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Dreamflower's Musings by Dreamflower	120 Review(s)
Larner	Reviewed Chapter: 2 on 11/16/2005
A wonderful list and reminder we do tend to overdo things on occasion. But Tolkien did come up with the most wonderful expressions--"Ninnyhammer! Noodles!" Yes, bless our Sam. Author Reply: "We tend to overdo things on occasion." Exactly. JRRT was a master of understatement. That is often what I find off-key in some of the over-blown stories I often come across. And as to language, well, our modern ears have been desensitized to the sorts of language that even as short a time as fifteen years ago would have been "bleeped" for public broadcast, and now is common. Sam had an extensive vocabulary of these humorous expletives--as I said, many of them were his, and except for "oh dear" or "bless me" he rarely used the same one twice, LOL!

shirebound	Reviewed Chapter: 2 on 11/16/2005
Thank you for gathering these all in one place! Author Reply: You're welcome! I thought it might be useful! 8-)

PIppinfan1988	Reviewed Chapter: 2 on 11/16/2005
Awesome--and excellent research as always! I will confess that I wasn't quite as scrupulous about my hobbits and their language when I first began writing. Long before joining SOA, as my universe developed more and more (and I was done venting), I came to realize that it was actually distasteful for (my) hobbits to use that sort of language. I tend to think of hobbits as a bit childlike (not to be mistaken or confused with childish, or children), so if I wanted to convey that in my stories, they shouldn't be cussing. So, I stopped. I think I got most, if not all, of those expletives out of my tales as I posted them here, but I can be lazy at times. If you or anyone else comes across any, please let me know--I would prefer to replace it with something more hobbity. Now that ff.net allows editing of single chapters, some day in the future I will go back there and clean those up, too. Thanks for yet another grand Musing! Hope to see another one soon! :-) Pippinfan Author Reply: Well, JRRT basically thought of "cussing" as "orc-language", and he never depicted it, even among orcs. It's not only hobbits who don't use that language, but neither do his Men, Dwarves or Elves. Ever. Even bad guys. And it has two results: first of all, it uplifts the characters of his characters--they have the restraint and the vocabulary not to use that sort of language. Now I do happen to think that occasionally some of them might. So I might say that Boromir was swearing. Or that Pippin was using language he should not have known. (The worst I've done was once having Pippin say "bloody", and Merry immediately reproving him for his language, and Merry once writing "bloody, blasted" with a strike through. I'd never do worse than that.) But the second result is one I touched on briefly. By avoiding that sort of language, and by avoiding slang and so forth, it gives the whole work a sense of timelessness that keeps it fresh and undated.

Kitty	Reviewed Chapter: 1 on 11/13/2005
Dreamflower, that was very interesting and intriguing! Although I don't write fanfic myself, I end up pondering about canon or fanon sometimes after reading something. I had only read the books when the second movie was out, then watched the first two movies and re-readed the books, and some months later started reading fanfiction, so it is not always easy to separate all details in book, movie and fanfiction, although I'm reading the books for the fifth time now to keep track of the canon. There are so many details it is not always easy to remember where I've seen it! Your essay and the ongoing discussion in the reviews and answers has helped me to answer a few questions I had about the source of some things. But even without this unexpected help it was truly interesting, and I look forward to more of this. Thank you very much for posting this! Author Reply: Thank you, Kitty, for stopping by to comment. I think we writers tend to forget that not all of those who read our stories write them as well. I was myself a reader only for a few months. That's another reason we should be careful as to how we use and blend fanon, canon and movie. Those who are not familiar with the process involved in blending them don't always realize where the boundaries are. I also tend to forget that not everyone has read the books as many times as I have. It seems odd to me when someone who writes stories admits to only having read the books once or twice, LOL! One can get in a good many re-readings in 38 years. And, then too, I write with them near at hand, as well.

Andrea	Reviewed Chapter: 1 on 11/12/2005
I'm very sorry! I tried to find that passage again - with no success! I found that Sam's eyes are brown and that the eyes of Tom Bombadil and King Theoden are blue, but nothing about Merry. Maybe, I made a mistake, but if I find something, I'll tell you! Author Reply: I'd love to know, for as far as I can tell, JRRT was very cagey with physical descriptions.

