Time's Turnings by daw the minstrel

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Manderly · 20 January 2005 · Chapter 4: Taking on Responsibilities

How refreshing to see Ithilden being so uncharacteristically reckless, but I suppose youth gives him ample excuse to do that, especially if there is an ellyth to impress. Somehow I never pictured Ithilden being interested in anyone until he met Alfirin - shows how much of an imagination I have. And that trick with the sled - an elvish version of the skateboard, perhaps? A picture of the elves in those godawful baggy skateboard shorts actually came to my mind as I was reading that part LOL! And Eilian is off to Dale. That should be interesting. I wonder whether everyone in Dale will be his friend by the end of his visit, as Alfirin says. And what's this thing about those rumours? Your excellent story weaving is at work again, I see.

Author's reply

I think Ithilden had trouble making friends, poor thing. He's serious and intense, and he's the king's son. But I expect he noticed a pretty maid or two in the 600 years before he married Alfirin. I picture Dale as being a pretty place. I think it's the idea of the "merry bells" of Dale. We'll see how Eilian does there.

Nilmandra · 20 January 2005 · Chapter 4: Taking on Responsibilities

I can't wait to see Eilian visiting Dale - his enthusiasm is contagious. I also liked seeing a young Ithilden, jealous and making a bad decision. I would imagine he doesn't make the same mistake twice and learns from his mistakes, but nonetheless I am curious to see his parents' reaction to this type of behavior. I would imagine he took a much different parenting technique than Eilian or Legolas!

Author's reply

I'm looking forward to seeing Eilian in Dale too! Unfortunately he has work to do there, but maybe his guards can have a good time. I would think that Ithilden might be as infuriating for Thranduil as the younger two ever were, but I'll bet you're right that Thranduil doesn't have to tell him things twice. He'd berate himself far more than his parents ever would. He should listen to his mother. Of course, that's what I feel about my son too.

Tapetum Lucidum · 20 January 2005 · Chapter 3: A Warrior's Lot

It must have been painful for Legolas to be the adult in that scene. It was very well written. He did, indeed, sound like Ithilden and Thranduil. He told Sinnarn only the truth, but it was the same platitudes that he hated as a youth. Maybe next time he can be a little more consoling. The grey stallion seems like he will be a character on his own. It does not bode well that even Beliond is apprehensive about him. Thranduil is very wise when it comes to his grandson. Yes, they should be angry with him but in the big picture it doesn't really matter. Sometimes that perspective only comes with time. Well done. I liked Alfirin and Eilian pestering Thranduil for naughty Ithilden stories. It is hard to picture him as a mischievious youth. "We have assessed our strengths and know that we must support one another or we will all be lost." LOL - great line! and true too! I guess all of Thranduil's offspring were anxious to be warriors before their time. You would think they would share a little more understanding. Perhaps if Lorellin had been around they would. I love having Tinar around. He makes things so interesting. I must apologize to Foril. Everything is a competition to him - a lot like some people I know. The tracking of the men was exciting, as was the confrontation. Ok, carrying toys - how scary can these two be. I guess it made their fearful reaction even more apparent. If the toymakers fear traveling through the forest because of the elves imagine how the weapon makers feel. Go Galorion! Keep Tinar in his place. Legolas is in the dreaded position - no one trusts him to act responsibly so how does he prove his worth. You sketched out his predicament very well. Beliond is wise to keep such a close eye on his young charge. "Men loosen right up when they see you." - ha! ha! Looking forward to the next chapter!

Author's reply

I had some trouble deciding if Legolas would sympathize openly with Sinnarn or not, but I decided that Legolas is trying to be seen as an adult now and would be trying to distance himself from his nephew a little maybe. Poor Sinnarn. He really is lucky to have Thranduil, who is a wonderful grandfather. I thought that at least Ithilden and Legolas would have been eager to be warriors and take up what they see as their mission. Eilian entered the novices in a time of peace, so he might not have been so driven. Now Sinnarn is another story. I don't think he wants to be a novice so much as he wants to stop being a school child taking weapons training. He seems like a whole different set of motives to me. Tinar is fun to write about. He's such an easy target. LOL about how scary can toymakers be. Too true. They're toymakers, for pity's sake. Beliond and Legolas need to renegotiate their relationship just a little, I think. Legolas needs some breathing room.

Tapetum Lucidum · 20 January 2005 · Chapter 2: Other People's Lives

Nice start to the chapter. Annael has always been such a good friend to Legolas, it is not surprising they would have a great time even cleaning fish. I think the youngest prince still has a little crush on Annael's mom. It has evolved but there is still a lot of affection between them. Beliniel and Legolas have not spent a lot of time together in your stories. I am glad they get along. I wonder if there would ever be jealousy between them regarding Annael's time. Since elves do not consider it the way we do is it a problem for them like it is for us? Yes, an elfling is definitely in their future. I think Eilian stepped out of the woods and into hell (or at least Walmart). It was sweet of him to think of Galelas - the boy did need a mentor and Eilian was more than qualified to provide him one. The younger son's wounds even had to be in competition with his brother's. Poor kid. Gewiel seems pretty horrible as well. No wonder Tinar wanted to postpone his leave. "his fellow warriors had undoubtedly been most dismayed." LOL. I can't believe they had the nerve to push Eilian about a promotion for Tinar! He was most wise to roll that one over onto Ithilden. I don't blame Eilian for fleeing from the cabin. It was way scarier than an orc den! Very Funny! Shudder... Jumping the river that way nearly gave me a heart attack. My husband likes to jump off a cliff into our lake - it is a 40 ft drop and I get ill every time he does it. I was glad Sinnarn recoginized the danger of the boulders though I wish he had mentioned it to his Eilian-like friends. The Minstrel's lyrics were very amusing - I guess you were living up to your own pen name. I would think Legolas would be particularly mortified. Are Legolas and Sinnarn going to get to talk about their similarities? They both spent a part of the day wishing for a different life than the one they were given. Seems that they have a lot in common. Great job!

