bed all morning… As always I look forward to whatever you write next but for once I’m going to be patient and admit that you’re more than entitled to a little break! Just a little one, though…:-) Author Reply: I hope you're feeling better soon, Dot, but you should take it easy. Surgery can take a long time to recover from. You know, even writing about Legolas and Eilian as in charge and taking care of their elders was interesting. They felt quite different to me as I was doing it. I also liked the idea that, while Thranduil was worried about Sinnarn, it was Ithilden he was caring for. I liked the image of Thranduil sleeping with his arm thrown across his face; it did make him seem vulnerable. The rows of Elven dead made me sad. It's an image that we don't usually see in the aftermath of a battle, especially a victory, but Tolkien tells us it's what the reality was here. Thranduil is ever and always a clever ruler. If people wonder about what magic power he might have, so much the better from his point of view, including his sons. He'll use almost any advantage he can get. I like your point about how fitting it was for Nithron and Galelas to die in battle. I've been surprised by how people divided on which character they feel worst about. Todith and Nithron were actually easier for me to part with than Galelas. I think Galelas aroused my maternal instincts. One of the hardest things about writing this was making it plausible that people had no suspicions about the ring when to us, reading now, it's so clear that it was a problem. In FOTR, Tolkien says that Gandalf was concerned about the ring but even he did nothing about it for years. And they all seem to take the existence of magic for granted. In the end, I just have to fall back on canon, as you say. Thranduil is the limit, isn't he? "Have elflings, Eilian." "Your daughter is marrying my grandson, Annael." LOL

Jebb	Reviewed Chapter: 17 on 7/10/2004
Hope this is not a repost as first review disappeared suddenly! I am really sorry to see this story end I have really enjoyed it and it has made me look at the story of the Hobbit much more closely. Seeing the tale through the eyes of the elves made it much more interesting for me at least Thranduil is a wonder, despite all that has happened he is there for his family and he misses nothing that is going on around him. It was good to see him acknowledge Eilian and Legolas as adults but how long will he hold to this opinion I wonder? Only until they do something he disaproves of I guess he is after all a father first and foremost I hope it will not be long before we have a new story to look forward to Thank you for sharing your wonderful gift of story telling with others J Author Reply: Writing this story made me look at The Hobbit much more closely too! And I only used the last few chapters, after all. But then, I threw in the stuff about Dol Guldur, so it evens out, I guess. I'm glad I deepened the story for you. Thranduil doesn't miss much. He must be scary as hell to have for a father. He always seems to know what they're feeling and what they're up to. And I suspect you're right that they're not going to stay adults in his eyes all the time. He just remembers them all too well as little ones. Thank you, Jebb.

Duchess	Reviewed Chapter: 17 on 7/10/2004
I just about cried when I read about all the laments for the Elven dead. It really is NOT fair that Galelas gets his brother's attention (and it would appear the idiot Tinar might be realizing he'd loved his little brother too) only after his death! I hope the father shows proper remorse, but if he doesn't, I hope Tinar verbally chastises him for it and loudly! glowering Man! I really hate that Sinnarn's keeper died... sniffle I will miss Nithron. VERY glad Sinnarn didn't die too and I would have worried silly over Beliond if I hadn't known already he'd be fine. small smile Thranduil giving Eilian and Legolas praise for doing such good jobs in the aftermath was great, really needed him to see how grown up they both are now. Even though he has let them both become warriors he never really did see them as full adults till now, did he? It's hard for parents (of any race, apparently) to relinquish the last (sometimes desperate) need to father (or mother) their children, well after they've grown up. I liked seeing that here with these characters I've come to love so much through your stories. It was also very, VERY appropriate then that Thranduil outright TOLD Eilian he should have Elflings of his own at last. The King needs granchildren to make up for finally letting his last two sons go into full adulthood in his estimations of them both. snickering Oh wonderfully written! You did a marvelous job on this one and again I thought you did a fine job of weaving The Hobbit into your own tale. It is only fitting that what didn't work be left out, this is YOUR fanfic after all. vbg Excellent! :):):) So, can we expect more soon? I know, I know, I'm such a greedy gus, but the thought of Eilian as an Ada just cracks me up and I'm dearly wishing for stories where that gets fully explored. having a giggle fit at the thought of how protective he's going to be and how at a loss when things happen beyond his control I imagine (and fervently hope) that Eilian and Thranduil's relationship will deepen and grow as the younger Elf needs more and more advice on how to be a good father. happy sigh at the thought applauding Daw's work with a standing ovation Well done! Author Reply: In truth, I can't imagine Tinar changing much. He's just who he is. He's shaken by his younger brother's death at the moment, but he'll bounce back, I think. I have been wondering who I should appoint as Sinnarn's new keeper. I really should use one of my existing OCs, because otherwise I haven't narrowed them down any. I'll have to look at my list. And as you see, Thranduil may be beginning to see Eilian and Legolas as adults, but he doesn't hesitate to tell them what to do! "Have elflings, Eilian." What a good idea that Thranduil wants little ones now because his own are grown up. I will write about Eilian as a father one of these days but probably not next. I think I'll go back in time for the next one. Thank you, Estel.