Andrea	Reviewed Chapter: 1 on 11/12/2005
I read this essay with growing interest, and I hope there will be updates! Some months ago I decided, it was high time to read the books again. And, believe me, with the movies and all those fanfiction stories in mind, it was as if a was reading it for the very first time! I'm not through, though, but I'm really enjoying it, in particular to look out for proofs of those theories I have in my mind. One of them is the color of Frodo's eyes :) I like Elijah's blue eyes and find them very fitting for my favourite hobbit, but is there a proof? Until now (the beginning of Book Three) I haven't found a clue, but I found a passage, where it's clearly stated that Merry's eyes are blue - and forgot to note it (stupid me)! But I have a scene in mind, with Frodo and Sam, where brown eyes are mentioned. Maybe, I'll find it again. Thank you again, for this wonderful essay! Author Reply: It is fun to read the books again after a long gap. When it was time for the first of the films to come out, I made a deliberate decision not to read the trilogy again until I had seen all three films ( a long three years! ) I did re-read The Hobbit and dipped my toes into the Silm again, but avoided LotR. In the January after the RotK had come out, I picked it up again, as you say, it's like reading for the first time. Is there really a passage with Merry's eye color mentioned?!? I've never come across it--would you mind steering me to it? And yes, Sam's eyes are brown, but no one else's are mentioned, save the Men of the West, whose eyes are grey, and Gandalf's which are called "black".

garrett	Reviewed Chapter: 1 on 11/12/2005
great essay. insightful and it looks like you know what you're talking about. thanks for posting it. R. Garrett Author Reply: Thank you very much! I'm glad you liked it.

lovethosehobbits	Reviewed Chapter: 1 on 11/12/2005
Thanks so much for this! I find that sometimes, I can't honestly remember what was actually written about an event or a character having read so very many fanon fics (I know, it's shameful!) and have to scan over certain chapters of the books. This helps alot...sometimes when you're in the midst of writing it is very inconvenient to consult the books. For this reason, I generally rate all of my fics AU. Most of the fics I write would be listed thus anyway, since the ideas I have are so far removed from the books. Good post, and very useful! Author Reply: I'm glad you liked this. I've been thinking these ideas over for a long time. I like the depth fanon adds to unexplained areas of Middle-earth, and enjoy trying to see where it sprang from. I do read a lot of fanfic--in fact, as far as fiction goes, and barring JRRT himself, I have read almost nothing else for a couple of years now. That's how much I like fanfic. I have read and re-read the books so many times that I usually can tell, when reading someone else's work where they have departed. I like AU as long as it keeps its roots in canon, and then takes off from there in its own direction. Everyone works in a different way. I never start a gap-filler without re-reading the relevant parts, and am constantly checking the books. Yet I know others who prefer to write first and check afterwards. To each his/her own.