Author's reply

I love writing about Annael and his family. I still feel bad about killing the husband/father. I'm not sure the Legolas would be jealous of the time Annael spends with his wife, but he might be jealous of the intimacy. I think he might sometimes feel shut out (and rightly so). You made me laugh equating hell and Walmart. I think I know what you mean about both Walmart and Galelas's family. At least they made Eilian grateful for his own family. And it would amusing to watch them approach Ithilden about a promotion for Tinar. I can just see the incredulous look on Ithilden's face. I'm sending Legolas back to his patrol in the next chapter, so he and Sinnarn aren't going to talk much more. But Ithilden needs to think about his own youth a little, I think. I don't even like to think about your husband making that jump. He must have some Eilian in him.

White Wolf · 20 January 2005 · Chapter 3: A Warrior's Lot

I really enjoyed seeing a bit of Ithilden, when he was young. I aslo liked the exchange between Legolas and Beliond. We know, of course, what a great pair they will make in the future, once Legolas learns to fully appreciates his keeper. I could just see the fear of those men, when the elves showed up. Every time Tinár opens his mouth, I'd like to slap him. And I'm not apologizing for that, either! :o)

Author's reply

I'm glad you liked the flashback. I'm working on another scene with young Ithilden right now. He's interesting because he's so sure he's right. He's not just off doing something stupid but fun like Eilian. I think that Beliond needs to learn to appreciate Legolas a little bit too. He really does need to give Legolas a little space to try his wings. And wanting to slap Tinar is a good thing!

Brazgirl · 18 January 2005 · Chapter 3: A Warrior's Lot

Have I told you how much I adore Beliond and his vocabulary? I just think he is a great character. I love him. I also like Eilian's bodyguard, but Beliond is funnier. I love when he faces Thranduil... ahahah!

Author's reply

Beliond thanks you, Brazgirl. I've grown fond of the old grouch myself, although I'm not sure I'd want to spend a lot of time with him. He and Legolas need to work out some degree of independence for Legolas though.

sofia · 17 January 2005 · Chapter 3: A Warrior's Lot

I remember when Legolas was wishing to be of age. I liked the little flashback. I think it shows really well that Ithilden could be impatient in his youth. The men make me curious. -sofia

Author's reply

I think lots of young people wish to be adults, but I think Legolas was probably a more serious kid than Sinnarn. Legolas really did want to be a warrior. Sinnarn just wants to get out of lessons! :-) I'm glad you're curious about the men because we're going to hear more about them.

Frodo3791 · 17 January 2005 · Chapter 3: A Warrior's Lot

First off, let me just say that I have been reading this since you started posting again, and I apologize for not reviewing. I have been wanting to, but school, work, and other junk has just seemed to have gotten in the way. It's looking to be a great story though... but then again, they always are. I think I am enjoying Legolas' and Sinnarn's points of view the most. Perhaps it is because of them being younger. I know everybody loves your little Legolas stories, and I do too, but I really think I like the beginning adult years myself. Though there is always something to learn despite how old these elves can get (and that's a lot of learning that can be done), I enjoy seeing your characters really have to deal with new things, and because Legolas is a canan character, I enjoy seeing him growing into Fellowship Legolas. In fact, one of my favorite parts of the story so far has been Legolas thinking about his interest in men and Beliond not being so happy with it. There's a line in the Return of the King commentary (Oh yes, I know how geeky it is to watch the commentary, but I enjoy it... and I've only seen it once!) that Orlando Bloom talks about how he felt kind of awkward being with the other elves during the coronation scene because he kind of saw himself and his character as more than just an elf. He had spent so much time with Gimli and Aragorn and the rest of the fellowship, and so I agree with Orlando Bloom's thoughts on that, and you kind of show a bit of her difference from other elves in this chapter. Legolas is different, even before he leaves Mirkwood for the first time, and anyway, I just found it a cool little part of the story. Alright, I'm running out of time and need to get to writing my essay for school, so let me just say I've really enjoyed the story and can't wait to see more soon. -Frodo

Author's reply

Thank you, Frodo. I know what you mean about RL interfering. The nerve of people like teachers and bosses! I like writing about this stage of Legolas's life too. He is encountering new things all the time as the world opens up for him a little bit. I'm always conscious of Legolas of the Fellowship and thinking that that's where he has to wind up. And btw, I listened to most of the commentary too although I have to admit, I haven't finished the cast commentary yet. I really enjoy the "Book to Script" and "The Filming" part. What you describe about Orlando Bloom's comments suggest maybe one reason that Legolas didn't just go back to Mirkwood. He'd grown a lot during the Fellowship and gotten used to being around all different kinds of people. I hope your essay went well.