Jay of Lasgalen	Reviewed Chapter: 17 on 7/10/2004
That was a very satisfying chapter, Daw, and a good ending. Poor Ithilden, finding Sinnarn like that, not knowing if he was alive or dead, but knowing Nithron was. I like the way Legolas cared for his father and older broher, telling them to rest and eat - quite a role reversal! The way he and Eilian simply took over running everything was impressive - and proved to Thranduil just how capable they both are. After Thranduil's comments to Eilian, I think he would be a good novice master, and it would be a suitable posting for someone with elflings. Poor Thranduil, though - despite looking to the future free from shadow, he must have been reminded of the last time he led home a sadly depleted army after Dagorlad. Jay Author Reply: As a parent, I could really feel Ithilden's wrenching panic. The thought of losing a child is just devastating. I enjoyed showing Legolas and Eilian in the adult roles. Not that they haven't been acting as adults, but you could really see them coming into their own here (I hope). And in a way, Legolas feeding Thranduil and Ithilden was even more significant than him managing his troops well. And you are so right! Eilian would make a wonderful novice master. The Wood-elves do seem to take in on the chin. They take home two necklaces and their dead.

Bodkin	Reviewed Chapter: 17 on 7/10/2004
The results have been more than worth the effort of reading! This is again a terrific story and I have loved, anticipated and agonised over it. Your ending is about as upbeat as it could possible get in the aftermath of battle, with talk of new life and matrimony and Thranduil praising his sons. You now need to take a break with something really sweet and fluffy to help you recover. Eilian definitely needs a daughter - one just like him, but with Celuwen's independence and obstinate streak. Alfirin also needs more elflings. Another daughter would be quite fun - they could create havoc together, while wrapping their grandfather round their little fingers. I know it is a bit of a problem to do Eilian and Ithilden stories without Legolas, but frankly I don't care - I like these characters so much that I would love to read about them in the years before his arrival. I like the idea of Annael as a kind of son by marriage to Thranduil, but he will have to stop flinching at the sight of him! (Although he doesn't flinch nearly as much as Gelmir - Annael was always quite a good little elfling.) I enjoyed his practical, generous attitude to Sinnarn and Emmelin -'as soon as she tells me that I am to give her permission to marry'. He is certainly no Solith. (He would make a good lieutenant for Legolas - although I suspect he won't get it.) It must have been quite alarming for Eilian and Legolas to realise that they were the ranking officers after the battle in the absence of Ithilden and Thranduil. It wasn't just their royalty that put them in charge - the only other captain would have been the Eastern Patrol guy and maybe his lieutenant was still around. Eilian might be glad to be going back to simple captain, but, if I were Thranduil, he would be spending more time as Ithilden's deputy from now on! Loved the way Thranduil picked up how Eilian and Legolas were feeling, even in the midst of all the chaos and was able to put in his fatherly advice - after having been in charge, I expect they enjoyed being able to go back to being the young ones again for a while. (And when it comes to being in charge, I just loved the way Legolas behaved and sounded like Thranduil ''Eat', he said firmly.' and Thranduil responded as Legolas would have done in earlier years by scowling at him. Great role reversal!) Poor Galelas. (Also Todith and Nithron, but mainly him.) I hope when Legolas arrives in Valinor, he has been re-embodied and found a lovely elleth to adore him. Without having received any treasure, apart from the necklace -(good byplay) -the cost of maintaining the forces of the Woodland Realm is going to be a bit of a strain on Thranduil. I liked the king's suspicion that the peace wouldn't last long and that the new alliances have been fixed for a reason. How true. Excellent story, beautifully interwoven with the Hobbit. Can't wait to see what you do next. Author Reply: Oh yeah. I crave some elfling stuff right now. And the ending of The Hobbit is as upbeat as Tolkien can make it too: "The elf-host was on the march; and if it was sadly lessened, yet many were glad, for now the northern world would be merrier for many a long day. The dragon was dead, and the goblins overthrown, and their hearts looked forward after winter to a spring of joy." That's lovely, I think. A good time for elflings. :-) Sinnarn is going to be far luckier than Eilian is in his father in law. Annael has been running in and out of the palace since he was little. And he's wonderfully generous and easy-going, much like his father, I think. Legolas and Eilian did well managing things while Thranduil and Ithilden were wrapped up in Sinnarn. They earned the right to do it, as you say, and I can't see anyone objecting to them. (Well, maybe Tinar, but he's stunned by his younger brother's death.) It was important for Legolas to be the one caring for his oldest brother and father too. He needs to move into the group of people who take care of others. I like to envision Galelas in a place of honor in the Halls of Mandos. He craved that kind of honor in life and he earned it in death. Thank you for your kind words, Bodkin.