PIppinfan1988	Reviewed Chapter: 1 on 11/11/2005
Very well done, Dreamflower! I thoroughly enjoyed reading your essay. Excellent research--but you've always been good with that. My experience with essays and writing a thesis is extremely limited, lol, so I'll settle for reading yours! I'd like to see your "musings" on the "Tookish lilt"! The Professor said something about anything remotely Celtic being in Bree or Buckland. Doesn't mean my view is the right one, but it's what I've interpreted. And it certainly doesn't mean that I haven't enjoyed reading about it other authors' tales, but it's something I'd like to see you explore. To me, if JRRT did not expressly state that "whatever" did, or did not happen, then that is where the imagination takes over, as long as it stays within the spirit of JRRT's fantasy. Did hobbits sleep in a pile (oh, yes--I did enjoy Baylor's story!)? I am inclined to agree that they probably didn't sleep in "piles", but perhaps they slept in close proximity for warmth. History indicates this to be true of humans, so I would reason that it is true with hobbits as well. LOL, I hated history back in my school days, and yet I find myself using my search engine to find little factoids that would help my stories with plausibility. I'm going to stop here--I could go on and on! I'd like to see your take on other memes! This could become a very popular place for interested authors--especially me! Thank you for sharing. :-) Pippinfan Author Reply: LOL! This is nothing like a scholarly paper, but it was fun. I've always enjoyed writing out my ruminations and finding out things that would back up my ideas. Of course, the "Tookish lilt" is definitely fanon, especially if one takes the films as a work of fanfic also (which I do). It does add a lot to the portrayal and perception of the Tooks. But as you say, JRRT did not indicate it would be so. I do not recollect in which letter he stated it, but you have it essentially correct. It seems to me that there is also a definite, but different, lilt to Dominic Monaghan's portrayal of Merry, as well. So there's also a bit of a Brandybuck accent as well. I don't really indicate such an accent in my stories with Pippin's or Merry's dialogue--they use the speech patterns that Merry and Pippin did in the book, upper class gentlehobbits that they are. But I will once in a while mention the Tookish lilt or Brandybuck accent--let the reader imagine the voice, rather than letting "dialect" do the work. The cold is a factor in the hobbitpile theory, but not the only one. There is security and comfort as well. My husband mentioned something else I had not thought of. He said it would make perfect sense that they huddle together like that, as hobbits are burrowing creatures! Thank you for commenting!

Larner	Reviewed Chapter: 1 on 11/11/2005
This is becoming a discussion board! I, like Lindelea, took Bilbo's headship for the Bagginses from the family tree, and also saw how Otho was next in line, and assumed that part of the reason for Otho wanting Bag End was to at least have the trappings of being Family Head for the Bagginses--didn't realize he was the one for the Sackvilles, also, but then haven't read all of Letters yet. As for the other three also having lesser forms of PTSD--to me that was a given. How can anyone go through Black Breath twice, and a horrible version the second time; or looking at the Palantir and finding himself face to face with Sauron's very soul, then the horrors of the Black Gate; or watch the one he loves most of all he knows as parent-brother-child all at the same time go through what Frodo went through, then through the horrors of Cirith Ungol and the search through the tower, and finally the trek across Mordor and the last moments of horror over the cracks themselves, and then thinking they are at last dead--how could they NOT know bad dreams at the very least? I don't write in anniversary illnesses for anyone but Frodo, but do indicate some triggers for Merry's hand going numb--such as mention of the Nazgul. I find support for this in canon in the fact that although Frodo chooses to live in the heart of the Shire with the Cottons, he gives the house at Crickhollow to Merry and Pippin. That these two would discover how changed they were and how disruptive it was to live at home with the memories coming back also seemed logical. Away from others they could become lordly sorts and hide the worst of their memories behind fair seemings and fine parties; in the Great Smials or Brandy Hall they could wake the entire place with cries at their nightmares and be driven to terror at the idea that in the worst of one someone they love might try to waken them and get run through for their efforts. Sam would have the easiest time, I thought, putting all that in its place. For Merry and Pippin--they needed a place to sort out their memories and reaccustom themselves to normal life. I even have Pippin voice these fears in The Choice of Healing. So, anyway, here's more of my two cents' worth. (Actually I suspect I'm up to at least six bits now, don't you agree?) Author Reply: Otho married the eldest daughter of the last of the Sackvilles, and added the name to his own at her family's request, so that the name would not die out, making him the family head, according to Letter #214. He was ambitious to be the first hobbit to be the head of two families at once. Oh, I thoroughly agree with your reasoning as to the others having PTSD; all of the reasons you give are not only valid, but probable. I also agree with your reasons for Frodo giving his cousins Crickhollow. He did that in my second story, in fact--"When the King Comes Back (Brandy Hall)" and used precisely that reason to sway Paladin: did Paladin want the gossip that would occur when his son woke up shrieking in terror night after night? But aside from the mere action of his doing so, canon does not really shed any light on it. And to my way of thinking, story-internally, this is because Frodo, who wrote the Red Book, was exhibiting another symptom of PTSD: detachment, and minimizing the distress in the way he wrote it out. Feel free to put in as many bits, cents, farthings or groats as you want to, dear. I'm having good fun here.

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