Dot · 17 January 2005 · Chapter 3: A Warrior's Lot

Ooh, an interesting one all round! LOL at Sinnarn having to apologise to his uncles. I imagine Ithilden “suggested” it might be a good idea… Eilian’s probably still standing there looking amused. I laughed as well at Legolas not wanting to sound like Ithilden. He obviously respects his brother, but that doesn’t mean he wants to speak like him! I really like the way Legolas genuinely sympathises with Sinnarn. I suppose the days of his own adolescence weren’t so very long ago. Clearly the memory of having to take on more of the obligations of his position is still vivid enough for Legolas to know what’s in store for his nephew. I don’t know if Sinnarn really does want to be a warrior instead of just training. It seems more that he just craves a bit of freedom. I don’t think, though, that he’ll believe Legolas that it’s now he has the freedom as opposed to when he’s a warrior until he sees it for himself. Stubborn males. Ah, I was hoping to see Beliond. His own horse obviously decided that obedience would be a wise step. Actually, I always imagined Beliond would be very good with animals. He does spend all that time in the forest. Like Thranduil, though, he seems to feel that a warrior needs to be more practical than Legolas seems to be! I just love the fact that Beliond knew Thranduil would still be watching! He knows him well. And it was quite touching to see that even still Thranduil feels a certain sadness at the departure of one of his sons. “Are you still angry at my grandson?” Possessive, isn’t he?? I like the fact that Ithilden was a little cool with him. That’s seldom seen. And I still find it slightly bizarre that Thranduil is the mellow one! Although he’d still be angry if any of his children stepped out of line, “fine adults” or not ;-) Trust Eilian to pick up on Thranduil’s comment! I rather suspect that Lorellin probably secretly shared some of Ithilden’s misdemeanours and difficulties with Eilian back in the days when he felt he had to live up to his older brother. I think I felt a little lump in my throat at the part about Thranduil understanding how Eilian can simply enjoy female company. I just realised how glad I am that Alfirin, and later Celuwen, came into his life. Oh, how I adored the picture of a teenage Ithilden in too-short clothes! There’s an image of awkwardness and in-betweenness (I know that’s not a word) if ever I saw one. And I loved the thought of them all looking for the stray glove. Even the thought that Thranduil could possibly misplace a glove makes me smile. And it’s such a homely picture, especially with Ithilden trying to argue his point in the middle of it. Ithilden had clearly taken every word of Thranduil’s version of the responsibility lecture to heart. He doesn’t want to be warrior for the freedom like Sinnarn does… he’s more like a very extreme version of Legolas. And boy was young Ithilden ultra-confident! I can almost feel his frustration when his parents don’t realise that he’s completely capable of fulfilling the duty of his position as Thranduil’s son ;-) I have no doubt that he loved his mother deeply but I wonder if he didn’t find it exasperating that she wanted him to simply enjoy life when he felt that he had too many other, more important, things to do. I bet Thranduil got a bit of a shock the first time Ithilden argued so strongly with him. No doubt he and Lorellin had their moments but I’d say it had been a very long time since someone stood up to him like that! Eilian, and even Legolas, might have been resentful and maybe gone and done their own thing but crikey, Ithilden would have obeyed his father but still completely believed he himself was right. I’m not a parent so I don’t know which would be more frustrating. I can see why Thranduil would have found dealing with Ithilden difficult – but Ithilden is still the one who has been able to build the most adult relationship with his father. He had longer to do it too, I suppose. The best thing about Legolas going back to his patrol is that we get to see old friends again! I like this gang. Except for Tinár, of course. With all the trees that have fallen on Legolas, can’t you let one fall on Tinár once in a while?! Poor Fóril. The thing about Legolas is that he’s genuinely so eager to learn new things. It does make it seem a little unfair that he doesn’t get the opportunity. I think he probably is about ready to be an adult. I mean, adults still make mistakes – surely he doesn’t have to prove perfection and full capability in all areas of his life. I always enjoy when your elves materialise out of nowhere and startle any passing men or dwarves. Don’t you “rifle” through something, though, not “riffle”? Anyway, these two seem extremely frightened. Who’s been spreading these rumours, then? Why didn’t Galorion ask them?? So that you could keep us guessing, I suppose! That was an awkward conversation between Legolas and Beliond. Really neither of them are likely to change their viewpoints. I feel for Beliond. With his history, I don’t blame him for being a little prejudiced. I think that maybe it was his bluntness and assertion that Legolas mustn’t do anything stupid that annoyed Legolas more so than his opinion of men. Legolas really needs to spread his wings a little, it would seem. Plus he and Beliond have probably just fallen into a rut in their relationship – things need to be ironed out somewhat but that’s unlikely to happen until their day-to-day life changes a bit. Any chance he’ll get a trip to Dale out of this?! So, the plot is unfolding and I’m becoming intrigued – all is right with the world! Great chapter :-)

Author's reply

Oh yeah. Ithilden sent his wayward son to apologize to the two guests of honor at the previous night's feast. And Eilian is probably still laughing. Or maybe he was discrete. It's possible! I think Beliond and Legolas's relationship needs to be worked out a little in this story. Right now I have shown them as Legolas comes fresh from the novice training and then 100 years down the road when he's hunting dragons. I think there was probably some shake out in between and this is a good chance to show it. I think it's important not just for the relationship itself, but for Legolas's developing confidence as a warrior. And I'm also wondering if Beliond doesn't get a teensy bit bored sometimes. If Legolas thinks this is routine, I can only imagine what Beliond thinks. I'm laughing at the idea that Lorellin told Eilian some good Ithilden stories. She just might have. Although maybe not. I suspect she respected Ithilden's privacy too. I'll bet she drove Ithilden crazy sometimes. She's such a wood elf and he's --- not. Still I don't imagine he rolled his eyes at her more than once when Thranduil was around. I picture him as taller than his age mates and eager to be getting on with his role as the king's son. He was sure he was ready. And I think he would have wanted the approval and so on that would come from fulfilling that role. Hanging around as an indulged kid would have seemed humilating to him. Now Sinnarn is a different kettle of fish. I doubt very much if eagerness to fulfill his responsibilities is the reason he wants out of lessons. I'm guessing that curiosity is one of the reasons Legolas was good for the Fellowship. He's open to learning in a way that older elves, weighed down by history, are not. Yes. Rifle not riffle. I changed it. Thank you. Riffle is a very odd word. I looked it up and I'm still not sure what it means.

White Wolf · 17 January 2005 · Chapter 2: Other People's Lives

Sorry. I'm behind on my reviews. All the while I was reading about Sinnarn's river-jumping escapade, I couldn't help thinking of how much like Eilian he is. I hope for his family's sake, he doesn't turn out to be quite as much of a daredevil. Now I'm off to read the next chapter!