French Pony	Reviewed Chapter: 17 on 7/9/2004
Here's my contributions to the mass funerals: "David's Lamentation," my very favorite Sacred Harp tune. http://www.pilgrimproduction.net/sacredharp/shilo/music/20a.mp3 Dead Elves should be sung for, as well as dead Men and Dwarves. Legolas and Eilian have really come into their own now. They've done a truly bang-up job of taking care of family and army. Thranduil is right to be proud of "the little kids," as I'm sure he will always call them in his own mind. He's really raised them up right, and now he is reaping the full benefits of that. From behind him, Thranduil heard Legolas mutter to Eilian, “You see? I told you so. I should have taken the wager.” On the other hand, they still are "the little kids," I guess. . . Here's old Thranduil, trying to be formal and ceremonial and diplomatic and nice about getting a crummy emerald necklace in exchange for all those lives, and there's his royal peanut gallery behind him. Poor old Tinar. At least Galelas has one family member who'll miss him. I wonder if this will soften Tinar up a bit and shake him out of his self-centeredness. And then how that might sit with their parents. That'll be an interesting shift in the family dynamics. It's quite possible that Galelas will make more difference to his family dead than alive, which is kind of a shame for him. “What some warriors will do for an easy ride home!” Legolas teased gently. “Or is all this just to get some sympathy from Emmelin?” Funny, you know, I seem to remember that Legolas gained a couple of sisters-in-law through much the same method. Hey, if it works, why not collect a niece-in-law. Now that would probably make him and Annael some sort of cousins by marriage, and when families grow to that size, you just say "everyone's a cousin," and end of story. (I spent Independence Day with 350 cousins of varying degrees, and it's much easier just to say "cousin.") And how nice that Legolas and his best friend will now have this extra added cousinship to bind them. I do hope Annael decides to move to Ithilien later in life after the matter of Bilbo's "toy" is dealt with. Of course Eilian is good with young people. Takes one to know one. I think I'd love to have him as a babysitter. And it looks like Thranduil has decided that he needs some Emergency Backup Grandchildren, stat. And, for that matter, probably a few great-grandchildren from his prodding of Annael. How cute! Ever since Annael was a little shaver, he's been right in Thranduil's path, jumping at his commands. And now to have Thranduil as a grandfather-in-law, that's just too rich! I am snickering evilly just thinking about it. And speaking of weddings, here's a tune for Sinnarn and Emmelin: "Swanton." http://www.pilgrimproduction.net/sacredharp/ider/music/21a.mp3 Text by Isaac Watts is "The voice of my beloved sounds Over the rocks and rising grounds; O'er hills of guilt and seas of grief He leaps, he flies to my relief." Neat story! Author Reply: I'm playing "David's Lamentation" as I type this. It's beautiful. I can imagine all these male voices rising from the banks of the River Running. Thranduil is trying to see Eilian and Legolas as adults, but what's maybe more important is that they see themselves that way, especially Legolas. Eilian has been a captain for long time but Legolas is just now coming to full independence, I think. He needs to do that to choose to go on the Quest. The Elves didn't take much home from this, did they? Two necklaces and their dead. I suppose the necklaces are worth a fair amount. There were 500 emeralds in the Emeralds of Girion. But still. No greed here that I can see. Now I have the wedding song on. I can just hear elves singing that too! I like the fact that Annael is going to be a part of Legolas's family now. Legolas has always had the good fortune to be an adopted part of Annael's family. He will make a nice balance to Solith at family gatherings. Thranduil may feel that his youngest two sons are adults not but he doesn't hesitate to tell them what to do. Have elflings, Eilian! My beta says a daughter -- one who would OWN him. In truth, I don't think Tinar will ever change much. Although I suppose you never know. Elves have such a long time to learn from experience.

