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Stirring Rings by Larner	11 Review(s)
Linda Hoyland	Reviewed Chapter: 11 on 10/26/2006
You vividly bring to life events Tolkien tells us little about, Author Reply: That's the fascination with writing fan-fiction--trying to fill in gaps. And this is such a horrid part of the history of Middle Earth.

Kitty	Reviewed Chapter: 11 on 10/20/2006
sigh Just when I thought Saruman did for once something useful, it had to help the rebells. And the consequences were horrible. Poor Ornendil. In the end Eldecar proved to be the much better ruler, merciful and just. The way he treated the Lord of Anfalas must have impressed everyone. Interesting to see how much Saruman tried to avoid Galadriel, seemingly fearing her. But I had to grin about his musings just who might have the third ring. It didn't occur to him the humble Gandalf could be the one, didn't it, and that was probably for the better. Don't want to think too much about what he would have done if he had known Gandalf wielded Narya. Author Reply: Saruman knows what he is good at, but has no idea how to foresee consequences. And, as you've noted, this time they were pretty horrible. Tolkien states that Castamir managed to destroy much of Osgiliath and killed Eldecar's eldest son cruelly, and generally was pretty awful. That many who feared Eldecar would be less than his Dunedain ancestors were shocked to learn that in this case the one of "purer" blood was an intolerant, heartless tyrant who cared less for their customs than the "half-blood" he replaced seems logical. Unfortunately, Tolkien indicates that Eldecar still appears to have favored his northern relatives over many of his own lords, and so in the end he lost the chance to do more good than he could have done. And once Saruman begins to suspect where the third Elven Ring truly is, I suspect he will be wildly jealous.

French Pony	Reviewed Chapter: 11 on 10/8/2006
I really liked reading about Saruman inventing a sewer system. It's a wonderful dual-edged sword for him -- on the one hand, he's really providing a useful service of the sort that goes to show why people trust him. But, on the other hand, sewer systems like that are a weakness for a walled city, and the denizens of Middle-earth are the sort to take note of little details like that. I thought the passages about the civil war were less interesting. They seemed somewhat dry and distanced, almost as though they were a recitation from a history text. Author Reply: I can certainly see Saruman, the "Man of Skill," coming up with ideas intended to try to make folk beholden to himself, seeking praise and wonder. Thinking ahead to how those systems might be used against the folk who put them into practice, however, is something quite else. And am sorry the war comes off more dry. I'll consider revising it, but hope you don't mind if it's a while before I do so. I know what you mean about many history texts being dry, and I suspect that's why this section in the Appendices tends to get skipped over quite a bit.

harrowcat	Reviewed Chapter: 11 on 10/7/2006
At last - I've found time for a quick review to a long chapter. Thanks for enlightening me a lot about this period of history. Well done Larner. Author Reply: A difficult part of the Appendices to work through, I found. So glad it has appeared to help you and Dreamflower especially to appreciate what happened there better. Thanks, Harrowcat. Hope Anna's mom is doing well.

Lúmë	Reviewed Chapter: 11 on 10/7/2006
Rhyming review #3: Those who foment discontent Must be careful what they ask for Usurpers often will torment Those who'd their rightful lord forswore As for Saruman, I was surprised to see him do something useful ... but, as Sting (the singer, not the sword!) once put it: "I never saw no miracle of science, that didn't go from a blessing to a curse". Also interesting to note how Gandalf is fulfilling his role as a guide and advisor almost anonymously, while Saruman is endeavouring to be great by doing clever things without regard for the consequences. Author Reply: The rhyming reviews are so delightful! I am honored! Castamir was a rotter from the word go--no empathy to the Man at all, which makes him a BAD choice as a candidate for any office in which he holds authority over others. No empathy and no respect for tradition or history. And Saruman's lack of foresight indeed worked to the detriment of Gondor. Gandalf takes the advising part of his job seriously, but doesn't care who takes credit for the actions taken as a result as long as they get made. Saruman is still too full of himself.

Raksha The Demon	Reviewed Chapter: 11 on 10/7/2006
Saruman certainly enjoys the sound of his own voice, doesn't he! Still, I think the planning of efficient sewer systems was an inspires stroke; and could probably prevent much disease in the future. Unfortunately, neither Saruman nor anyone else thought of placing grates to prevent the two-legged type of infection from damaging Osgiliath through the tunnels. Saruman really should have paid more attention to the ents! Good chapter, and excellent conception of the sewer system, not just for mountainside cities, but other human habitations. Author Reply: Yes--as Bodkin noted in an earlier review, absolutely too much self in Saruman's makeup. But he's not all bad, after all. Thinking of using sewers as entranceways into strong places hasn't yet been something he's considered, although he's now learned the lesson he'll refer to down the road when looking at how to breech the Deeping Wall. And he failed to appreciate just how EVERYONE in Middle Earth has a role to play as time goes on.