Author's reply

I wrote a lot over the weekend and posted quickly, so I guess I sort of strained a lot of people's reviewing patience. :-) Sinnarn is like Eilian. What a curse for his two rather conventional parents! What did they do to deserve this?

Elena Tiriel · 17 January 2005 · Chapter 3: A Warrior's Lot

Catching up on my story- and review-reading: I tell one little lie and it ends up in the LA Times! Is that fair??? Oh, Daw! LOL! That is just hilarious! Your Daw-verse children in the real world... *snicker* And as far as your embarrassing condition of writing fast -- don't worry, dear. We readers are really very tolerant of embarrassing conditions... don't try to hide it or compensate on our behalf... ;-) I can relate to Legolas so well... I'm over *cough*the age of Elven majority*cough*, and it still somewhat surprises me when people feel required to apologize to me for something I wasn't in the least bit offended by... Well, Beliond is never shy about expressing his opinions, is he? By word or look... (Love that guy! and I nearly had a heart attack when you said "Beliond would protect Legolas with his life if he had to." I was going: Oh, no! NO! FORESHADOWING! FORESHADOWING! But I recovered when I remembered he was around for much later stories... You just can't scare your poor readers like that, Daw!) Enjoyed the flashback with Ithilden... more, please! He seems like such a solemn child... and so thoroughly *responsible*! Reminds me a little of myself when I was a kid: I was in an S&H Green Stamps store walking around looking (but not touching) quietly, as was my childhood wont, and I looked out the window and saw my parents get into the car and prepare to leave (they had forgotten I was with them). (A bit sad, but oh well...) What is so incredible and genuinely funny to me now, as an adult, was my reaction: "Oh, well, guess I'll have to take care of myself from now on." I was so *thoroughly* convinced in my seven-year-old mind that I would be responsible for myself, without having a ***clue*** what that entailed... (In an adult, we would call that delusional...) But enough about me ;-D: I see that kind of overly-optimistic immaturity, albeit significantly less extreme, in Sinnarn (and in Legolas, in your adolescent!L stories...) Loved seeing Legolas' cool competence in his role as warrior. But Galorion missed asking the intruders the obvious question, no doubt because that would have tipped your hand too soon ;-)... Who is spreading such lies about the Elvenking? What do they have to gain by further estranging the Lake and the Wood? Hmmmm, methinks a conspiracy's afoot... I love Legolas' words about the Men seeming more rational if he could walk a mile in their shoes... Poor Beliond, with his memories of the Last Alliance, must absolutely quail when he hears Legolas talk like that... But that was also very perceptive of Legolas to realize that part of the reason that Thranduil and Ithilden didn't see his new-found maturity is because of the (over) protection of Beliond. I foresee some sort of a break coming... but for now, they can tease each other and smile. Keep those chapters coming embarrassingly fast! Please? - Barbara

Author's reply

Yeah. The LA Times story is much funnier in retrospect than it was when I froze every time the phone rang! Legolas may not have been offended by Sinnarn's lateness, but Ithilden firmly believed that an apology was in order so that's what Legolas got. Eilian too, which must have made him howl. Or maybe he was discrete enough to behave like Legolas and suppress his amusement. What do you think? Sometimes I think it would be better if I had written these stories in order. As it is now, readers are made very comfortable knowing who survives for at least some stories, and I have to resort to killing people like Annael's poor father. So how long did it take your parents to realize they'd forgotten something? My sister has three kids and they were rushing around one day getting ready to go out and got in the car and drove away and realized they'd forgotten the baby. He was still in the playpen at home, probably enjoying the peace and quiet. I think Legolas is very good as a warrior and I think his impulse to question the men about the rumor was a good one, although he was right to hold his tongue, given the chain of command. He does need a chance to prove himself. I'm NOT writing today. I'm doing a big puzzle my son gave me for Christmas. I've been crazily productive. I need to pretend to be normal!

caz-baz · 17 January 2005 · Chapter 3: A Warrior's Lot

Tinar makes me laugh but i do feel sorry for his brother. My mother is usually taken advantage of like Eilian was because she's a lawyer - rather amusing most of the time because she's not the most tolerable of people, good job Eilians very laid-back. I must say i do prefer the more spirited horses that's why i tend to buy Thoroughbreds straight off the racetrack. I'd hate it if my mother told me what she thought of any of mine but my fathers as crazy as me and likes the wild bunch i have. Good chapter caz

Author's reply

I figure all of Thranduil's sons had to learn from childhood how to deal with people trying to take advantage of their relationship to the king. They'd also have to learn how to keep private things that they heard at home. It would be tricky and might make them feel cut off from people sometimes. Eilian is quite good at it though. It's good to have at least one parent as crazy as you!

Ms. Whatsit · 17 January 2005 · Chapter 3: A Warrior's Lot

Ah, so someone's been poisoning the men's ears about Thranduil, hmm? At least Legolas only has to deal with Tinar on patrol, unlike Galelas. I would not like to grow up in the same house as Ithilden. It would be infuriating and uncomfortable. It's fun to see Legolas around Sinnarn. Showing him around a younger character indicates how much he's grown and how able and experienced he is now.

Author's reply

There do seem to be evil rumors afloat. We'll have to check that out. Ithilden would be an awful sibling if you were the same age. He'd be so sure he was right that you'd just want to smack him. At least by the time Eilian and Legolas come along, he's an adult and I think has learned a bit of his own limits. I'm glad you like the contrast between Legolas and Sinnarn. He has grown.