Lera	Reviewed Chapter: 17 on 7/9/2004
That was a wonderful story. You did so well capturing this story. And somehow you left us on a happy note, in spite of the chapter before it. Thank you. I loved seeing Legolas and Eilien working together. Legolas is truly an adult and Eilien knows and respects it as is evident in them working together. I am so glad you didn't kill Sinnarn simply for Ithilden's sake! How could you even have contemplated it? You certainly couldn't have wrapped the story up in one chapter. I think Sinnarn's death would have sent Ithilden and Alfirin sailing over the sea! "Thranduil hoped Bard's mannish ears had not been acute enough to hear Legolas and Eilien. He would speak to his two younger sons later about the need for greater discretion." I laughed aloud at this, because he still thought of them as his Younger sons in need of rebuke. But then apparently Thranduil thinks like me, because of the next paragraph. I adored seeing his respect for his sons. Legolas, because I've watched him grow up and struggle to be seen as a responsible and independent adult, and Eilien, because he's always wanted the respect and trust of his father and I've wanted them to have a better relationship because I love them both! So that was awesome. So Tinar has a heart too. Didn't expect that. It's just too bad he didn't realize his love for Galelas until it was too late. Galelas would have cherished an affectionate brother. So so so sad. Perhaps this will be the pebble that starts the avanlanche in change of his attitude. I'm still super sad about Todith. I really, really liked him. I can't help but wish you'd killed someone else. sniff On a different note, it cracked me up that Beliond's cranky. I bet he is! Nithron's death gave me a new perspective on keepers. They're more than just occasionally grumpy elves giving irritating advice to our boys. (So glad you didn't kill Maltaneur.) They really must be prepared to give their lives for them. Sigh. Well, this was a wonderful story. And I agree with Thranduil, Eilien! It's time to have elflings! A story about Eilien and Celuwen as parents would be so fun! Although we're still waiting to hear about him and Tinar working in Calith's office! Ciao and God bless. Author Reply: I think that Legolas and Eilian would work very well together. Legolas has served with Eilian as his captain, so Eilian has been relying on him as a warrior for a long time. He's seen Legolas in action in a way that Thranduil and Ithilden have not. But in this story, both Adar and Ithilden realized how capable the two "young" ones were. And that's rewarding for everyone, I think. Not that Thranduil is going to give up telling them what to do. "Have elflings, Eilian!" I suspect that Tinar will go back to being himself very soon, but the sight of his dead younger brother must have shocked him. The keepers do look more serious when you realize they're supposed to jump in front a stray arrow. Those two stories (Eilian the Ada and Eilian in Calith's office) are on my list. I'm looking forward to writing them.

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