Bodkin	Reviewed Chapter: 11 on 10/7/2006
A very nasty period. And, again, Saruman is no help at all. Mind far too much on matters of power and far too little on helping the people who live in Middle-earth. I like it that Galadriel makes him squirm. Author Reply: Yes, I suspect the idea of having to deal with someone capable of sifting through thoughts would be difficult for most of us to handle, but especially someone as insecure as Saruman is. And how Elendil's descendants could lead to the likes of Castamir is difficult to appreciate.

Linda Hoyland	Reviewed Chapter: 11 on 10/7/2006
If only Sauraman had continued with an interest in improving life on M-e,very sad how his lust for power corrupted him.Do you have a new PC now as I saw you'd been reviewing a story I enjoy on the other site? Author Reply: I can get onto FFN at times, but am still using the SIL's computer, and he likes to wipe out the system and reset it every few days, it seems. I hope to read some more there today or tomorrow, but time will tell. As for Saruman--his priorities are a bit skewed, unfortunately.

Queen Galadriel	Reviewed Chapter: 11 on 10/7/2006
Castamir was a monster! Oh, how terrible! I pity all of Gondor for having suffered under such a tyrant. And again, Saruman was too prideful. It would have served him right if he had had to suffer for it, but instead a whole nation did. And does he repent? It may be unfair, but I doubt it. He's already slipping slowly into the grasp of evil. Wretched as Saruman is becoming, I pity him. I've noticed that Gandalf seems a good deal happier than Saruman. Seems trouble is brewing all over now, and if I didn't already know the final outcome, I would be tempted to think it was going to end in some great catastrophe or cataclysm. BTW, I haven't forgotten Bob. Just been very busy with a new and very time-consuming project, a sort of "CCB memoir", and that on top of school, of course, so I haven't had any time to read anything this past week or so. I'll try to catch up soon, though. :) God bless, Galadriel Author Reply: Castamir is described in the Appendices as cruel and heartless, not only ordering the death of Eldecar's eldest son and heir but also wantonly ordering the destruction of much of the capital. This is part of the weakening of the guard on Mordor, leading to the loss of Minas Ithil to the Nazgul (had to do some corrections to a previous chapter when I realized I'd anticipated the loss of the city by a few hundred years). Yes, definitely leading up to a cataclysm of sorts. And Saruman has nothing on Gandalf--never had, in fact. Those who are capable of empathy tend to know more joy in life than those who aren't, you'll find. Good luck on this year's study and your CCB project.

Dreamflower	Reviewed Chapter: 11 on 10/6/2006
A very interesting chapter. Saruman is an idiot. True, he's an idiot savant--knowledgeable to the point of genius in certain things, but he has absolutely no understanding of the nature of sentient beings (I almost said "human nature") and his contempt for them keeps him from ever developing such an understanding. I loved the way Gandalf caught him out in the archives, when he was digging around in his staff for some more memory. Gandalf's a sharp one, and sees a lot more than he ever lets on--I love that the idea that Gandalf might have the third Elven Ring does not even begin to cross Saruman's mind yet, even though its whereabouts are in the forefront of his thoughts, LOL! His disdain for Gandalf's interest in "obscure peoples" just highlights his own lack of knowledge. This account of the Kin-strife almost made it intelligible to me. I must confess to rather skimping on this part of the Appendices. Castimir was horrible. shudder I can't imagine what things might have come to if he'd gained a Ring of Power--he was bad enough on his own! Author Reply: In the Appendices Castamir is described as cruel, and the combination of how he treated Eldecar's eldest and the tragic damage he ordered wreaked on Osgiliath itself helped lead many who'd originally supported him to fall away back to Eldecar's side. We weren't given the details on how he treated Ornendil, only that he cruelly had him killed. And it was due to the damage Castamir's folk caused that the tower by the Dome of Stars that held the palantir of the city was felled, losing the seeing stone into the Anduin below. The final blow to Castamir's popularity was when he decided to remove the capital of Gondor to the Pelargir, effectively abandoning those provinces that had supported his rival cousin to whatever predations might be sent their way, as well as turning his back on the site from which Elendil, Isildur, and Anarion ruled together. For a people that loved their own history so, that must have been a terrible blow. As for Saruman--yes, not willing to appreciate other sentient beings at all--not this one. And Gandalf, somewhat similar to the Hobbits he came so to love and admire, tended to hide many of his concerns under light words and tones, pondering on them in his own thoughts but keeping them close when exposing them might work to the detriment of others.

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