Alice · 17 January 2005 · Chapter 3: A Warrior's Lot

I wondered when we were going to see our favorite testy bodyguard. Legolas must have loosened Beliond up a bit in the next few centuries before Rivendell, because he was slightly more open minded towards men then. Slightly. It's nice seeing how Legolas's interest in men is sort of unusual among elves. Though really the obvious answer to his question of them being unusually scared is, " Huh, cause people when stopped by stony elvish warriors are just usually so relaxed." He does need more experience with men, though I personally would not encourage him in that in Beliond's hearing. Oh, I loved the scene with Ithilden being young. Actually, I just loved Lorellin helping Thranduil because it's just such a normal thing to be doing. I think Thranduil should tell Alfirin stories of Ithilden's youth though. You know Lorellin so would have. Oh, and having seen Tinar in his native environment, might I say that he and his wife are well matched? Both are just so darn whiny. Honestly. It's incredible Tinar lasted so long in the regular patrols. Or that he isn't responsible for driving half a dozen of his fellow warriors crazy. Be nice to Foril and send Tinar home to his shrewish wife. So, excellent chapter. I like the stories involving men. It's interesting to see them from an elvish perspective. Update soon!

Author's reply

I think that Legolas's and Beliond's relationship still needs some working out. Beliond still thinks of Legolas as the green kid he got from the novice training, but Legolas needs a chance to grow. And you're right about the men! I don't think I'd be too composed under the circumstances either. I was pleased about that searching-for-a-lost-glove scene, I have to admit. I tend to make all their conversations happen around meals (I shouldn't say that because now you'll see it every time), so I've been trying to think of other things for them to do. The arrow fletching in "Good Neighbors" started off as just something like that and then grew into a plot element. So I was happy to actually be able to think of something this time too. Lorellin would have taken great delight in telling Ithilden stories!!! You are so right. It's so too bad that she's not there. They all need her. At least Tinar and his wife are with each other, which is good. They're not out there taking up good people who should be married to someone else.

Jay of Lasgalen · 17 January 2005 · Chapter 3: A Warrior's Lot

Ithilden had always been stubborn. In some ways, even Eilian had been easier to deal with. Pardon? Thranduil is admitting that Eilian *isn't* the most difficult of his sons? I don't believe it! Legolas is in a rather awkward position at home. He's close enough in age to Sinnarn to understand exactly what he's going through, but is also old enough to see matters from other perspectives. The encounter with the Men was interesting - who's been bad-mouthing Thranduil? Why were they so scared, and convinced that the 'Elvenking' had forbidden travel? What tales have they heard? Tinár is Tinár, of course - I do hope something happens to him to prick his ego! Jay

Author's reply

LOL. Note the "in some ways" part of that admission, Jay. I think that when Eilian got in trouble, it was inadvertent. He just didn't think. But I'll bet Ithilden simply decided he was right and said so. That would make Thranduil nuts. And I think your assessment of Legolas's position right now is accurate. He is closer in age to Sinnarn than to Eilian even. That has to produce some sympathy. But he's also an adult, more or less. I think we need to investigate those men some more, don't you? Tinar wouldn't even notice if a pile of ego-destroying-dust fell on him.

Manderly · 17 January 2005 · Chapter 3: A Warrior's Lot

It must be so very hard for Thranduil to say goodbye to his sons when they leave on patrol. I find it hard sometimes to say goodbye to my daughters when they go out for the evening let alone if they were out battling orcs and whatnots. Legolas is just rearing to prove himself, isn't he? Can't blame him too much as he has been smothered by all those around him. He's quite a bit like his new horse. Maybe that's why he chose him. I guess the relationship between Beliond and him is still fairly new as they seem to be testing each other out still. Well, we all know where that's going eventually. Somehow I don't think those men are quite as innocent as they appear or maybe I just have a suspicious mind, just like Beliond. As for Tinar, can you arrange to have him fall from a tree and land on his arse. Might knock some sense into him as I think that's where he keeps his brains.

Author's reply

When I was writing about Legolas's leaving, I was trying to imagine what I feel when my son leaves (not to risk his life, I hasten to add) and it's very hard to articulate these deep emotions. It's as if words are inadequate. I suppose that's what real writers do for us. The relationship to Beliond still needs to be shaken out a little. Beliond got him straight from the novice masters and hasn't given him much space until now. It needs to happen. The next story in the series chronologically right now is "Fire and Shadow," and by that time, Legolas is pretty self confident as a warrior, although Eilian still keeps him away from danger. But Beliond lets him run a little more, I think. LOL about Tinar. I don't think he'll ever change.

Bodkin · 17 January 2005 · Chapter 3: A Warrior's Lot

Let's all sing together: a warrior's lot is not a happy one, a happy one, a warrior's lot is not a happy one. That well-known ditty from The Wood-Elves of Penzance. I'm glad Legolas managed to keep a straight face while Sinnarn apologised. And refrained from telling him a) that he would be grown up soon enough and b) that being an adult was not about doing what you want. Legolas grimacing at sounding like Ithilden. What a hoot. His taste in horses is a bit worrying though. It's almost as if he is so controlled (both self-controlled and by external forces (aka Adar)), that he enjoys that bit of wildness in his horse. It also seems to be about the only decision he is actually allowed to make. Good to see the farewell - still affecting, but now mundane. I thought it was really interesting to see Ithilden being a bit cool with the indulgent Daeradar over Sinnarn - the elfling is adding a different sort of strain to the father/son relationship. (By the way, what happened to Mrs. Oropher?) And I loved the twitch of interest in Eilian and Alfirin to hear that Ithilden wasn't perfect. Surely it is part of Thranduil's role to undermine his son a little by telling embarrassing stories to his brother and wife. Where are the nude baby-on-a-rug pictures? Where are the family legends about the time that Ithilden did . . . ? It's unfair on Eilian not to know some of those 500 year old misdemeanours - and it's even more unfair on Alfirin! She needs some information to give her more ammunition. She ought to start chatting with some of the old family retainers - I'm sure they would provide her with interesting information. (And they'd probably tell her some things that Adar wouldn't - or, come to that - things that he might not know!) Loved Thranduil's sudden awareness that Ithilden was often more difficult than Eilian. I suppose that mostly, when Eilian was wrong, he was WRONG, whereas it would have taken an awful lot to convince Ithilden that he wasn't right all along and it was the world that was out of step. 'Ithilden threw them both a withering look.' Why is it that parents need to be fireproof? Adolescents spend so much time being withering, or long-suffering or contemptuous of them! Legolas needs a bit more of a challenge. He's been in that patrol for a long time. And he probably does need to go through the Battle of Beliond - who needs to realise that he is no longer fresh from the hands of the novice masters and give him a bit more rope. Good grief but Tinar is a complete wally. I don't know why I'm sorry for his wife: she spends far less time with him than his patrol does. I don't know how Foril stands it. (At least it gives Legolas one really good reason to appreciated being superglued to Beliond.) So, to whose benefit is it to terrify the Men of Dale with scary stories of Evil Thranduil and his dangerous elves? I don't think the elves have any prejudice against toy-makers . . . yet. Legolas is right to want to ask more questions. It is not to the Realm's benefit to have stories like that noised abroad. Before you know where you are, it'll be dwarves trying to hide from the elves - and who knows what trouble that might lead to!

Author's reply

In some ways, Legolas admires Ithilden, but he's not ready to sound like him yet. I think both Eilian and Legolas think of Ithilden as pretty conventional. Maybe Thranduil should tell them those stories about Ithilden's youth! I don't know what happened to Mrs. Oropher. Maybe she sailed after he died? I have no idea. She's still around in Elliska's story, at least until Thranduil finds his feet, but she seems to be absent from mine (as she is from Tolkien's). Hm. I think that when Eilian got in trouble, it was unintentional. He just didn't think and was in hot water to his neck before it dawned on him that maybe this wasn't such a good idea. But I think Ithilden might have considered things and then confronted Thranduil quite directly. He would be maddening actually, so sure of himself. And I'll bet his wood elf mother just made him roll his eyes on a regular basis -- although not in his father's presence. Not more than once at any rate. Legolas does need a challenge. I'll have to see what I can do about that. Maybe a visit to Dale is in order?

perelleth · 17 January 2005 · Chapter 3: A Warrior's Lot

And.. there it goes! Mistery in Mirkwood! Somebody is trying to isolate the wodland realm? Shortage of iron, and now someone dares spread falsehoods about the Elvenking... mmm shall we see Thranduil in all his might and wrath in this story? (nods repeatedly! ;-) I smiled at the flashbacks of Ithilden's childhood... I.. fail to see him doing anything mischievous... indeed his way of annoying his adar was to insist on starting his duty earlier than appointed!!!;-) He is simply lovable. I picture him as a tidy dutiful elfling, always importantly busy just like his Ada... I remember you said Ithilden is quite older than his brothers, so growing up as lonely child and heir of a king must somehow marked his character, and he is so alike Thranduil it is almost funny... giving him such a lively and active elfling for a son seems a bit of vengeance from your part...but I'm sure he's going to do it well with him, maybe he has had good practice seeing Eilian growing up... It is interesting now, for Sinnarn and Legolas are quite close in age now, and they seem to feel along the same lines regarding their respective parents protectiveness... they may reinforce each other's frustrations and aggravations...they simply seem ready to start a contest of "who's more inmature?" poor Beliond! By the way, is any of your stories from any of the "minders'" point of view? I find them both very interesting. Maltanaur seems to give Eilian quite more credit than his own Adar, which seems a good way to dealing with him, while Beliond for now seems intent in showing the "pampered princeling" how ugly and annoying people can be to one another in the real world!!( i'm joking, i do like him! ;-)

Author's reply

Clever reader! It does look as if someone is trying to create problems between the men and elves, doesn't it? Thranduil will not like that a bit if he finds out. :-) I doubt if Ithilden was getting drunk and riding his horse through the palace halls or anything. His way of being difficult would come from his arrogance (which in turn comes from his competence) and his sense of responsibility. He's just sure he knows best! Of course, lots of adolescents think that. Sinnarn is a very different kind of kid. He just wants a little more freedom. I doubt if Ithilden thought about becoming a warrior in those terms. Both Legolas and Sinnarn are interested in being seen as adults, but I think Legolas may actually be ready to be one! More or less, anyway. None of the stories is completely from a minder's pov, although there are occasionally small sections that way. I can think on one in a fairly late chapter of "The Warrior" that was from Maltanaur's. On my list of possible stories, I have one from the pov of the minders or maybe of several minor characters (including the wives?). That might be interesting to do.

esamen · 17 January 2005 · Chapter 3: A Warrior's Lot

OK. I am liking this story very much. I love the action and adventure of warriors on patrol, and the marvelous way that we all get to travel through the trees and intimidate Men along with the Elves. I just relish the Beliond/Legolas interchanges. Beliond is a window onto Elvish history for me, since I have not read much Tolkien beyond the story of the quest. He seems to have a very different perspective on war and history than the other Elves you write. Is it because he lost his son? I love his single-minded devotion to Thranduil and Legolas. It is a fantastic foil to Legolas's own yen for adventure. Your description of Legolas's leavetaking left a lump in my throat. What a fabulous way to start a chapter! And the vignette of Ithilden's boyhood was wonderful. Ithilden is becoming more and more dear to me with each new story. Now, the only thing that I can ask for is more fabulous woodland Elvish adventure with lots of danger, and my hero showing his quality as a preternaturally gifted warrior and lion-hearted son of the elvenking. A little noble sacrifice on Legolas's part and Beliond's true love for him coming through would be just awesome. Can't wait for the next chapter! Thanks!

Author's reply

I'm so glad you like it. The reviews have been very slow coming in and I was worried that this chapter was boring. And I do like writing about Beliond and Legolas. I think their relationship is probably still having the kinks worked out by this time. Legolas is no longer the green newbie and Beliond has to back off, but he's afraid to back off too much. That could be disastrous! I think of Beliond as part of a much older generation. He experienced the betrayal of Isildur. He might even have been in Doriath when the dwarves sacked the place. And he's been one of Thranduil's spies, which I think suggests that he's not very trusting. And of course he's lost his son and his wife sailed. So he's an interesting character to me. He needs Legolas, I think, but I also think he must be bored sometimes. The Eastern Border Patrol has to be pretty humdrum compared to what he's used to. There's more of Ithilden's childhood in my outline. And I'm hoping there some adventure too.

perelleth · 17 January 2005 · Chapter 2: Other People's Lives

Whoa! Two at a time, or almost! Seems you've had a very productive vacation indeed!! (Claps hands excitedly). I loved the title of this chapter, and how it evolved, it was quite moving to see the three children interacting around and just looking at others and then back to themselves...so in character with each of them...I suppose everybody has that kind of insecurities when growing up and trying to find the place you fit in... and this sons of Thranduil have so little to none chance to simply be themselves. I like the introspective mood it's getting...I mean, it makes sense with that quiet moment in the garden in the first chapter, when you show Alfirin and Ithilden so happy and relaxed, and the uneasiness in Eilian and Legolas.. sure they're still trying to discern their way to adulthood, and it is a good way to show it... Legolas finds comfort in the quiet ordered life of his best friend, though knowing he would not be content with that for long, and Eilian being Eilian simply discovers that there are worse parents than his, even whole families of them! And Sinnarn!!! Oh my! poor Ithilden! It's funny, this family has hardly survived an adolescent and they're now graced with another! Time flies! Anyway, Ithilden is a quick learner and has seen his father deal with Eilian and Legolas...and has Alfirin too.. Mmm I think that can make for some funny situations... I can almost picture the troop commander cornered by wife and son... ;-) And now to chapter three!!!!

Author's reply

I'm an unnaturally fast writer, I'm a little embarrassed to say. And this is a long weekend. Anyway, I always enjoy a chance to look at life outside the palace in Mirkwood, and I particularly love a chance to write about Annael's family. I still feel bad about killing off the father. This cottage has been a refuge for Legolas his whole life, and it makes me happy to see Annael happy too. Oddly enough, he's the head of his household. That's quite a contrast to Legolas, who is barely allowed to move without someone keeping an eye on him. One of the things about the long elven childhood is that they'd be more or less adolescent for 20 years. Maybe that's one reason the children are usually far apart! Alfirin has high standards and probably isn't going to indulge Sinnarn, but I'll bet she's fierce in his defense too, and she's had some experience of how difficult it can be to live in the restrictions of the royal family.

thechevin · 17 January 2005 · Chapter 3: A Warrior's Lot

Another update to enjoy and Legolas back with Beliond that most curmudgeonly of elves although I note with a smile he seems to agree with everyone else's opinions on Legolas' ability to choose his own horse You could really sense Legolas' growing unhappiness at how his progress as a warrior was in his view at least being blocked by his need of a minder As for those human's carrying toys hmm! I don't like the sound of them at all and thought it was interesting that Legolas would have asked further questions of them had he been given the opportunity The flashback to Ithilden's youth was lovely but as for Thranduil thinking he might have been worse than Eilian I think the king needs to lie down for a bit and think about that thank you I am so enjoying this new tale Judy

Author's reply

My beta likes Beliond too. I think that he and Legolas still have a few kinks to work out in their relationship. It's really hard for Legolas to learn to stand on his own under the circumstances, and yet you can see why he needs a bodyguard. He's a natural target and Thranduil would be having a heart attack, not to mention how stressed out any captain he served under would be. And Legolas shows some curiosity and good judgment about asking the men for more information, I thought. He doesn't necessarily know that himself, I suppose. LOL about Thranduil trying to remember Eilian a little more clearly before he says Ithilden was worse. I'll bet Ithilden was really stubborn and maybe occasionally confrontational, while Eilian was always surprised to find he was in trouble again (even when he shouldn't have been). More on Ithilden's youth coming up.

French Pony · 17 January 2005 · Chapter 3: A Warrior's Lot

That's so Ithilden, to make Sinnarn go and apologize to people who weren't offended in the first place. Of course, it reflects as much back on Ithilden as on Sinnarn. But then, both Legolas and Sinnarn are channelling Ithilden, for it was Ithilden who kept trying to cool Legolas down when Legolas was just itching to be a warrior. All young elves are just champing at the bit to get into the army, are they? I suppose the threat, "shape up or I'll pack you off to the military academy" doesn't do anything with young elves. And Legolas joins the Elf version of the TSA, searching bags for fun and profit. At least the Border Patrol has the good sense to go and tell someone when they see something that doesn't quite feel right, even if there's no overtly incriminating evidence. Those Men will be causing trouble (maybe they'll strew toys around for unsuspecting adars to stub their toes on in the dark?) sooner or later. I guess this is the best the Elves can do without turning into El Al. And Tinár shows off his remarkable brain power. The only thing he's interested in is besting his companions at tracking, not in actually doing something useful by drawing conclusions from the evidence turned up by said tracking. Real brainiac, that one. But I forget. He's perfect, so sayeth naneth and adar.

Author's reply

I thought it was very Ithilden-ish. He figured this feast was in honor of his two brothers and Sinnarn's lateness was rude, which it probably was, whether Legolas was offended or not. And the thing about Sinnarn is, I'm not sure he's itching to be a warrior. What he's itching to do is have a little fun and freedom! He should enjoy what he has now. I had to laugh at your description of elven adars stubbing their toes in the dark on toys. My son had tons of those little Fisher Price people. I swear they multiplied in the dark. You get one of those in the arch of your bare foot and it really hurts! The Men were sure it was the Elvenking causing trouble. We'll get back to that.

The Karenator · 16 January 2005 · Chapter 3: A Warrior's Lot

Let me guess: Who sent Sinnarn to apologize? He's sort of like the thief that Rhett Butler told Scarlett O'Hara about...not at all sorry that he stole, but sorry as hell that he got caught. Sinnarn's such a typical kid chomping at the bit to grow up, but not mature enough to handle the responsibilities. He longs for adventure and thinks when he comes of age, that no one will tell him what to do anymore. Boy, is he in for a rude awakening. I enjoyed the surly Ithilden moment. And I really liked Thranduil's reply to Eilian about why he couldn't share this information. 'Fearsom form'. Too bad Ithilden didn't hear this. I'm sure he would have gotten a laugh out of that description. In some ways, even Eilian had been easier to deal with. Now, that was a startling admission for Thranduil to make. Okay...the men. I know what they're doing. They're transporting across realm lines dang!wath in those toys. The elves need a few illegal-herb-sniffing dogs. Well, they're acting awfully suspicious! I don't know if the men or the rowdy horse will be more trouble to Legolas in this story. Or possibly, Beliond. This keeper has an iron fist where his charge is concerned. Legolas may have made peace with having a keeper, but Beliond still irritates Legolas sometimes. Can't say I blame him...and I love Beliond, the grouch. But Beliond's from the generation that remembers Isildur's betrayal. That would be a little hard to get over. I'm looking forward to finding out what the men are up to, whether Legolas's horse will behave, will Sinnarn do something foolish, and who will finally plant a fist in Tinar's arrogant mouth? This is looking fun. Karen

Author's reply

Good guess, oh parent of boys. Ithilden sent him to apologize to both Legolas and Eilian. I couldn't imagine how Eilian would react! That's one reason you don't see it. How Sinnarn can look at his warrior family and think that adults do as they please is beyond me, but it seems to be a mistake lots of kids make. I think that Ithilden would have been unbelievably stubborn and sure of himself as an adolescent. I can imagine him butting heads with Thranduil pretty directly and deliberatly, while Eilian committed most of his offenses with his mind totally on something else. Beliond is more close minded than Legolas would like to be. I think that all of Thranduil's sons are more open minded. They don't have the burden of history and long memory that the older generation bears. Thanks for the review, Karen.

meckinock · 16 January 2005 · Chapter 3: A Warrior's Lot

I can't wait to hear more about Ithilden's misspent youth. I'm sure whatever havoc he wreaks with his parents away will result from only the very best of ueber-responsible intentions! As I was reading the scene with Legolas and Sinnarn, I smiled at Legolas's preservation of formality and his restraint from letting Sinnarn off the hook too easily, and wondered what how the conversation would have gone if it had been Eilian and not Legolas to whom Sinnarn decided to apologize. I'm afraid it might have devolved into something out of "Wayne's World." Interesting that Legolas is beginning to feel somewhat...unchallenged by his assignment and somewhat repressed by Beliond's perpetual influence. It would be very difficult to develop as a leader with a Beliond constantly at your shoulder, I think. While there is much Legolas can learn from him, I think he could not help but influence Legolas's decisions whether he intended to or not; and clearly sometimes he intends to. How do you know if you can ride without training wheels if they've never been off? Moreover, his priorities would sometimes necessarily be at odds with Legolas's. Legolas's priority would be the success of the mission, while Beliond's is Legolas's safety. That's a touchy enough balance with a head of state, but with a warrior whose job it is to go into danger and lead warriors, it could be awfully contentious at times. This will bear watching....

Author's reply

More about Ithilden's youth will be coming right up! In my head, Sinnarn didn't "decide" to apologize to anyone. His parents sent him to do it to both Legolas and Eilian. We didn't get to see the scene with Uncle Eilian, which I suspect would have been very amusing. Eilian must have been very confused to be the apolgizee rather than the apologizer. I'm not sure he'd know how to act. I thought that about Beliond too. You can see that Maltanaur lets Eilian make his own decisions and then backs him up however he needs it, but Beliond is still ordering Legolas around. Their relationship needs to change a little, I think.

elliska · 16 January 2005 · Chapter 3: A Warrior's Lot

Well, the frightened Men who think the Elvenking has barred Men from the forest are certainly an interesting development. As always, I love Legolas' interaction with Beliond. I remeber being asked on an oral exam once to explain which of a list of characters I would prefer to meet. I have to say, as appealing as many of your characters are, of all of them it is Beliond I would most like to meet. His personality is just too much. I think it would be challenging in a very interesting way. Sinnarn apologizing to Legolas was too cute. Poor kid. And that must have seemed quite funny to Legolas. I'm sure he remembers that sort of thing and to be the recipient must feel strange. And to hear Sinnarn talking of adventures when Legolas has learned that being a warrior is not an adventure. It's a pity young people have to learn things like that from experience. The comparison of Sinnarn's frustration and Ithilden's through the flashback (thanks so much for that--love it when you do that so we can get little pre-Legolas glimpses) was very interesting. You've done a good job of making each of these many male children all long to become warriors for different reasons. I loved the conversation between Ithilden, Alfirin, Eilian and Thranduil. Thranduil's refusal to discuss Ithilden with either Eilian or Alfirin and their reactions was too funny. Great dialogue there. PS. I read in one of the reviews from the last chap that you mentioned the idea of exploring Legolas' maternal grandparents. Yes please! That would be very interesting.

Author's reply

Yes, the men! A plot element! Yay! My beta always likes reading about Beliond too. Frankly, I'm not sure I'd want to spend large amounts of time with him. He's a tad on the irritable, bossy side. Sinnarn's parents sent him to apologize to Uncle Eilian too, who must really find it odd to be the one on the receiving end of the apology for bad behavior! I'd like to do a little more flashback about Ithilden in this story. I think we need to see what he got up to while Thranduil was away. Maternal grandparents? OK. It's on the list.